rider Posted August 28, 2023 Share Posted August 28, 2023 Greetings! I'm onto next step in the process of Project Seven. Thanks to Jim, @kayentaskier, I got an initial taste. It led to further questions and a few things that need to be figured out before I can take the plunge and drop a deposit. So, when is the next Annual Gathering of Sevens? Are the details such as location, dates, times, activities, etc. planned out? I'm interested in attending. Will be taking a road trip from Minneapolis in a Spyder. Here are what I hope to check out: - SV Chassis - Standard Floor - Full Weather Protection: Windshield, Doors - If possible, Trackday Rollcage or similar. - Though my spec will be a 420R, any version of Seven of any vintage will work. - I suspect a single car may not have all these attributes. So, probably would end up piecing together experiences from multiple cars. Request: If anyone could let me drive your Seven for an hour, will greatly appreciate. In return, will buy you nice, fat (ok, healthy!) lunch at a restaurant of your choice! Thanks. As a token of appreciation, here is a BBC documentary. I'm pretty sure most of you would have seen it, multiple times. If you haven't, it's a treat! "Caterham: Survival of the Fastest" Documentary 2003 BBC Four 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnCh Posted August 29, 2023 Share Posted August 29, 2023 If you are willing to travel to NJ: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rider Posted August 29, 2023 Author Share Posted August 29, 2023 Hello gentlemen. I'm interested in attending this event as a non-driver. Have a request, detailed here: Please take a look. Would love to find someone who could help. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rider Posted August 29, 2023 Author Share Posted August 29, 2023 Thanks, John. Definitely interested. Posted a link of this thread in there. Hopefully, someone would help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vovchandr Posted August 29, 2023 Share Posted August 29, 2023 If you attend the event, you'll have no shortage of cars to experience Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rider Posted August 29, 2023 Author Share Posted August 29, 2023 Thanks, Vovchandr. You're right; however, I would prefer to identify specific individual(s) and plan everything out before I can confirm my travel. The gathering is a track event. Everyone would be planning to be at the track, for the most part. I'll be non-driver attendee. And, I'm looking for a drive on the street. So, it would be prudent to plan the activities and times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Croc Posted September 8, 2023 Share Posted September 8, 2023 On 8/28/2023 at 10:23 PM, rider said: Hello gentlemen. I'm interested in attending this event as a non-driver. Have a request, detailed here: Please take a look. Would love to find someone who could help. Thanks. Hi Henry, I have been looking into the likely attendees at the event. As usual, everyone signs up at the last minute so its hard to predict which is annoying for you as you want some certainty to make plans. I'd like some certainty for catering so I can appreciate your request! Here is what I know today. - There will be two Caterham SV sized cars there. - One is not drivable on the road - its essentially a track car. - The other is my CSR which is not really representative of what you are shopping for as it will drive very differently to a regular de Dion 420R. Not sure its insured for you as a driver anyway given the policy wording. The majority of the cars that will be present are going to be Caterham S3 or Birkin or maybe a Ultralite. None of these were in your list of requirements. While I do own a 420R SV, it is on the wrong side of the Atlantic for your purposes! Your better option may be to make contact with Caterham dealers and their customers, similar to how you got in touch with Jim @kayentaskier I know you have been in contact with Josh at RMC but if he has not got what you want to try out then maybe try Rick at Time Machine? cheers mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBuff Posted September 8, 2023 Share Posted September 8, 2023 I believe that Greg from Time Machine(greg at timemachinesauto.com) is planning on stopping by the Jersey event but wasn't going to be driving in the event (or brining any seven). He might have some leads on someone who might be able to assist. He is facilitating my 420R sv build which should commence this month-ish. Hope to have it in the mix next season. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rider Posted September 9, 2023 Author Share Posted September 9, 2023 (edited) 7 hours ago, Croc said: .......... As usual, everyone signs up at the last minute so its hard to predict which is annoying for you as you want some certainty to make plans. I'd like some certainty for catering so I can appreciate your request! ............. None of these were in your list of requirements. While I do own a 420R SV, it is on the wrong side of the Atlantic for your purposes! Your better option may be to make contact with Caterham dealers and their customers, similar to how you got in touch with Jim @kayentaskier I know you have been in contact with Josh at RMC but if he has not got what you want to try out then maybe try Rick at Time Machine? ............. Hey Mike, thanks; really appreciate your gesture and follow up. I kinda figured I wasn't gonna find a ride even close to my target specs. I actually should know since Sevens are highly customized; and, SV isn't too popular with Track Rats! So, I sort of given up on NJ trip. And, yes, I need to be able to plan ahead. It'll a vacation and road trip; and, I absolutely need to plan ahead for time off from work. Also, I can't just show up, hoping to get lucky! So, I need to recalibrate my expectations and plans. I don't need to be able to touch and feel the specs close to my target. If I can get a full weather spec in an SV should be adequate. Or, not even that; just another short, 30-min drive in an SV with standard floor! Ok, I know I'm getting bit desperate! Yes, next step is to get in touch with a dealer. I actually planned to stop by in Denver at Josh's shop, on the way to meet up with Jim. But, Josh didn't respond to my mail asking about his availability during the planned timeline. A few days before the departure he responded stating he wasn't gonna be available! Such uncertainty doesn't help with planning a vacation and PTO! He has a pattern of poor or non-response besides. Speaking of Caterham dealers, my experience, thus far, has not been positive! I had talked to and exchanged emails with Rick at Time Machine last year. He was responsive in the beginning. He even sent me the price list. I was prepared to put down a deposit. Then he just went AWOL! Did not respond to messages! I called him again. He said he would get back; didn't. Same thing happened with the dealer in FL. Then, left voice messages with the dealers in SoCal and WA last year; no one called me back! I'm shocked! If anything, dealers working with boutique marques like Caterham should be better than, say, likes of Porsche. Not even in the same Continent! Shockingly frustrating given this is pre-sales when a sales person is at his/her best. If this is the experience during pre-sales, I dread the thought of what happens post-sales! Wish we had laws and regulations that allowed a controlled process of importing vehicles directly from foreign marques through their limited-footprint local subsidiaries! So, my options are too limited! 6 hours ago, CBuff said: I believe that Greg from Time Machine(greg at timemachinesauto.com) is planning on stopping by the Jersey event but wasn't going to be driving in the event (or brining any seven). He might have some leads on someone who might be able to assist. He is facilitating my 420R sv build which should commence this month-ish. Hope to have it in the mix next season. Thanks, CBuff. And, congratulations on your 420R! I'm jealous! You would have read my comments above regarding Time Machine, though I haven't worked with Greg. Edited September 9, 2023 by rider 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Croc Posted September 9, 2023 Share Posted September 9, 2023 7 hours ago, rider said: Speaking of Caterham dealers, my experience, thus far, has not been positive! ....no one called me back! I'm shocked! If anything, dealers working with boutique marques like Caterham should be better than, say, likes of Porsche. ...I dread the thought of what happens post-sales! I'm not going to make excuses as I have experienced it all myself as a multi-decade owner. When I was thinking of my 2010 CSR I went to visit Caterham UK as there was no one in the USA with the experience on that model. The problem with Caterham, or most of the Se7en dealers in the USA market, is that this is not their full time job. The sales flow is so small, that any dealership is a side-bar to their main business. Caterham order books are so delayed that some dealers cannot even fulfill the orders so customers walk. How does a dealer keep a business running when they are lucky to get 10 cars a year shipped by Caterham? Also the dealers are all sole individual types of workshops where they are run off their feet with work. Email/Vmail/Call responsiveness can only go so far in that situation - they run out of time in the day to get back to people. There are a lot of false interest inquiries with these cars. People think they want one and then they realize the intensity of the experience and the commitment needed to enjoy. A Se7en is a lot more hard core than a Porsche with an ownership experience model from the 1930s and should not be compared to each other. I will be curious to see if Donkervoort will fix that by asking a quarter of a million dollars for a se7en. As for aftersales, there is a reason USA7s exists. It was into the absence of the post-sales support network that it showed why a club like this is needed. We provide each other a form of support network. Its not perfect. Its limited but then so to is its cost. Its not ideal but for the committed enthusiast, they can make it work. I think your approach to talk with other owners is the right one, however, you may want to re-calibrate your expectations on ownership experience now to prevent later disappointment as, unfortunately, what you rightly critique, is a major part of the ultimate price of an admission to a se7en. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBuff Posted September 9, 2023 Share Posted September 9, 2023 +1 to @Croc comments. When I started this process over a year ago I had completely different expectations. It has been a year of delays, price increases and changes to what I thought I wanted. But also fun, excitement and learning. The engagement from the other owners has been amazing and it is a very tight knit group of enthusiasts all with a similar passion (and maybe some “misery loves company” ethos ). But with great struggle has come great reward (and I haven’t even yet received the car). I have filled this time with talking to other owners and attending track days to improve my driving skills and following this forum. As many have hinted or reminded me, at the end of the day these are very large toys and I must keep that in perspective. I do get a twinge of envy when I see someone decide on getting a car and within, what seems like days , announce they found a purchased one. But, eventually, I will have the exact car I want and plan to keep it for as long as I can get into it. Or until I decide it should be totally repowered and changed. Its about the journey not the destination. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rider Posted September 9, 2023 Author Share Posted September 9, 2023 8 hours ago, Croc said: ............. The problem with Caterham, or most of the Se7en dealers in the USA market, is that this is not their full time job. .......... How does a dealer keep a business running when they are lucky to get 10 cars a year shipped by Caterham? ........... As for aftersales, there is a reason USA7s exists. It was into the absence of the post-sales support network that it showed why a club like this is needed. ....... you may want to re-calibrate your expectations on ownership experience now to prevent later disappointment as, unfortunately, what you rightly critique, is a major part of the ultimate price of an admission to a se7en. Thanks Mike. Your explanations make perfect sense. I also got the impression, for dealers here, Seven business is just a side-kick. Caterham doesn't make it easy either! To be fair, most of the non-traditional, smaller entities seem to be whimsical, unstructured and unreliable! Ariel is no different; at least, it's US partner TMI. Italian motorcycles brands take it to next level.....! Yes, I'm glad USA7s exists! You guys are awesome. Without these forums and helpful owners, it gets a lot harder. Just this morning, I was thinking about taking a vacation to Britain. When I'm there, visit the factories of Caterham and Ariel. Take a tour if they offer and request for a test drive; check out specs, etc. I've some ideas. Will make a thread and solicit ideas and opinions. By the way, I wasn't comparing the Seven to a Porsche. Closest to Seven would be Atom, though I haven't driven one, yet. I was just comparing the purchase experience. 7 hours ago, CBuff said: ........ But, eventually, I will have the exact car I want and plan to keep it for as long as I can get into it. Or until I decide it should be totally repowered and changed. Its about the journey not the destination. Agree, CBuff. I'm enjoying the process! To buy a backpack (or, anything!), I spend weeks, researching options. Cars and Motorcycles are huge part of my life; so, you can imagine the amount of time and effort I would put in. I just don't buy anything random either. Yes, the journey is a huge part of the experience. And, to me, so is the destination! Well, I'm greedy; I want them all....! By the way, as for more power, well, going forward, an electric sedan from a marque name plate could have a 1000 hp! But, it'll never be able to replicate the driving experience of, say, a Seven. For that matter, a Seven has no parallel for that visceral, purist, mechanical and physical experience. To me, the 420 is the perfect balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Croc Posted September 9, 2023 Share Posted September 9, 2023 39 minutes ago, rider said: Just this morning, I was thinking about taking a vacation to Britain. When I'm there, visit the factories of Caterham and Ariel. Take a tour if they offer and request for a test drive; check out specs, etc. I've some ideas. Will make a thread and solicit ideas and opinions. Definitely that is the way to go. I have not been to the Caterham factory in about 10 years - even going to the showroom is very helpful to sort through the options. They are moving it so visits may be offlimits for quite a few months. The guy you want to make contact with is David Ridley, Caterham's Chief Commercial Officer. Really nice guy. Caterham are slowly expanding on their Experience offerings https://caterhamcars.com/en/experiences/overview A Caterham test drive is usually a brief affair and I bet they will not allow it with a non-UK license. They did not for me. I would seriously consider renting a Caterham while you are there. Plenty of good options, although maybe not the exact model you want. You want some good amount of time to go off and get lost on backroads. https://www.williamsautomobiles.com/caterham/hire/ https://www.sevenhire.com/ https://www.caterhamgatwick.com/hire-a-seven/ https://www.highlandcaterhamhire.com/ I have used Highland Caterham for some past explorations. They accept USA licences. Overdue to do it again. Trust me, you will learn how to use the weather gear, very quickly.... The Ariel Atom factory is worth a visit although it will not be as large as you will be expecting. If you want a contact for Ariel Atoms, then I have a US dealer contact - he owes me a favor since he has one of my cars presently. @JohnCh We may be needing thread separation here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnCh Posted September 9, 2023 Share Posted September 9, 2023 This topic migrated to the 2023 USA7s HPDE at NJMP Lightning thread and was taking it sideways so migrating the relevant posts (the 11 immediately above) back here so things are in context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rider Posted September 10, 2023 Author Share Posted September 10, 2023 This is awesome, Mike! Thanks a lot for the details; appreciate it. You're super resourceful! Yeah, visiting Britain and making a vacation out of these would be cool. Let me plan for the next summer. I can have the deposit in soon after the exploratory trip. I'm already excited about this prospect! In the meantime, I can flush out the details on dealer, reg, specs, etc. One challenge would be, RHD. I've driven a car with RHD just a few times for short distances many decades ago! Shifting with left hand is gonna be interesting. I suppose I can adjust pretty quick. And, yeah, KEEP LEFT! Touring the country in a Seven would be super cool. Need to plan about logistics such as where to stash the luggage that won't fit in the Seven, etc. I bet Caterham would have Factory Tour by next summer. My "Forever Everyday Tiny Collection" would include 420R and Atom 4R. So, would you mind sharing your Ariel contact, please? You can PM if you prefer. Thanks again, Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Croc Posted September 10, 2023 Share Posted September 10, 2023 @rider PM sent with contact details. Dont worry about RHD. Bit of concentrating and it will get all natural pretty quickly. I assume you would have a regular rental car in the UK. Excess luggage stays in there out of sight while the car can stay at the rental agency. You would likely only rent for 1-2 days anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rider Posted September 11, 2023 Author Share Posted September 11, 2023 3 hours ago, Croc said: ......... I assume you would have a regular rental car in the UK. Excess luggage stays in there out of sight while the car can stay at the rental agency. You would likely only rent for 1-2 days anyway. Good idea. Will think this through. Next spring, as I solidify the plans, will send you a message for a consult. Thanks again, Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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