Debugging of my Caterham begins

[mrmustang]

57 minutes ago, MV8 said:

If you saying the pump runs as soon as the battery is connected but with the key off, then it sounds like the CAT sourced T2 is configured for pump control but is miswired for power to the ecu or the pump. If the T2 had power all the time I expect you would not be able to shut it off with the key (ignition stays on as well). I'd pull the pump relay and see if the pump still runs and do the same with just the fuse pulled. If it stops, trace from the relay to power and ground on the relay control terminals. The fuse socket should not be shorted to more than one terminal of the relay socket. 

Maybe I misspoke, the pump cycles when the power (IE: cut off) is turned on, but kicks off 5-10 seconds later, car turns off normally with the regular key. Pump does not continuously run. I'll start with the basics you laid out hopefully next week, once all the parts have arrived (tuesday/wednesday time frame)..Until then the car remains stagnant, unless I get motivated to do the oil and oil filter before then.

 

Bill

Edited January 17 by mrmustang

[mrmustang]

Just a quick update as I had an hour of free time this early afternoon and I'm proud to say the original Delphi FF52 fuel filter, with it's June 2002 date code has now been excised from the car. Both the previously mentioned  Fram G3727 and the ACDelco GF952 are within a 1/16th of an inch difference in length, I decided on the FRAM G3727 as it appears to be a better built unit of the two, I'll hold on to the other just so I have a back up in the garage. Pressurized the system found no leaks, and fired the car up on the second turn of the key. I'm now waiting on the new Motorcraft SP463 Plugs to be gaped at .050 per Tom (1turbofocus) the high impedance 30lb/hr injectors, and the MSD coil and wire set. If I get time tomorrow I'll do the oil and oil filter change while I wait for everything else to arrive...Then dive in to the rest in short order and hopefully be able to take the car around the block and further.

 

Thanks to all who have assisted so far.

 

Bill

Edited January 19 by mrmustang

[mrmustang]

Oil and oil filter change done. Oil filter was found to be not that old (a K&N unit, not even finger tight), but the oil appeared quite dark, and may not have been of a synthetic blend. 5 quarts of synthetic Valvoline "advanced" 5W 20 oil and we are good to go. Brake and clutch fluids have been flushed, they were clean and clear, but at least now I know when it was last done. Filled the overflow tank of the radiator half way, but have not run the car long enough to open the thermostat to see if I'll need more or not. Really don't want to run the car till I change the injectors, plugs, wires and coil at this point. Hoping that everything else starts to trickle in to the local post office today, as I'm seeing the light at the end of the tunnel in regards to the baseline.

 

Bill

[mrmustang]

New high impedance injectors are installed

Tomorrow plugs, wires, coil

 

Then will fire up and see how it goes.

 

Wish me luck

 

Bill

[mrmustang]

Everything is here and installed but the new oxygen sensor, part came in to the local store, when I saw the bottom of the box was all taped up I insisted they open it up, good thing, as there was a beautiful, highly carboned, beat up and quite used oxygen sensor inside. Sigh, ordered a pair (one as a spare) on Ebay, still new in their packaging, should have them Wednesday or Thursday if I'm lucky. Then it's time to fire the car and see where we stand.

 

Bill

 

PS: Before you say use the one that is currently installed, I would, but the wires have been cut and spliced one too many times for my tastes.

[mrmustang]

Ok, 6pm yesterday, the oxygen sensor arrived, an AC Delco AFS-73 per the notes I have in the files, sadly the sensor came in with a female plug on it instead of a male plug, forcing me to use one of the used spares found in the travel box as a substitute/donor to use the female plug. Wired up, soldered together, and installed, I set the car down on the ground, installed the cut off switch, and turned the car over. First attempt was a fail, car sputtered, caught, then died. Cycled key and tried again, this time the car caught, sputtered to life, and stayed running. Let run for a minute before attempting to add a little throttle, which immediately caused the car to stall. Cycled key again, motor caught and continued to run. This time allowed the car to warm up until the temp gauge showed movement. A quick throttle jab with my arm (car still in the air at this time) in the footbox caused the engine to rev accordingly......Shut the car down, took it off the ramps/jack stands, removed the doors and backed the car out of the garage for the first time in weeks. A quick half lap of the neighborhood and the car was running well, no pops, no hesitation which made me a little more comfortable and I took two full laps (1.1 miles each) cycling through the first three gears without any issues. Pulled back in to back the car into the garage, felt the clutch drag a bit with the car in reverse and the pedal to the floor, popped the car out of gear and proceeded to give the pedal a few pumps which took care of this. However, makes me think I either have some air in the system, or a master or slave is possibly going out. Worse case scenario is a clutch replacement, but seeing how cleanly the clutch worked in the first 3 forward gears, I'm not inclined to tear into them just yet.

 

Thoughts?

 

As for the oxygen sensor, does anyone have a correct part number for a sensor that would have the female plug installed, I'm confident on my soldering skills, but would still prefer one that was not messed with.

Female plug on left

 

And of course, if there is no picture, it didn't happen

 

 

Thanks for following along.

 

Bill

 

 

 

[mrmustang]

On 1/16/2025 at 9:34 AM, speedwagon said:

I am following this topic as I have an old haltech (e6ex i think) that uses ms dos, and I haven't established the windows 10 will get the job done.  Thanks to all here as for me every day is a learning experience.

Wanted to follow up on this, spent a few days blowing the dust off an older Win 10 laptop with a serial port, updating software that is at least 2-4 years old took two days all by itself. I have parts incoming for the cable I need, and have downloaded an older version of DescProW software that was suggested from someone on the Cosworth support forum. I was able to get it to open in "offline" mode on my Win 11 (H2) box, but it has no serial port, hence my decision to resurrect the old Win 10 laptop, will check online mode once I have the parts needed for this interface.

 

Bill

 

PS: I miss radio shack

[slowdude]

2 hours ago, mrmustang said:

Wanted to follow up on this, spent a few days blowing the dust off an older Win 10 laptop with a serial port, updating software that is at least 2-4 years old took two days all by itself. I have parts incoming for the cable I need, and have downloaded an older version of DescProW software that was suggested from someone on the Cosworth support forum. I was able to get it to open in "offline" mode on my Win 11 (H2) box, but it has no serial port, hence my decision to resurrect the old Win 10 laptop, will check online mode once I have the parts needed for this interface.

 

Bill

 

PS: I miss radio shack

 

What ECU are you running?

 

Revilla on the UK forums did a few schematics a while back with the wiring and parts numbers. I'll try to find it. I may have uploaded it into the documents.

 

Great follow so far. Might be worth migrating to a build thread.

[mrmustang]

2 hours ago, slowdude said:

 

What ECU are you running?

 

Revilla on the UK forums did a few schematics a while back with the wiring and parts numbers. I'll try to find it. I may have uploaded it into the documents.

 

Great follow so far. Might be worth migrating to a build thread.

Pectel T2

 

 

[Vovchandr]

17 hours ago, mrmustang said:

As for the oxygen sensor, does anyone have a correct part number for a sensor that would have the female plug installed, I'm confident on my soldering skills, but would still prefer one that was not messed with.

Female plug on left

You have the plug on the left? Slightly unusual if so. 

 

Glad to hear it's being sorted out. 

 

Very amused to hear you talk about win10 as old. I only recently updated to win10 on my main desktop. In meantime my Pectel runs on win98..

[mrmustang]

47 minutes ago, Vovchandr said:

You have the plug on the left? Slightly unusual if so. 

 

Glad to hear it's being sorted out. 

 

Very amused to hear you talk about win10 as old. I only recently updated to win10 on my main desktop. In meantime my Pectel runs on win98..

Yes, I have the female plug on the left, the one shown was clearly wired incorrectly as one wire was burned completely through it's sheathing, thankfully this was in a pile of spare parts in the travel box, and not something I then needed to deal with.

Win 10, while not yet outdated, is a few revs down, so in my mind, old. Any laptop (this one 8+ years old) that cannot run Win 11 is old. 3 gig of ram, and AMD chip set, yeah, old and outdated, but should work for what I need.

 

Bill

[MV8]

Somebody put the wrong part in the right bag (very common). That gm part number (25312178) would have a female connector. Most 93-95 cadillacs use this O2.

[Vovchandr]

2 hours ago, mrmustang said:

Yes, I have the female plug on the left, the one shown was clearly wired incorrectly as one wire was burned completely through it's sheathing, thankfully this was in a pile of spare parts in the travel box, and not something I then needed to deal with.

Win 10, while not yet outdated, is a few revs down, so in my mind, old. Any laptop (this one 8+ years old) that cannot run Win 11 is old. 3 gig of ram, and AMD chip set, yeah, old and outdated, but should work for what I need.

 

Bill

 

Gotcha. For what it's worth I'm not entirely sure Pectel even does open loop vs closed loop. It might but I haven't found it and my car runs the same with upstream O2 as y does without it. 

 

With that said I still replaced mine with a new unit while troubleshooting. 

 

@catsv7 is knowledgeable on this matter and might have an insight. 

 

Edited February 1 by Vovchandr

[mrmustang]

2 hours ago, MV8 said:

Somebody put the wrong part in the right bag (very common). That gm part number (25312178) would have a female connector. Most 93-95 cadillacs use this O2.

Sadly, I have two identical from that seller, both in sealed factory bags. I'll swing by the local Chevy dealer and talk to their parts guy.

 

Thanks for the sanity check.

 

Bill

[mrmustang]

2 hours ago, Vovchandr said:

 

Gotcha. For what it's worth I'm not entirely sure Pectel even does open loop vs closed loop. It might but I haven't found it and my car runs the same with upstream O2 as y does without it. 

 

With that said I still replaced mine with a new unit while troubleshooting. 

 

@catsv7 is knowledgeable on this matter and might have an insight. 

 

I thought it was best to play it safe given how carboned up the plugs and older, already replaced oxygen sensor was. No cold idle set up on the car, #3 throttle plate rattles a bit, and is set slightly open so it starts I assume, no real pull from 1,2,4 until throttle is given and their respective throttle plates open. Going to need someone to sit in the car and work the throttle so I can take measurements to try and balance them. I did air up the 5 year old Pirelli cinturato tires this AM (11-12.5lbs cold) to 26psi and went for a nice 5 mile loop. Car ran great, my next step is to take it out again for a longer drive and to top off the tank with some 93 octane, maybe some throttle/engine cleaner additive just to try and clean out the rest of the combustion chamber.

 

Bill