Croc

Consistency is damn near impossible. I installed all of these mics using the same technique I tried on my car and I get an overall fail rate. Some issues driving the problems are: - Vibrations making the mic to camera and internal mic connections break. - Flat battery in the AT-3350 (no idea how long the battery lasts – I seem to get 1.5 days continuous track time from my testing at NJMP but it always go flat when I really want to rely on it). - Forgetting to turn the on switch on the AT3350 (no excuse – shoot me!) - Vibrations eventually killing the mic so that it no longer records (internal fault to the case or some break in the mic wire?). Been through 3 this way now. It is very difficult to work out at a track or during a drive whether you are recording good sound or not. There is no effective way to test this out in the field. Easily done on a laptop though. There is no excuse for the errors I made – I was the biggest tool in the kit. Keeping it simple is important as you have a lot to remember to coordinate when you are about to go on track (helmet, gloves, belts, camera, fuel, mic turned on, bonnet clipped down, etc. Lesson 6 – Just when you think you know something you get taught you know shit! Try again. With all this frustration I needed a cure. Lesson 7 – Alcohol can improve your attitude. So now I try for the Holy Grail. I give up on the cheap but fragile AT3350 and I run the AT689 mic forward to the engine bay and (painters) tape it to the shelf above the passenger foot well. The metal in theory should shield the mic from electrical interference and I should get lovely throaty sound from the roller barrel throttle bodies. Recorded with a GoPro And so it works. On back off I do get a tinny (another technical term of my making) sound as the intake is closed off but the rest of the sound is perfect. I even hear the CR500 tires being bitch slapped through the corners. Lesson 8 – Engine bay on the intake side can produce really good sound with an external mic. So now can I replicate the sound using different mics same location? GoPro HD2 paired with either an Opteka VM2000 shotgun mic or an AT Pro-CM24 shotgun mic. Opteka mic GP010002 - YouTube AT ProCM24 mic Success!!! Both are Zetecs of relatively similar horsepower running the same day and on the same track. The only difference in mounting is that the AT Pro CM24 was mounted drivers side above the pedal box on the Caterham. The Opteka was mounted above the passenger foot well under the bonnet of the SPF S1. The AT Pro CM24 sounds best to my ears. As a contrast here is the Opteka taped to the inner scuttle above drivers knee – not bad but a bit rattly and more wind noise than I would like. Would prefer just engine noise/exhaust noise. Lesson 9 – Engine bays are a good location for microphones as wind noise is largely minimized and intake sound is pretty good Lesson 10 – Have a drink as a reward at this point.

Somewhere around this point in my discovery I read lots of techie type articles about how you need a powered microphone to improve dynamic range, improve gain and possibly score on a Friday night. Well maybe not the last one but it got your attention. So I graduated to an AT-3350 lavalier omnidirectional microphone. This has a little battery within it. So let’s mount it to a GoPro and locate the mic under the rear tonneau in the boot area. Much better. Much more differential noise than I would like – whines like Yellowss7 on this forum. Still some wind noise. Not as throaty as the engine sounds in real life – a little thin sounding. Still not a great recorded representation of the sound we hear from our cars. Lesson 3 – Power is better than no power when using a microphone So now I thinking I need to move the mic around to find a better position within the car. Positions tried and discarded: - Under the passenger and driver’s seat – too much wind noise - Under the dash on the center tunnel – too much wind noise. I guess air flow rolls off the dash and circles under the dash and foot well area? - On the rear wing in front of the exhaust tip – way way way too much wind noise even with a dead cat cover. A dead cat cover is a furry item that covers the entire mic tip and is intended to protect the mic from hearing the wind. In that position, I would probably found a dead pussy to be more effective than the mic cover. - Mount the lavalier mic to the exhaust tip using painters tape. Totally blonde move from me. Burned the tape, melted the mic, recorded nothing worthwhile and I felt like a right muppet. After hanging upside down in my passenger foot well like an overgrown bat I saw a nice ledge way way up under the passenger side dash where the relays are located. So I gave that a go. I also upgraded mics to a demo model of an AT689 that I… errr….borrowed (and broke…oops!). This is an expensive powered mic (about $160 from memory – now superseded). I do not recommend trying this at home. Much better. No wind noise now but because it is next to electrical components and it is unshielded you get static and interference. You also can hear the cycling of the fuel pump relay if you listen carefully. So that is another fail. Lesson 4 – Sticking your mic next to electrical components in a car will likely get some static/interference noise. I do learn that a better quality microphone will produce better sound recording results – you get what you pay for. From my direct phone discussions with the Go Pro tech people on how they produce their videos I learn that they frequently use a Sennheiser MKE400 or in one case a Rode Video Mic. Both are $200 area each. They also admitted they have used from time to time separate digital sound recorders to blend sound into the sound recorded by the camera. More of digital recorders later. Lesson 5 – With microphones you get what you pay for So let’s try the same mics and locations in different cars of different USA7s members to see if I can replicate the results consistently. All of the following are done with two AT-3350 mounted in the boot area under the tonneau using GoPro HD2s: No http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=OFXx0S3UucM#t=639s Yes

Getting decent video audio from GoPro or other types of action cameras I have started this thread as lots of people ask me how to get decent sound in a seven while on road or on track. I am not sure I am any better qualified to answer but I have done a lot of experiments to form an opinion as to what I think works. Of course opinions are like assholes – everyone has one and quite a few people have two! I am not going to cover which is the best camera or mounting systems in this thread – just want to focus on sound. I personally want a good throaty engine sound in my videos, nothing annoys me more than seeing a great video with some crap music overlaid. I want to hear that engine roar at revs. If you are like that read on. If you prefer crap music then stop reading now. I am not an audio engineer – I just know what I like listening to in a sevens driving video and there seem to be enough sensible enthusiasts on here who are similar to me in what they want out of a sevens video for sound. I am an anal personality (very appropriate being an accountant/actuary) – I am trying for high quality sound – some of you may agree with me and others may want to short cut. All of us are right – we deserve to get what we want. Klasik and Kitcat expressed some desire to know more about my sound research on videos – not quite sure why they ask me – I could f$%^ up an erection! So this is a practical approach for the average numpty like me. A seven has unique acoustical properties: - They are aerodynamically dirty so lots of wind noise is a given. - They have a light construction so they transmit more vibration, noise and even electrical interference. - The light construction can sound “tinny” instead of resonating a nice deep note that a regular car might do with its more enclosed and insulated spaces. - They have lots and lots of wind noise….did I say that already? So this is a challenge that even open wheel race cars don’t really have as most of them have slippery aero bodywork that can hide microphones unlike a seven. Many of the video examples below are illustrating the sound changes with the different methods. Don’t listen to the whole thing – listen just enough to get a sense of what works or does not work. So let’s start at a baseline. The GoPro or any numbers of action cameras advertise fantastic sound quality out of the box. That might be so when you are surfing, horse riding, riding a mountain bike, rock climbing or running around with your girlfriends during a tampon advertisement. However that is not true when you stick an action camera into a seven and ask it to record a spirited drive or track event. For example here is a GoPro HD2 without external mic in its regular waterproof case perfectly mangling the glorious tones of a beautiful BDA engine in this gorgeous Caterham: GOPR1922 - YouTube Hmmm…. So that sucks! But what if you move the GoPro from the roll bar down to a more sheltered position in around the scuttle, just behind the aeroscreen? GOPR0191 - YouTube Actually that is not too bad. The position seems to shelter the camera from the worst of the air turbulence noise. Lesson 1 – Position the microphone out of the wind. So let’s try and use an external microphone and see if that improves matters? Just a simple Olympus ME-52W connected to a POV VIO HD camera with the mic under the canvas tonneau in the boot area: Not great. The mic is overpowering the ability of the camera to process the intense noise frequencies. So with exactly the same mic mounted in exactly the same position let’s try it with a Go Pro HD2: Well that’s better. Still a little soft in volume and too much wind. Lesson 2 – Some cameras are better than others at processing recorded sound.

That photo is just magnificent - brilliantly done! :seeya:

Here is an idea - share a car and split the cost. Quite a few of the renters were either father/son or two friends. I had 7 hours of open pit lane track on day 1 and 8 hours on day 2. I used about 8-8.5 hours over the 2 days (and was exhausted for it). Share the car and you still get a ton of track time.

Given I am on vacation for the preceding 3 weeks (lazy shit I know!:seeya:) I will have to wait and see if I can take the Friday off work. I would like to participate but I will be a late sign up so I can be sure I can run. I suspect Yellowss7 will also be recovering from excessive sun, relaxation and martinis like me! :-D

Steve - We should coordinate timing and I will try for the same days. JeffH also expressed a desire to try this out. I definitely want to go back. Other options - they have their own Nurburgring private 1.5 day track day. There is also their Spanish trip and the Monza/Mugello trip. Jude - That is a question I would rather not revisit right now..LOL Its a bucket list item so my usual frugal nature went out the window. All the prices are on the Bookatrack website by date/event. The Caterham rental is all inclusive and includes the track day piece. There is a large deductible if you write off the car but thats not at risk unless you are dumb or it is snowing (or both). Formula 1 circuits have a huge amount of run off. Cheap rental car to get from Brussels airport. Plenty of reasonable (for Europe) accommodation options and eating options are available close to the circuit.

That is not what I expected after what I saw happen at NJMP. Maybe unrelated but what octane fuel were you running that day?

Personally I never run slicks on my seven and have no plans to - street tires only. I am working through plans to shift to 13 inch rims but will be using the Avon street tires. I prefer their feel and progressive release at limit. I have run slicks on other race cars in the past and think it is the right solution there. But a seven does not really need them to drive quickly if you have a good feel for the car. Those needing to run slicks are just determined to find a way to keep up with me without investing time in improving their driving skill. :seeya: Yes that was the day when 4 out of 6 rental Caterhams wrote themselves off. I have not had that much wrist action since I was a 15 year old. Quite memorable. :ack: Sadly my days of having a drink (or even using mouthwash) are ending thanks to an alcohol allergy. And I just checked the balls and those walnuts are definitely not elephant sized. So it must be the size and shape of my brain? :conehead:

The 180hp Duratec is a nice car. Lightened flywheel and 13 inch wheels make it pretty perky and improve the character over my car. Could I have used more power - sure - but I was not missing it and was enjoying myself immensely. The video flattens the perspective - the exit out of Eau Rouge is a very steep climb. You cannot see the apex of Radillon at the top of the hill so you aim at a treetop you decide is a marker. The altimeter in meters on the dash shows the height differentials as I go around the track. It is almost as steep at the Cutting at Mt Panorama. Best advice - take more curbing at Radillon apex and you will find it settles the car on line better and holds speed better out on to Kemmel straight. Take it easy in Rivage as the off camber nature means you will wash outwards if you put on too much throttle. Lastly, stop being a pussy and go flat out through Blanchimont. All were true :rofl:

Here video of the first session Tuesday when I managed to get the logger to work (its in 1080 60fps – select the cog wheel to get higher res). The GPS signals were erratic due to the terrain and trees so there is jumpiness to the speeds and map from time to time. At 12m20 you start to see a black Caterham in the rear camera and then the front camera hanging the tail out. When you are Jonny and run BaT you can have a bit of fun from time to time. His car control is immense and you will hear me laughing aloud as he hams it up on track. Brilliant stuff! He does also hold the outright Caterham race lap record around Spa at 2m45.46 in a Caterham R300 so he is one guy I want to follow on track to learn. By contrast I only got to a best lap time of 2m57 in my last session (with no traffic) – just need to find another 12 seconds! The second video screwed up the video sound but was my last session. You can see me halfway through finally summon the courage/skill to take Blanchimont corner flat out without lifting at 105-110mph (F1 cars do it at 200mph!). I had such a blast I am trying to work out when I can get back to do it all again! Forget your retirement savings, college funds, dresses and jewelry for the other half, come on out and live. Life is too short to miss experiences like this.

At this point you are at the maximum altitude of the circuit where you start the downhill run back to the pits. An illustration of the drop is the next photo of me going through the left hander after Rivage – less than a mile beyond Les Combes but a lot lower - photo was taken up near Kemmel Straight. At this point you start picking up real speed, winding your way down before reaching the high speed Blanchimont area. This culminates in the Bus Stop – a very slow esses complex just before the main straight and the F1 pits. After the F1 pits you have the very sharp right hander called La Source. For some reason lots of cars get out of shape on this corner? The bad (missed the apex by 12 feet, opposite lock is on and the damn photographer found me!) The Good

Some photos to look at – all of these great photos are courtesy of the BAT photographers (who make me better than I really am!). Here I am exiting Eau Rouge and making the climb up to Radillon. This is the classic scene of Spa with the Endurance pits in the background. Here is the car hopping the curb at Radillon apex. The pit exit is the lane in the background. After Radillon you have the gently uphill Kemmel Straight. With a good run out of Radillon I was easily sitting on 6800rpm in top gear (say 115-118mph) well before the braking zone. I usually kept it at 6800rpm since it did not take much to hit the rev limiter at 7000rpm. After Kemmel Straight it is a sharp deceleration in speed for Les Combes, a nicely paced esses series.

The Jagermeister Porsche 962 caused me to ruin my underwear in more ways than one: That was one way. The other way was on Kemmel Straight, rocking along at all of 115mph at 6800rpm in 6th gear, the Porsche blasted past me at something like 200mph. Being a competitive chap and I had carefully listened to a few knowledgeable people in the pits about the benefits of slipstreaming aero cars, I decided to grab a tow by jumping in behind it. Instantly I was sucked hard and was at 7800rpm and through the rev limiter past the red line before I could blink. The BAT mechanics slapped me silly later and said “don’t do it again” otherwise you will be fined. I had no idea of the aero vacuum that sits behind a group C sports car…wow! After my March trip, I had a decent idea of where the circuit went and so I just headed on out and promptly looped it at the La Source corner on the first lap…oops! After a few laps I found my feet and just started pounding around to explore the limits carefully. I had two sessions of instruction included in the car rental with Scott Mansell, a very accomplished race champion. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Mansell BTW - I do like how his Wikipedia profile shows his car being recovered after a track moment of kind! I can relate to that! Seriously, I am amazed how much I get out of top tier pro drivers when they provide instruction. It may cost a lot but the quality of input is superb. He gave me some quality suggestions on day 1 and by day 2 after some work at them the results were evident and I felt much happier in the way I was driving the circuit.

There was a very interesting range of cars on display. Low end 125hp Caterhams, to Lotus Eliges and Ginettas, to higher end Porsche 911 derivatives, BMW M3s and then full on race cars like Radicals, Junos and the like. There was a Lola T70 (best sounding car) and a Porsche 962. Tuesday saw a group 4 (I think) De Tomaso Pantera.

Back in March this year I made an attempt to run two consecutive days on track at Spa-Francorchamps in a BookaTrack rented Caterham. As you will recall from this post… http://usa7s.com/vb/showthread.php?t=8506 ….it did not work out so well as it snowed on the first day and it became an exercise in survival and bring the car home alive. For the second day there were a few more inches of snow that I would have needed an SUV to go around the circuit. Still, I saw enough of the circuit to understand that it is a special place and worthy of going all out for another try. So last Monday and Tuesday I went back – again with BookaTrack in trusty BAT10, a Caterham R300 race car that I have rented several times before. Before I turned up at the circuit, I arrived the day before early to allow me to explore the Spa Circuit museum in the Stavelot Abbey, located in a little village about 6 miles from the circuit. While not large, it has a great collection of cars and some very interesting videos of old races. The track day was being run by BookaTrack. I am firmly of the belief that they run the best track days in the UK and Europe. Great team of friendly people, headed up by Jonny Leroux who gives the best driver briefings of any track day I have ever been on – serious, strict but with a healthy dose of humor to keep you focused. It was an open pit lane format with rules are similar to US track days except (a) passing only on left on straights (b) no point by given the speed differentials between slowest to fastest cars. The Belgians do use a white flag on their circuit. I thought this was reference to them surrendering but it means there is a track vehicle on course picking up debris or giving a flat tow to some disabled car. They do this to avoid shutting down the track which takes a long time given it is 4 miles long. My faith was confirmed – it was an epic two days. The weather was warm and perfect. The track was in in top shape. It was not very crowded so quality track time. Well behaved participants – no troubles getting past other cars. Casualty rate was low – only 1 incident. My car was perfect. My car was again BAT 10 – Caterham R300 with a 180hp 2L Duratec, 6 speed box, running 13 inch wheels with CR500s, full cage, no frills. It has the 3.62 diff ratio so in theory should gear out at 120-122mph area in 6th gear at 7000rpm. Track map: I said it once before in an earlier post and I will say it again – the circuit is simply one of the top 3 circuits in the world. I much prefer it over Nurburgring as Spa is a more fun drive and still a great driving challenge. To me the sense of history contributes so much to understanding just a fraction what the top F1 pilots of the 60s and 70s went through. The elevation changes contribute so much the character. The only other circuit which comes close in this respect is Mt Panorama Bathurst Australia which also makes my top 3 circuits to drive. Yet I think I prefer Spa as Bathurst can be a little too dangerous with is blind corners and places too much demand on power which a relatively low powered car like a Caterham cannot meet. Spa’s design rewards the momentum driving style that a Caterham can produce. At my lap times I was averaging 90mph per lap (3mins for 4.5m) – no wonder I spent most of my time looking for 7th gear on the long straights (the video shows me doing this all the time). While the Caterham may not have the top end speed of the Porsches, Beemers and the like, I would kill under braking and would maintain a higher average speed through the corners. For a power circuit like Spa the seven does not give anything away. For example there was a Ferrari 430 running around – I hounded him for 3 laps – he would get away on the straights but I would kill him on the corners and curvy bits. Eventually he let me past with a cloud of brake dust. Same for the McLaren and Aston Martins and most of the other road going exotica. For its cost a Seven cannot be beaten in the value performance stakes. The Caterham could pound its way around for 30-40-50 minutes doing consistent lap times and was probably faster, and easier to drive over the time than much of the high powered cars. We were based in the Endurance Pits this time instead of the Formula 1 Pits. While more crowded it does have the advantage of more character and you can hang on the pit wall watching the cars barrel past into Eau Rouge and up the hill.

Glen - I think I just have to put you in my seven for a session at NJMP - that will seal the purchase!

Mike - Karl also runs a set of BBS wheels purchased through MOG Racing (Joachim is on here with a video effing up a Porsche ) I am sure they are quite reasonable in price (for some people! :jester:)

Very sad news. He was the perfect gentleman in my correspondence with him. At age 61 he was too young to go.

What is it about such pornographic images that I cannot stop looking at them! Looks fantastic! :cooldude:

not me - I am not on Facepalm

Go for it MoBoost! As a CSR owner I can say they are the fastest point to point road legal car that I have ever driven. The suspension makes a huge difference. :cooldude: I am sure your wife would understand...

Mike - is it this one? http://www.sevenselans.com/cars_for_sale/2006_caterham_csr/index.htm

Yes I have used Evans. I ran it in my previous yellow Caterham more as an experiment than anything else. I like the idea that you can have a non-pressuirzed system and that the cooling effectiveness seems to extend to lowering oil temps slightly (important to me at the time). On the downside, it is expensive especially when you consider you have to use the prep fluid. Also if you lose any coolant then you can only replace with Evans - no mixing with water or other regular coolant mixes. It is also a no go for track work. My mechanic swears by it for older cars as his experience is that the cooling is more effective for keeping block temps down plus you have the anti-corrosive benefits. I dont run in my current Caterham and have not felt the need to other than for possibly indirectly lowering oil temp which to my mind run too high relative to water temp.

Interesting question. I can only think of motorbikes that provide the same thrills for money equation. Although they have the added bonus of coming with a free donor program sign up for the inevitable accident. However, like most things in life (money, beer, women, shrimp, wheels, etc) I prefer 4 over 2. If you start thinking modified then you get things like: - V8 Miatas from Flying Miata - 300hp Honda engined Minis from that crazy mini place in VA