R&T article on Caterham's future

[seschm1234]

http://www.roadandtrack.com/features/web-originals/caterham-boss-plans-new-model-blitz?src=email

[Toyotus 7]

Sounds promising, apart from the cross-over stuff. Does anyone have any further information on the 660cc that Caterham was contemplating? It's not mentioned here, other than perhaps hinted at in the discussion of city cars.

[seschm1234]

Here is a bit more info

http://www.roadandtrack.com/go/news/new-cars/caterham-seven-160?click=main_sr

[bigdog]

Personally as a newby to se7ens. I don't care for the direction of Caterham. Like most manufactures. They (Caterham) have been moving (price-wise) very up market. Seems once upon a time. A guy could order a kit for a reasonable cost and build a nice light weight sports car.

 

To be honest. Caterhams have become a toy for the rather well off. If you want a light weight sports car that doesn't break the bank (like me). One needs to look at used Caterhams. (or other variants of the "7") As the new ones are very much over priced. $30K then YOU have to provide the engine and trans? Holy crap!

[MoBoost]

Caterham cars have never been inexpensive. Inflated to current value, my car (built in 1985) would be more than $39,000 today. Not cheap, but reasonable for the performance.

[Exigent]

If you are saying it would equate to $39k today that really underlines BigDog's point. I looked at a new R300 last weekend - $67k. Clearly the prices have far outpaced inflation.

[IDreamOfChapman]

An R300 isn't a basic kit however. I think the point is that for a basic car (a Caterham Classic) the price has actually maintained a steady state. I don't see anything wrong with them also offering more costly options for people who want more performance out of the box.

[Bruce K]

An R300 isn't a basic kit however. I think the point is that for a basic car (a Caterham Classic) the price has actually maintained a steady state. I don't see anything wrong with them also offering more costly options for people who want more performance out of the box.

I'm with Underdog and Exigent (sounds like a couple of pro wrestlers!) I've owned 2 Caterhams, both used - they're awesome sporters. But if you want value AND performance, and must purchase new, convince Lorren (owner of World Class Motorsports) to build you an S2K. Caterham has never had a motor to touch the Honda S2000, and I've owned a 2-liter Cosworth-powered Caterham. There's as much cockpit room in the S2K as in the new CSR Caterham, and most driveline parts are available at the generic corner auto parts store. Dealer specific parts can be obtained at Honda or Subaru dealerships, and the Tilton / Wilwood brake and pedal parts can be ordered online at Summit and dozens of other domestic sources. Once I paid about $6,000 for a Cosworth BLOCK for a Caterham. I could buy TWO used Honda S2000 DRIVETRAINS for that kind of dough. Contact Lorren if your need for speed requires a new purchase - he's WestTexas S2K on this site.

[Racing Mind]

If you are saying it would equate to $39k today that really underlines BigDog's point. I looked at a new R300 last weekend - $67k. Clearly the prices have far outpaced inflation.

 

The R300 is $43,420 USD. Of course you need an engine and transmission, but most are just using an $800 used Duratec and the 5 or 6 speed Caterham gearbox. A CSR can be built for significantly less than the number you are referencing.

[silverfox]

Wow, $67K for a Caterham? You would be better off with a Boxster S. If you take the engine and transmission out of a Caterham or worse still the original S3, you have a very basic roller with nominal value really. Of them all options probably Birkin meets the original's driving enjoyment criteria the best

[lucky dawg]

Wow, $67K for a Caterham? You would be better off with a Boxster S. ...

 

You can also buy a Porsche for less than a Lambo, a Corvette for less than a Porsche, a Mustang GT for less than a 'vette, etc. You can argue price, value and performance all you want, but in the end the choice comes down to personal preferences. Otherwise, there would be no reason for replica 7s.

[Toyotus 7]

I love the idea of the caterham 160. I think it's a real tribute to Chapman's original concept and very worthwhile direction in a world full of overweight, over-powered and overly luxurious fuel pigs. I realize that others here may not see it that way, but that's my take on things.

[xcarguy]

I love the idea of the caterham 160. I think it's a real tribute to Chapman's original concept and very worthwhile direction in a world full of overweight, over-powered and overly luxurious fuel pigs. I realize that others here may not see it that way, but that's my take on things.

 

Over-powered? Nonsense! How can anything be 'over-powered' when too much horse power is 'nearly' enough? :deadhorse::jester::deadhorse:

[bigdog]

While I'm not trying to dis Caterham at all. Heck. I'm going to England next week to look at buying one. I'm just looking at the cost of a new one. As compared to the old one. And how they are built and what they are built of. I.E. An old corvette was much more basic than a new one. 5MPH bumpers, Pollution controls, Multitudness air bags, Multitudness computers controlling everything. With a newer car. One can see why they cost more. But the Caterham really hasn't changed very much. They still don't have bumpers, Airbags, TC/Antilock computers. And so the price difference across the range seems rather large given that one does not get running gear. Again. No disrespect to Caterham. It's just an Arsenio Hall moment on my part. "things that make you go HMMMM"

[Croc]

Unless you run a business it may be hard to understand but Caterhams are expensive because they have a small number production run built largely by hand in one of the most expensive countries in the world for manual labor. If the design was radically changing to go more advanced then you would see them far more expensive again as they seek to recover from that investment. The comparison between Caterham and Donkervoort is interesting as Donkervoort have tried to make the cars technologically advanced and they cost double to triple the Caterhams now.

 

I saw the financial details of Caterham when it was shopped to us at it last private equity buyout and while I cannot disclose details I can confirm that there are no mega profits in the business. In fact I thought it was a bad investment - great product/brilliant cars but high cost production and low margins with the uncertainty of heavy capital demands from the production/inventory process and high risk to whims of markets/trends and uncertainty over government regulation making the cost of compliance prohibitive. I think the current management are doing reasonably well with the hand they have to play.

 

While I would love cheaper cars personally, if you want one you have to pony up the cash because thats what it takes to live the dream. Very sad but true.

 

Personally, I think Brunton Stalker have a better business model foundation than Caterham and have the advantage of a cheaper cost structure to scale up in the future. I hope they continue to do well.

 

Anyway, an emotional debate about high prices for the cars we love should not be disrupted by sensible logic! :jester:

[MoPho]

Perhaps I am jaded from living in a place where everyone and their lawyer owns Ferrari's, Lamborghini's, etc., but I am glad Caterhams are expensive and not a common sight....

 

 

 

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Edited October 29, 2013 by MoPho

[bigdog]

Unless you run a business it may be hard to understand but Caterhams are expensive because they have a small number production run built largely by hand in one of the most expensive countries in the world for manual labor. If the design was radically changing to go more advanced then you would see them far more expensive again as they seek to recover from that investment. The comparison between Caterham and Donkervoort is interesting as Donkervoort have tried to make the cars technologically advanced and they cost double to triple the Caterhams now.

 

I saw the financial details of Caterham when it was shopped to us at it last private equity buyout and while I cannot disclose details I can confirm that there are no mega profits in the business. In fact I thought it was a bad investment - great product/brilliant cars but high cost production and low margins with the uncertainty of heavy capital demands from the production/inventory process and high risk to whims of markets/trends and uncertainty over government regulation making the cost of compliance prohibitive. I think the current management are doing reasonably well with the hand they have to play.

 

While I would love cheaper cars personally, if you want one you have to pony up the cash because thats what it takes to live the dream. Very sad but true.

 

Personally, I think Brunton Stalker have a better business model foundation than Caterham and have the advantage of a cheaper cost structure to scale up in the future. I hope they continue to do well.

 

Anyway, an emotional debate about high prices for the cars we love should not be disrupted by sensible logic! :jester:

 

They seem to be making enough to have started a two car F1 team.

 

For me. It's just more curiosity than anything. I haven't bought a new car of any kind for many years. I try to stick to buying a low mileage car that is a couple of years old. The sucker that bought it new can deal with the depreciation.

 

For MoPho. Even if Caterhams were cheaper. They would still be rare simply due to being one of the most impractical street legal cars ever made. But I agree that it's nice to not see your self coming around every corner.

[MoPho]

They seem to be making enough to have started a two car F1 team.

 

 

 

Caterham didn't start the team, the team bought Caterham.....

 

 

 

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[bigdog]

Caterham didn't start the team, the team bought Caterham.....

 

 

 

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Oops! I guess I should have done a little research.:blush: Caterham had a fair injection of cash then.