Kitcat Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 I will be interested in seeing how the advertised hp specs for your engines compare to any chassis dyno results. As I recall folks w/"210 hp" engines were seeing 145 hp on the chassis dyno. On the other hand, at a track day 2 years ago, I watched a CSR 260 stay on a new 'Vette's bumper down a long straight, something unheard of in my car. Also, the CSR package is abt $15K less than the standard (and cruder) Superlight 500. Any idea why? Both are minus engine & transmission so that's not it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blubarisax Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 The R500 gets you some neet extras like thinner AL body pannels, carbon leather boot cover. But I think the real difference is all the engine extras (forged pistons/rods, cams, roller intake) are included in the R500 kit and with the CSR you pay for that when you buy the engine. For the R500 you just need to buy a basic Duratec for 3K remanufactured. Though I don't know the exact price of the Cosworth 260 motor, I bet the total cost of a CSR ends up being more than an R500. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Croc Posted January 24, 2011 Author Share Posted January 24, 2011 The R500 gets you some neet extras like thinner AL body pannels, carbon leather boot cover. But I think the real difference is all the engine extras (forged pistons/rods, cams, roller intake) are included in the R500 kit and with the CSR you pay for that when you buy the engine. For the R500 you just need to buy a basic Duratec for 3K remanufactured. Though I don't know the exact price of the Cosworth 260 motor, I bet the total cost of a CSR ends up being more than an R500. You are right and wrong. The basic pricing strategy as you describe is correct. The engine ancilliary package is within the R500 kit price and you only buy a bare engine and a gearbox. Now a Caterham 6spd gearbox is UK Pounds 2550 plus shipping ($350?) to US. Running it through my pricing model from my car you come up with: R500 superlight kit on Caterham USA is $67320 plus bare engine $3k plus Caterham 6spd box $4250 and shipping $350 is $74920 CSR kit at $46125 plus engine and geabox and other items to match the R500 kit spec on Cat USA (e.g metallic paint at $2435, etc) prices out at approximately $74100 CSR Superlight kit at $50250 plus engine and gearbox and other items to match R500 spec prices out at approximately $78000 Give or take a couple of hundred dollars in the exchnage rate at time of engine and gearbox purchase then the R500 is pretty close to a regular CSR in pricing. The CSR Superlight adds a premium over those two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 (edited) I'd be curious to know what Caterham does to get from 250 to 260. I heard or read somewhere that the difference is in the fuel; that a Duratec making 260 bhp on U.K. premium pump gas (pump petrol ) will make around 250 bhp on U.S.A. premium pump gas. So while the engines being sold as CSR 260 engines in the U.K. are functionally the same spec as the engines Cosworth Racing in Torrance, California sells as 250 bhp-spec Duratecs, the output varies based on the fuel. Or so I heard. Edited January 24, 2011 by Sean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blubarisax Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 VP 116 Race Gas here I come! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 Hey Croc and blubarisax, Are your engines coming from California or England? Just curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blubarisax Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 Mine is coming from Torrance CA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blubarisax Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 Mine is coming from Torrance CA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 Mine also came from Torrance, but has the single-housing roller barrel assembly, unlike Croc's two housings. http://i321.photobucket.com/albums/nn384/BBL-Sean/2pt3cos1.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blubarisax Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 (edited) Makes me drool just to look at your motor. Questions abound... What specs did you get? What car did you put it in? Any issues you had to deal with? How was the ECU mapping? Did you have to dyno the car or use the standard maps? What did you use for a fuel pump/pressure regulator/tank? What Gearbox did you mate to? I keep going back and forth on the 14:1 CR to get the 295-300 HP vs. 13:1 for 280 HP; would love the power, but with 14:1 race gas is mandatory and with 13:1 premium pump in a pinch is OK if you take it easy. I have a good source for VP not far away, but I worry about getting stuck somewhere. Looking forward to hearing your story... Karl Edited January 25, 2011 by blubarisax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelD Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Why is this Pkg so different in pricing? Am I missing something? It is currently listed on Caterham USA Available Now: $67,320.00 Track oriented specification for extreme performance Wide-track suspension, big brake package and carbon-fiber parts standard 263bhp 2.0L Caterham Powertrain Duratec engine package Caterham 7 Superlight R500 "Duratec 263" Engine ancillary package Limited-slip differential Dry sump system Launch control system DeDion rear suspension Superlight suspension (wide-track front wishbones, adjustable spring platforms, Watts linkage rear suspension and uprated adjustable rear anti-roll bar) Aero cross-section front wishbones Ventilated front discs & 4 pot calipers 13x6" front & 13x8" rear wheels with Avon CR500 tires Full screen & weather equipment Tonneau cover Carbon leather boot cover Black package (black headlight bowls, windscreen frame exhaust guard, carbon rear wing protectors and carbon sill protectors) Aero filler cap – black Carbon nose cone, front and rear wings CSR style nose cone with winglets Black powder coated interior Carbon dash Stack dashboard display Bespoke R500 switchgear Push button start ACES change up lights Keyless ignition with immobilizer Carbon/Kevlar race seats Momo steering wheel w/ quick release column Race 4 point harnesses Uprated master cylinder Large bore, polished stainless steel exhaust system Krypton Green metallic paint Black R500 decal kit New kit: 0 miles Contact: Jon 303.765.0247 Available now: $67,320.00 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blubarisax Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 (edited) The car you list has a number of options beyond the 61K base R500...paint, data logging stack, launch control, weather gear and BAM! you are at 67K. Add in another 3K for the motor and and 4K for the 6-Spd and you are at 74K. It would take a superhuman not to want to add a few extras onto a new build to make the car his/her own... I hear this kit may be fortunate enough to have found its "forever home" Edited January 25, 2011 by blubarisax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mondo Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 If your getting weather gear etc... you probably plan on some road miles. Also, if you ever want to sale (and upgrade again) it would be better to have a car that can run on premium. You have us all drooling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Croc Posted January 25, 2011 Author Share Posted January 25, 2011 Makes me drool just to look at your motor. Questions abound... What Gearbox did you mate to? I keep going back and forth on the 14:1 CR to get the 295-300 HP vs. 13:1 for 280 HP; would love the power, but with 14:1 race gas is mandatory and with 13:1 premium pump in a pinch is OK if you take it easy. I have a good source for VP not far away, but I worry about getting stuck somewhere. I have faith he did not mate with his gearbox....:jester: My suggestion is compromise on the CR. You want a track and road hybrid. The extra compression may be just nice on the track but the incremental benefit it gives you is minimal. If it were my trade off I would aim to get an engine that can be run on premium and is still fun on the road without being too peaky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Croc Posted January 25, 2011 Author Share Posted January 25, 2011 I hear this kit may be fortunate enough to have found its "forever home" Yep heading east into NY area if the rumors are true.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellowss7 Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Great, another big HP beast for the trackday maybe? Looks like I'll be waving you guys by non stop. :willy_nilly: Hard to believe that when I ordered mine, it was at the time the top spec Caterham the Superlight R with 190+ hp. Soon after they came out with the Kseries R500 at 243hp. Now I'd need 260-280 hp to keep up with you guys. Should be fun trying. :party: Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitcat Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Tom: The great thing about our underpowered cars is that we have an excuse for being slow. And, since you have 50% more more hp than me, I have the best excuse of all! Mike M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellowss7 Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Mike, if we drive two abreast we could hold them off for a few laps, and because they have those HUGE Sumo Versions, there is no way that they will get by. :rofl: Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blubarisax Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 you are forgetting about our secret weapon is the new Kripton(ite) Green R500 (s3) who will just slip right between you you and open up a gap. (I hope the new owner makes an announcement soon) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskossie Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 I have the same engine in my S3 Seven as Sean has in his; both sourced from Cosworth in Torrance, both 250 hp US-spec 2.3 liter Duratecs. I was worried about driving through northern BC and Yukon Territory last August, with the unavailability of premium (91+ octane) fuel at every fill-up. At first, I tried to stretch things by filling up before I had to, so that I was running on a 50/50 mix of last stop's premium, and whatever as available. I didn't notice any drivability problems. Finally, a couple of times I had to fill up on pure regular gas -- but still no drivability problems: no bucking, running-on, knocking, etc. I was careful not to put my boot in the throttle, just to reduce possible strain on the engine, but I was impressed with the way this fairly high-strung motor handled less-than-recommended fuel. I'm not so sure that a 12:1 or 13:1 compression ratio would have done as well. The attached photo illustrates the problem -- you take what you can get, or you run dry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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