Vauxhall 2L xe wet sump for the road.

[Reiver]

How many here drive their Caterham Vx 2L wet sump on the road? I've read a great deal about dry/wet/baffle/surge etc.... and the clearance issues.  Hence my questions from those experienced here.  Tried the search but you know how that goes. 

 

What is the/your clearance in inches/mm if you know.  I have about 3" so may go to a higher aspect tire like a 205/55r16 that will give me an inch more.... not concerned about the speedo.  Presently nonadjustable front shocks/springs...that could change.  

I doubt I'll dry sump it for the 12mm difference (I'm told that's the dif.) and the issues of doing that.  FYI, I will replace the baffle as the old one is 7 years old but less than a thousand miles.

Appreciate your comments/ experience on the road.

[JohnCh]

I'm in the garage so just took some measurements.  Cars were measured with me in the car.

 

Westfield with wet sump: 85mm

Caterham with dry sump: 95mm

Caterham at bellhousing (lowest point with a dry sump): 75mm

 

On a Caterham with a wet sump the bottom of the sump is level with the bottom of the bellhousing, so I imagine a wet sump version will have about 75mm clearance at my ride height.  

 

Both cars are Duratecs and run 13" wheels and both ride heights were optimized for handling at recommended height settings.  Other than speedbumps, I've never had an issue, and the Westfield has done over 14k miles of touring across some pretty vile stretches of tarmac in the middle of nowhere.  

[bsimon]

I would have to go measure actual clearance.

 

I did drive my car with a wet sump for many years with no ill effects. The CC wet sump really doesn't stick below the clutch housing that far. About the same clearance as a Cosworth dry sumped Duratec. Flywheel/clutch housing strikes are more likely than grounding the sump.

 

I run 205/50-15 and 225/50-15 tyres. (23" OD)

205/55-16 tyres are nearly 25" in diameter.

 

Keeping the foam insert in the wet sump current is important. Surge is minimal on the roadway, but longer sweeps on the track can lead to the usual wet sump surging issues.

[Reiver]

The 3" at the Vauxhall 2L sump is just shy of 3" at 75mm  so raising that a bit is, in my mind, required ...I could go 205/50r16 for almost another 1/2 in.  But, I am leaning towards the 55 aspect for the safety factor.  The 'stock' 205/45r16's are 23.3 presently.

Unexperienced territory for me presently.  Appreciate your input greatly and that is a decided help.

I don't know that the bell housing sits as low as the sump in the Vauxhall 2L as it is 'tipped' forward a bit to clear the bonnet.  Therein lies the rub (no pun) ....not my Caterham but this is the view with the 2L 20 ex.

Edited December 28, 2024 by Reiver

[bsimon]

I'll go out to the shed and measure the clearance tomorrow.

By comparing the height of the Pace dry sump pan to the old CC wet pan, we should be able to get some adjusted numbers.

 

Measure the clearance on your car from the bottom of the clutch housing to the tarmac so we're talking on the same wavelength.

 

 

[Reiver]

4 minutes ago, bsimon said:

I'll go out to the shed and measure the clearance tomorrow.

By comparing the height of the Pace dry sump pan to the old CC wet pan, we should be able to get some adjusted numbers.

 

Measure the clearance on your car from the bottom of the clutch housing to the tarmac so we're talking on the same wavelength.

 

 

Bob,  the gent selling to me still has it awaiting shipping and he measured everything for me...but I'll get that from him and thanks for your effort.  Appreciate that.

Pat

[bsimon]

Pat,

 

Did some measurements.

Clutch housing to ground is 3.25".

Front of wet sump to ground calculates out to 3"

Dry sump is 4.75" at front scavenge well/bump.

 

Looking at my old CC wet sump, there are no drag marks on the fins. AFAIK, I never struck it.

Could be just good luck though...

 

 

[Reiver]

Thanks....that is what I had measured at the sump and figured the bell housing to be higher... appreciate the effort.

[wdb]

I beat the crap out of one sump, and broke a hole in another, in two seasons of driving on rural PA roads. It wasn't due to the roads being in poor condition, although they certainly aren't great; but a Cat can dodge potholes like nothing else. No, it was suddenly finding oneself on a formerly paved road that had turned to gravel, with a heck of a crown. Or a whoop-de-doo that bottomed out the car. But the real biggie was debris -- usually a piece of tree -- in the road. 2-3/4" of clearance means you can't even think about straddling that stuff, which means an entire lane change, which isn't always an option. I don't even know what broke the last sump except that it was debris, and it was hard enough to lift the car a bit. I would guess a knot from a branch.

Edited December 28, 2024 by wdb

[Reiver]

Thanks....that's my motivation for the high aspect tires and a home made sump guard

[theDreamer]

On 12/27/2024 at 7:04 PM, Reiver said:

The 3" at the Vauxhall 2L sump is just shy of 3" at 75mm  so raising that a bit is, in my mind, required ...I could go 205/50r16 for almost another 1/2 in.  But, I am leaning towards the 55 aspect for the safety factor.  The 'stock' 205/45r16's are 23.3 presently.

Unexperienced territory for me presently.  Appreciate your input greatly and that is a decided help.

I don't know that the bell housing sits as low as the sump in the Vauxhall 2L as it is 'tipped' forward a bit to clear the bonnet.  Therein lies the rub (no pun) ....not my Caterham but this is the view with the 2L 20 ex.

That is a photo of our 1993 HPC, (Purple Reign) from the BaT auction you have there. You should have included the image from the rear. It clearly shows the tips of the sump fins below the bottom of the bell housing. There are also photos showing the sump with very minor rub marks. I can attest to the fact you should not attempt to drive over anything on the road. You must condition yourself to drive around any items you encounter. Even with higher profile sidewalls and a sump guard it’s just a good habit to get into. Also, look well down the road. If you see a dip look for telltale gouge marks in the pavement just beyond. If regular cars hit at speed you can well imagine the seven will too.

[Reiver]

Yeah, agree....I've used those pics to figure out what work I'll do underneath.  Thanks

[Reiver]

Your thoughts on this.  I am guessing the wheels are 7x16, that's what I have read so I hope that is correct.

The 205/14r is 23.3 diameter and 8 " wide
the 205/55r is  24.9 D and 8" wide
a 215/55r is 25.3 and 8.4 " wide
all will properly fit on a 16x7...the 215 will fit on a 6-7.5 rim

The 215 will give a one inch height change but would need 1" of clearance around the wings (not the indy covers) and rear wheel arch.
Do you see that as an issue?
I doubt the .4 width change would cause any problem.
Not concerned about the speedo error as that is easy to calculate.

What do you think and do you see any issues with that 215?  Road driven only.

Edited December 29, 2024 by Reiver

[MV8]

Out of those sizes, the 215-55 is the best fit for a 7 inch wide rim. It is more difficult for the tire shop to seat the bead when the rim is at the fringe of tire fitment as the tire does not put any pressure against the wheel bead unless rapidly inflated or a rubber ring tool is used. Also, if hitting a pot hole, it is less likely to have a bead come off the seat when operated at 18 or so psi due to the great side wall. The area of the side wall is a like a piston with 18psi pushing against it to keep it seated and the rim from slipping on the tire from braking or accel for a rear tire.

 

Assuming the coilovers are height adjustable, for fitting, reset and align the suspension for the needed clearance to experience the change in handling.

 

Bigger tires are heavier, so you may want to increase damping if it is adjustable.

 

The big wheels look fantastic but there are trade offs.

 

[Reiver]

There are trade offs but I think I'll go that route for the additional height with the Vaux 2L wet sump....and an additional inch will help.  The coilovers are not adjustable presently but will be. good suggestion.  An increase in damping/ rebound would be wise I suspect..... wondered if anyone had gone that route of increasing sidewall for sump height and what their thoughts were on it.

[MV8]

That's why I didn't say anything. If there is much room between the bonnet and engine, you could close that with spacers on the engine mounts then if needed, tweak the driveshaft ujoint angles by shimming the trans up. A small mirror and a $13 digital protractor would be useful for that.

 

If you search on this site, there was a skid plate that was offered around 2010 that looked well designed. Some good pics so easy to have it replicated in 1/8" plate.

[Reiver]

Those are possibilities and I've seen that plate..... one of my projects