Tall w/clown feet: Caterham SV vs. Birkin?

[e043656]

6'3", 180 lbs, 34" waist, size 13 shoes (but not against putting on my size 12 driving "booties" which seem to be about like size 11 tennis shoes).

 

I see in the Birkin manual that the pedals are somewhat configurable, and have been told the Birkin pedal box has more room than a non-SV Caterham.

 

I have never sat in a Caterham SV.

 

Does anyone have any "fit" opinions or guidance?

[powderbrake]

option1) Have feet surgically reduced in size to size 9B

 

Sorry , couldn't resist that softball you tossed.

 

First, welcome to the USA7s forum. I am sure that some Birkin or Caterham owners will have a better qualified response as to foot room.

 

The SV's are a bit larger in the footwell, as are the Stalkers and Ultralites. You should at least sit in some of the various makes and models to assess how well you fit.

[BirkinBernie]

I'm 6'4", 225 lbs and have narrow size 13 feet. I have a 2000 Birkin, and while I can drive it (carefully) in sneakers, it works just fine in narrow sole racing shoes. Yes, the Birkin pedal assembly is very adjustable, and unless your feet are very wide you should be able to find a workable arrangement. Oh, and my seats are custom made upholstered pads that sit in the chassis - gained me a bit of width and leg room vs a standard type seat. Quite comfy - I've gone as far as 400 miles in a day and the only real fatigue was from the wind.

 

I've never driven an SV, but I sat in one once and was very impressed with the foot room. I am sure I could easily drive one in street shoes. So, try different Se7ens on for size. If I can fit in one, you should have no trouble at all. If you can make it to the Se7ens Festival in Fort Worth in May there should be a selection of Se7ens to look at there.

 

Bernie

[Croc]

I had the same concern when I was car hunting - so I deliberately drove the cars with different types of shoes. I have a little more heft in the waist (ok...a lot more..:blush:) and a very wide size 13. What I found is that the Birkin was easy to adjust the pedal box to drive in regular shoes if I was careful - I tried both with trainers and dress shoes. if I did not pay attention I could get two pedals at once. In narrow sole moccasins I had no issues - very easy.

 

In the SV there is more room again. Again I can drive in regular trainers and dress shoes without an issues - just need to careful - but I prefer the narrow sole driving shoe.

 

One thing to look out for is the ability to slide your left foot behind the clutch pedal on long trips so you are not holding it at an unnatural angle. For me this is a godsend on long highway stretches. In the birkin, we could not get the pedal box to adjust far enough to do this in the narrow sole driving moccasin. I know others do this but they must have smaller feet. However, no problems in the SV with the driving shoe and it does not have the same design flexibility that the Birkin has with its pedal box - so there is obviously more usable space in the SV down there. I cannot perform this trick in anything but the narrow sole driving shoe

[BruceBowker]

This all brings up a question - what driving shoes do any of you like best?

 

Bruce

[Ian7]

For extra foot room, consider reshaping the floor under your heels to drop it down an inch or so by cutting out the flat piece and replacing it with a tray. Tall guys do a similar thing under their seats to lower its mountings.

 

For shoes, buy race boots. The key is in the specific heel shaping of the boot for cars like ours where legs are almost parallel to the ground. The narrowness is also a bonus.

[Taber10]

e043656,

 

Welcome to our group.

 

I am 6'3, and have narrow Size 12 shoes. When I first "jumped" into a Caterham, in the '70s, I had to extracate myself, since I had gotten in while wearing a pair of "street" boots, I think we called them "Dingos" or something.

 

However, I have driven my SV in all sorts of street and dress shoes, including Columbia hiking boots, with no problem. On long trips, I also can slip my left foot behind the pedals, although I try not to make a habit of it. I don't own any racing shoes, but get into the SV with whatever I'm wearing for those trips to the Post Office, gas station, etc. that I'm always looking for. I don't have the lowered floor pan.

 

Good luck for your search.

 

Taber

[e043656]

OK, that helps with the clown feet issue, thanks everyone.

 

Bernie's avatar has me thinking of another post I saw regarding lowering floors and coming eye-to-eye with the windshield header. It sounds as this is another potential difference in the SV? Or only in the case of lowered floors?

 

My race booties are cheap RJS hightops ... they are fine but style-less and too thin-soled for walking. I bought them mainly because I could try them on at the local speed shop.

 

I will poke around in the Events sections and see if there are any get togethers near me.

[rnr]

6'1", 185 lbs with size 14 feet I have plenty of room inside my Ultralite. Are you looking to buy used or build a new car?

[bsimon]

regarding lowering floors and coming eye-to-eye with the windshield header.

 

FWIW...The SV windscreen is an inch or so taller than the S3.

[Spaz]

6'4" - 200 lbs on the nose, size 10 shoes. I love my Puma Speed Cats.

 

http://www.zappos.com/images/569/7148569/985-105715-p.jpg

[supersportsp]

6'2", 202, 34 waist and size 12's here. I fit in my standard chassis Caterham, but it is tight. I drove several standard chassis cars as well as an SV and sat in a Westfield before buying mine.

 

To me, easily the biggest dimensional difference between a standard and SV chassis is footwell space. I didn't note the cockpit width as much and the steering wheel to thigh clearance seemed largely unchanged.

 

I can get away with Van's in my car without feeling like I am endangering myself. Narrower shoes will help. Even in an SV, you aren't going to want to wear anything of a wider profile.

 

You should be fine length wise unless you have really long legs in a standard car. What you want to be careful of is thigh to steering clearance. Two of the three standard cars I drove (and also the SV to an extent) I had issues with this which made driving uncomfortable and had me worried about accident avoidance etc. Smaller steering wheels (flat bottom as well), lowered or lower profile seats and dropping the floor an inch can help here.

[e043656]

6'1", 185 lbs with size 14 feet I have plenty of room inside my Ultralite. Are you looking to buy used or build a new car?

 

I could and would like to build one ... but not at a "too significant" cost disadvantage. My problem is I change my mind on what car to buy/build depending on the day.

 

I can do anything on a Miata with my eyes closed but I don't really prefer the look of the Westfield.

 

I like the idea of a $1500 210HP Duratec more than I like the idea of any motor other than a Miata motor. (+ for Birkin or newer Caterham?)

 

I really like the more classic looks of the Caterham and Birkin. I also like the idea of the IRS in the new Birkin.

 

The thing I'm missing more than anything is driving a few different variants.

 

I've wanted one for 15 years, and I've finally decided Miatas are overweight and too floaty

[Croc]

I've finally decided Miatas are overweight and too floaty

 

oops! I guess this will kick off the Hank and Skip niggling act again!

[Arya Ebrahimi]

6'3", 180 lbs, 34" waist, size 13 shoes

 

You just described me to a T. The only solution for me to be able to drive Mazda's Rotus was to break out the sawzall and reconfigure the entire cockpit. It turned out to be more of an undertaking than either of us imagined, but in the end it was worth it(at least for me :leaving: ).

[scannon]

 

I like the idea of a $1500 210HP Duratec more than I like the idea of any motor other than a Miata motor. (+ for Birkin or newer Caterham?)

 

I really like the more classic looks of the Caterham and Birkin. I also like the idea of the IRS in the new Birkin.

 

I've wanted one for 15 years, and I've finally decided Miatas are overweight and too floaty

 

Miata engines in Caterhams are doable, click on the link in my signature. I think there is a Birkin out there somewhere with a Miata engine. There is also a Miata engine in a WCM Ultralite.

 

My Miata felt like a Buick with bad shocks after I drove Caterham USA's demo SV on the track. Immediately after driving the SV I took the dealer for a session in the Miata and promptly had one of the worst off track excursions ever (excluding the infamous outhouse incident) in the car.

 

The Miata has adjustable coil overs, adjustable shocks and sways and lots of chassis bracing along with a turbo but once I drove the SV I had to have one. I still like Miatas, I have three of them at the moment.

[e043656]

Skip,

 

I had actually stumbled onto your car somewhere on the net before you posted that link... I love the concept, but not sure I am up for the fabrication.

 

How is the gearing with the Miata stuff? Is the Link EFI good enough?

[scannon]

The fabrication of the motor mounts is quite straight forward. I took a look at the Caterham engine mount system for the Zetec, used the Caterham rubber mount pads and built the rest of it to fit the Miata engine.

 

It took some trial and error to determine how much material had to come off the transmission but I have saved the sacrificial tailshaft and you are welcome to borrow it to have one machined from it if you go that way.

 

The only other difficult part was the wiring and that requires a lot of time but not necessarily a lot of skill.

 

The Link ECU worked well, but after a year I replaced it with a more modern Hydra Nemesis which required further rewiring. With no other changes to the car the chassis dyno showed a 61 HP gain and a similar gain in torque. It has many more features whereas the Link was developed to the max with its outdated electronics.

 

My car has the Caterham 3.9:1 differential (with a Quaiffe LSD) and with the Miata engine and transmission it works very well. I'm sure with a 3.6:1 diff it would cruise nicer and probably a little better top speed I doubt I will bother making the change.

 

If you ever get to the Denver area, look me up and we will do a ride/drive in the car. With 1,350 lb and 301 RWHP I think you will find the car entertaining and the acceleration adequate for most needs.

[e043656]

Skip,

 

Very interesting! I have rebuilt many Miata transmissions (6 this winter alone) and wiring harness work and EFI tuning is within my expertise as well. What I am terrible at is bracket-making, welding, bodywork. Of course I can grind a tailshaft as well as anyone, though.

 

Perhaps a Miata drivetrain is not as much a stretch as I thought, especially if I can copy your hard work and learn from your experience.

 

I see you have used the 1999-2000 motor. How did you handle all the intake, exhaust, and turbo plumbing?

 

It would seem to me a 1994-1997 mill might be easier to fit and simpler ... any feelings on that?

 

FYI, this is where I first ran into your project: http://www.cardomain.com/ride/636168/10/

[scannon]

I'd be happy to pass on any knowledge I have. I found it to be a fun project and not especially difficult.

 

I had no idea if a Miata engine would fit in the engine compartment before I started. You can follow the test fitment of the mocked up engine in that cardomain site.

 

I used the stock '00 Miata intake manifold, a Flyin Miata turbo and manifold and the charge side plumbing is just exhaust tubing with a couple of nipples welded on between the intercooler and the throttle body. All the bends are Samco hoses as is the reducer between the throttle body and I/C pipe.

 

The exhaust was fabricated to my design (after consulting with Corky Bell) by a local hot rod shop that builds exhaust systems and roll bars with a big assed mandrel tubing bender. The whole exhaust system ran about $1,000 for parts and labor, all in stainless steel.

 

I don't think you would gain anything using the earlier engine. Besides you gain about 15 HP using the later engine which has a much better head on it.

 

Bracketry is quite simple to build if you have the combo shear/brake/roller tool. I used a belt sander to round corners and any special shapes. I often made up two or three different brackets before I had what I wanted. I buy scrap ali from a recycler so not much is lost if I scrap a few pieces. For a few of the pieces I made card stock templates to get angles and fit the way I wanted.

 

I don't think my engine with the turbo would fit in the standard Caterham engine bay.