ottocycle Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 Karl, Ditto to what the other members said. I winced when I saw the photo but as others have said, 'glass and steel can be repaired or replaced, I am glad you are OK. You have the right attitude too and hopefully we will meet at NJMP again this June. I am looking forward to running with everyone again. I think I can presume for everyone and say that if you need help locating parts let us know. This network might help speed up their aquisition. Take a long hot soak in the tub. Dermot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeanG Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 Like the other I'm glad that you are OK. Relax, count your blessings and rebuild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supersportsp Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 Ugh. Nothing worse than the sound of crunching vehicle. I am sure once you got over the immediate adrenaline of the 'oh sh!t I am heading for the wall' moment you were probably looking at your beat up little orange beast and your heart went crashing into your stomach about as hard as your actual hit. Good to see your okay and that the Caterham survived largely intact and you didn't roll or hit sideways. I too would chalk this up to cold tires. When I loaded your video and saw it was only about 1:40 long and you were just pulling out of the pits at the beginning I figured that was probably a root cause. With our cars being so light, getting heat in the tires is really critical and difficult, especially on a cool day. You lived and have learned though, that is the most important lesson from the day. Good to know you had on all the safety gear. Having gone down three times on motorcycles, I know the value of having the right gear on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelD Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 Ouch! Glad you are OK. Mike M just sent me the notice. Cold tires are just no fun. If the frame is straight, call Caterham UK and have them FedEx the parts. I doesn't cost much more and you have them in two days. Good to hear you hope to make Summit Point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
athens7 Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 I'm glad you are all right. While my heart breaks for your car, you were using it as it was intended, to your great credit. I hope the damage and cost is as limited as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blubarisax Posted April 8, 2012 Author Share Posted April 8, 2012 (edited) Hey guys, thanks for all the support, it means a lot to me. I won't know about the frame till tomorrow when they get it up on a lift. It was about 62 at the time of the accident, but it had just turned cloudy. The track was still fairly warm, but it was my first lap on the last run of the day. My wife was there and tried to talk me into moving down a run group so we could leave early. Lime Rock is a beautiful track, set in the hills of western CT, too bad there is so little run off on a couple of tricky corners. Edited April 15, 2012 by blubarisax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solder_guy Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 Glad you are OK .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 Does that bump affect a lot of other cars with cold tires (seven or not)? It seems strange to have a bump right there, but I'm not familiar with that track at all. You would think they could have planed out the peak of the hill down a bit to lessen the bump. When in doubt, blame it on the paving crew. We do it all the time for Louisiana roads! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Hill Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 Hey Karl I have not yet used the control arms or shocks I bought from you. If they would be of any use just holler. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLRracer Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 Bad luck on the bumpy bumpy! Whenever I crashed at the track my buddies told my wife I was okay because I only hit my head and therefore couldn't be injured! I have had a couple of get-offs like yours early in a session and invariably they were because my tires were not warmed up enough yet. I noticed you were on pit lane just before this happened, did you have the tire warmers on? Was this right at the beginning of the session as it appeared or was it a stop and go through the pits? Anywho - bad luck again, but any crash you can bore your friends in a bar with is a great crash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Croc Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 Does that bump affect a lot of other cars with cold tires (seven or not)? It seems strange to have a bump right there, but I'm not familiar with that track at all. You would think they could have planed out the peak of the hill down a bit to lessen the bump. When in doubt, blame it on the paving crew. We do it all the time for Louisiana roads! Lime Rock is an historic circuit built for another age. It has a lovely layout but it have little run off areas, quite bumpy and is never forgiving of mistakes. Boxologist of this wise forum once cautioned me about driving there and after checking it out in an Infiniti sedan I decided I would keep away as I do not trust myself that much. At the point where Karl decided to exit stage right, the track actually grades across down left to right. That would have been a factor as the cars get light over the hump the driver side rear would have more traction than the passenger side rear. Combine with cold fronts and the engine coming on cam at that point of the hump sadly made for a bad mix that caught Karl out. Given the speed of how it happened I doubt many people on this forum could have caught and saved the car once it snapped right. I dont believe I could have. Karl - if you need a body to help out let me know? I am a useless mechanic but I do know how to dispense beer, margaritas, and other useful drinks in a situation like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blubarisax Posted April 8, 2012 Author Share Posted April 8, 2012 (edited) The three story rise and crest is a big part of the charachter of the track. I am convinced I had two issues going on, too much power vs. weight at the crest and cold tires. I should have used tire warmers, lol, who knew. I had been off the track between sessions for about an hour. People go off her enough that they built a tire wall a few years back. I'm glad it was not Armco. I will say that the neck restraints really worked well. Not even a tinge of stiffness. I just started using the Simpson Safety Solutions Hybrid device last weekend and I'm glad I had it on. Here is what Trackpedia has to say about this turn: Turn #5 (The Up Hill) Limerock has 2 corners where you can do real damage to your car - the Up Hill is one, the Down Hill is the other. It is also one of those corners that you will never forget once you have driven the track as you don't often go straight up a small ski hill at full throttle. To set up the corner, you are coming into the Up Hill at full throttle (115mph in 3rd/4th) and you have to brake pretty good on a bumpy track surface (pre-resurface). The safest way to take the Up Hill is to late apex and aim your front left tires just left of track center as you crest the hill. Slighty faster is mid apex with your right side wheels being midtrack as you crest the hill - this position feels good, safe and fast and you have huge grip from the hill's compression - you will trackout with a few feet to spare. The fastest line is a mid / mid/early apex with early braking completed to set up a near WOT uphill attack with additional compression / grip from the hill - this line may also require an additional steering input after the apex to straighten the car out before you crest the hill as the earlier apex and additional speed push you further left - there is less room for error here as once you crest the hill you will be fully track left. NOTE - There is really only one rule that you must follow on this turn, when you 'crest the hill', you 'MUST HAVE THE WHEEL STRAIGHT'. As you pick up speed, you will have enough speed to unload the rear springs (front also if you are extremely fast) and 'get air' for at least a fraction of a second. If and when you do this, and the wheel is not 'STRAIGHT', you will likely crash as you will land not straight and the car will likely snap in one direction or the other depending on the car's rotation and steering angle - most likely the front will hook and you will go straight right into a wall. If the only thing you say to yourself on this track is 'STRAIGHT WHEEL OVER THE HILL' you will be fine. (my wheels felt and looked straight, but may well have been off just enough to hook...) Strategy on this turn is then to late apex and leave yourself lots of room / time on trackout to have your hands straight and then to slowly earlier and earlier apex until you have still given yourself at least a foot or so when you land on the left to save your bacon. It you don't care about your car and are pushing for that last 1/10th you will have to be fully left when you land with absolutely straight hands. Edited April 9, 2012 by blubarisax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusaNostra Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 (edited) @ 0.58 you can hear the rpm raised up -- seems you hit a bump and lost traction. One of the coldest town in connecticut is limerock. The track heave a lot during winter. They are bumpy, narrow and unforgiving track. At the bridge before entering the straight way is my nemesis. Edited April 9, 2012 by BusaNostra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blubarisax Posted April 9, 2012 Author Share Posted April 9, 2012 Lime Rock is an historic circuit built for another age. It has a lovely layout but it have little run off areas, quite bumpy and is never forgiving of mistakes. Boxologist of this wise forum once cautioned me about driving there and after checking it out in an Infiniti sedan I decided I would keep away as I do not trust myself that much. At the point where Karl decided to exit stage right, the track actually grades across down left to right. That would have been a factor as the cars get light over the hump the driver side rear would have more traction than the passenger side rear. Combine with cold fronts and the engine coming on cam at that point of the hump sadly made for a bad mix that caught Karl out. Given the speed of how it happened I doubt many people on this forum could have caught and saved the car once it snapped right. I dont believe I could have. Karl - if you need a body to help out let me know? I am a useless mechanic but I do know how to dispense beer, margaritas, and other useful drinks in a situation like this. Mike, I'll definitely use your help with the beer! I have taken the car to Radical Motorsports of NJ. They installed my front suspension and repaired Ron's rear fender. Before long we may have our own trained Caterham shop if I keep this up. As I replay the spin in my mind, it's amazing how fast this one felt compared to my offs at NJMP last weekend in the SCCA Spec Racers. I was already left on the track and was onto the grass between the main track and the chicane nearly instantly. The Sat Nav from the Smarty Cam makes it look like I sped up in the spin. The gear is calculated from the RPM vs. speed. I don't recall shifting down to third to take the hill, but I may have. The lower gear/higher revs could have also contributed. Or, I could have been getting wheel spin even before cresting the hill... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blubarisax Posted April 9, 2012 Author Share Posted April 9, 2012 (edited) @ 0.58 you can hear the rpm raised up -- seems you hit a bump and lost traction. One of the coldest town in connecticut is limerock. The track heave a lot during cold weather. They are bumpy, narrow and unforgiving track. While I plan to stick to other tracks in the future, Lime Rock has its charm. It was there where I was inspired to get a Caterham, watching a pair of Lotus 7s duke it out in a historic race over Labor Day a few years back. I did not get a chance to walk the track after my spin, but plan to do so at a car show on the track over Memorial Day. I definitely had some major wheel spin as seen in the quick rise in RPM... Edited April 9, 2012 by blubarisax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86Sebring Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 Glad you're ok. I've been to LRP many times, mostly to watch the fall vintage events and seen crashes in that same spot before. We usually park a little bit further up just before the next turn and watch from there. good luck and hope you're back on the road soon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86Sebring Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 NOTE - There is really only one rule that you must follow on this turn, when you 'crest the hill', you 'MUST HAVE THE WHEEL STRAIGHT'. As you pick up speed, you will have enough speed to unload the rear springs (front also if you are extremely fast) and 'get air' for at least a fraction of a second. If and when you do this, and the wheel is not 'STRAIGHT', you will likely crash as you will land not straight and the car will likely snap in one direction or the other depending on the car's rotation and steering angle - most likely the front will hook and you will go straight right into a wall. If the only thing you say to yourself on this track is 'STRAIGHT WHEEL OVER THE HILL' you will be fine. Strategy on this turn is then to late apex and leave yourself lots of room / time on trackout to have your hands straight and then to slowly earlier and earlier apex until you have still given yourself at least a foot or so when you land on the left to save your bacon. It you don't care about your car and are pushing for that last 1/10th you will have to be fully left when you land with absolutely straight hands. Too bad we can't see your hands on the steering wheel, but I would almost bet the wheels weren't straight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twobone Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 Glad to hear you are OK. Hope you get her back in fighting shape soon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redgoose Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 damn, i am shocked, just never thought this would happen on a track day without racing..just shows how new i am to this game..really glad your ok karl and i feel awful for your car..it is the best 7..also, great attitude with thumbs up..i would have been crazed..get back soon.. ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryR Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 Karl - Glad to hear there is no "day-after" damage to you as you seemed good at the track. The car in front of you was mine, with my wife driving in the Yellow group (I instruct and run in Red). Having run 1000's of DE and Racing laps at Limerock I can offer a couple things, please take them for what they cost.. nothing! 1. You were running a very light car on Michelin slicks. They take a couple laps to get anywhere near maximum grip under the best of circumstances. 2. You came over the peak of the hill under power in a light/powerful car while still giving some steering input. If the wheels were straight or even better, had some counter-steer applied you may have steered out of it. In my car 185HP/2700LB I automatically have counter-steer input at every crest of that hill at around 90 MPH. 3. You appear to have lifted off throttle the moment the rear started to go, trailing throttle oversteer may have added to your predicament. Staying at least neutral on the throttle may have helped. Here's to you getting your beautiful car back together soon and incident free track days! Best, Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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