2.3 Duratec running cold in '03 Caterham

[ashyers]

Hello,

I need some help here guys. The 2.3 Duratec in my "new" Caterham is running cold. I figured it was the T-stat, but that wasn't the case. When I replaced the old one it looked fine and the new one didn't have much effect on the engine's operating temp.

 

Here's some info on the car: 180F T-stat, electric fan, heater, ~6qt. dry sump with oil cooler. I can get temp in the car if I let it idle with no airflow. The fan turns on at around 85C-90C. When driving it runs around 60C if I'm moving. I have not checked the gauge's sensor location yet. It seems to me it may be measuring the coolant temp in the rad, not the engine... If the gauge sensor is not in some wacky spot and the T-stat is OK there must be enough coolant reaching the radiator to keep this thing cool regardless of the T-stat.

 

What I'd like to know is the cooling path of a Duratec to verify the hoses are routed correctly.

 

Thanks,

 

Andy

[Croc]

This is from a very useful build blog that I have referenced in the past. Its for a Caterham 360 - so a 2L Duratec but the principles are the same for a 2.3Lw

 

http://www.usa7s.net/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=14775&stc=1

[Dave W]

If the diagram is correct? I would not think that having the temp sensor in the heater feed line would be ideal. I would verify the location of your temp sensor first. DaveW

[wemtd]

At least for the 2.0 curated there are two water outlet connectors: one plastic, one cast aluminum (same part number

When I finally managed to get an aluminum one I had a fabricator TIG weld customization for my plumbing configuration and now have both temp senders in the primary water flow (ECU & dash display)

This would eliminate the temp sender T-piece and grounding wire for it.

[ashyers]

AHHH! Just described how the system is plumbed and was timed out! Attempt #2...

 

Mike,

Thanks for the drawing, it seems the builder of this car went a much different route! We'll see if I'm able to describe it:

 

I'll start with the water rail. It appears to be a Ford part and supports the coil pack. The following is attached to it:

1) ECU temp sensor

2) Gauge temp sensor

3) Upper heater hose*

4) Hose that exits block prior to T-stat

5) 5/16" expansion tank hose

6) Upper radiator hose*

 

The T-stat housing is connected as follows:

1) Large diameter hose to triple "T" then to the lower radiator

2) Small diameter hose to triple "T" #1

 

The triple "T" is connected as follows:

1) Triple "T" #1 to T-stat (as above)

2) Triple "T" #2 to expansion tank hose

3) Triple "T" #3 to heater lower hose

 

I need to warp my head around the way this was intended to work. My sense is that this system is bypassing too much flow around the T-stat so it's unable to control the temp. I also think it's way to complicated! If I clean things up I can ditch a few feet of hose and the "T".

 

What direction is the coolant intended to flow in this engine? Is it to exit the T-stat housing?

 

Thanks,

 

Andy

 

Edit - added a sketch of the system

Edited November 12, 2018 by ashyers
add sketch

[ashyers]

Sorry about the upside-down sketch! The orig. was OK, but it flipped?!?!?

[Sean]

The following diagrams may be of use to you:

 

Duratec cooling system, with heater:

PDF, for saving: YD0505_01cool.pdf

 

JPG, for immediate viewing:

 

Duratec cooling system, without heater:

PDF, for saving: YD0533_02cool.pdf

 

JPG, for immediate viewing:

 

 

These are from a supposedly reputable source on performance Ford engines. Best of luck, sir!

Edited November 13, 2018 by Sean
Post needed to be edited.

[ashyers]

Sean,

Thanks!

 

I'm really curious about the restrictor in the de-gas line. I wonder what it's purpose is?

 

If I use the drawings you sent as a guide I can certainly eliminate a few hoses and simplify things a bit.

 

I need to do a bit of noodling around and come up with a plan. I'm still not totally clear how the engine is over cooling when underway, but I suspect it's excessive coolant flow that's not regulated by the T-stat. I suspect the mass of hoses going into the triple "T" in the lower radiator hose.

 

Thanks again for all the help guys .

 

Andy

[1turbofocus]

Your Temp sensor should be in the thermostat housing right where the thermostat housing and head

 

Tom

[ashyers]

Tom,

Thanks! Both the gauge and the ECU's sender are in the housing at the rear of the head. It appears they are working OK, so I'm rethinking the hose routing. I'm going to pull the engine for some other issues so it will be a good time to simplify the system and hopefully get it working as intended.

 

This is the first reverse flow cooling system I've worked with so I want to make sure I understand how it's supposed to work before I reinvent the wheel.

 

Andy

[ashyers]

Update:

Used the routing suggested by Sean for a heater equipped car. I included the restrictor in the degas line, I just drilled out the center of a small SHCS and installed it in the expansion tank hose nipple. As far as the T fittings I was able to find a nylon one that was able to accommodate the hose sizes for both the T-stat housing and the heater hoses. So far so good. The car has ~1000mi on the rebuilt engine, including some time at over 100F ambient and it's working well.

 

Thanks for the help!

 

Andy

[Gherkin]

Resurrecting an old thread alert!

 

I am running a 2.0 Duratec in my Birkin and also have an issue with the warm-up time seeming long. Now, to throw a few variables in, I am running a Davies Craig electric water pump with their pump and fan controller. The max temp is set at 190* and the pump and fan seem to be functioning as designed, gauge rarely reads over 195* even on a hot NorCal day. The pump controller runs 10 seconds on/30 seconds off to 20c below the set temp then 10 seconds on/off to within 5c of set temp then full on.The odd part of the system is that it is set up to run the coolant in reverse to the stock configuration. Water is drawn from the thermostat housing (no thermostat) by the pump and run into the bottom of the rad. then out the top to the manifold at the back of the head. The temp sensors (ECU, Gauge, pump/fan controller) are between the thermostat housing and pump so they are seeing engine temp water.

 

My main question is: Does the coolant flow direction really matter if there isn't a thermostat in the system??

 

Thanks,

Chris