Brightonuk Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 Hi Guys I need some guidance on what sort of numbers are ave, good, better and outstanding from a 2.0 Zetec This is the result from my rebuild which included. Overbored New Crank Rods, Pistons Megasquirt ECU Polished and Ported Head Replaced/refreshed TWM throttle body and bearings. I don't really understand what the different colored lines represent but I desperately need someone to justify the cash I spent getting there. Are these number average should I of expected more for the $15K+ I sank into the rebuild? http://www.usa7s.net/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=15641&stc=1 http://www.usa7s.net/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=15642&stc=1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy69 Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 Is that at the wheels? If so that’s pretty good for a normally aspirated 2.0 Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xcarguy Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 (edited) - red line: horse power. Peaked 195 @ 7400rpm (using rounded numbers) - blue line: torque. Peaked 144 @ 5700rpm (again, using rounded numbers) - other lines: maybe base numbers (stock/pre-build?) - red and blue lines cross: HP and torque are the same (roughly 142 @ 5200rpm) - WCF: weather correction factor. Corrections based on temperature, air density, possibly humidity and elevation. Looks like you may have dynoed on a day when ambient temps were higher than standard (ISA+). With the listed rebuild, sounds like chassis dyno numbers. With a 15% parasitic power loss (middle-of-the-road estimate), that would give you WCF numbers at the flywheel of approximately 230hp/170 torque. To reiterate Andy69’s answer, good numbers for a NA Zetec. Edited July 17, 2019 by xcarguy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1turbofocus Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 Whats your compression ? What Cams ? This in ITB Correct ? 15,000.00 was for the rebuild of the Engine only ? Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brightonuk Posted July 17, 2019 Author Share Posted July 17, 2019 Here are some more numbers they just sent. Ave Torque & Power Before and After Rebuild http://www.usa7s.net/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=15643&stc=1 Max Torque & Power Before and After Rebuild http://www.usa7s.net/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=15644&stc=1 Any particular questions I should ask the builder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driven Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 Here are some more numbers they just sent. Ave Torque & Power Before and After Rebuild Max Torque & Power Before and After Rebuild Any particular questions I should ask the builder? To confirm, you spent $15K and netted and avg of ~30whp and avg of ~20tq? Does that $15K include the tuning? Did you deliver an engine and they rebuilt or did you bring the car to them and they did all of the work (remove engine, rebuild, and reinstall)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brightonuk Posted July 17, 2019 Author Share Posted July 17, 2019 Itrbofocus Kent Cams I took the car to them so it is 100% hands off on my side The compression I believe is 11.1 but I will confirm when I pick her up These numbers are on pump gas (which was what I had in the tank with an octane booster) they will run 100 octane tomorrow but do not expect much of a change in the output (I will be using that $11 a gallon go go juice from now on) Here is the breakdown thus far It does not include the Megasquirt system or programing/installation or the TWM rebuild (throttle body bearing) Which I am thinking at least another $5K http://www.usa7s.net/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=15645&stc=1 What questions should I ask when I pick her up in relation to the performance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driven Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 It does not include the Megasquirt system or programing/installation or the TWM rebuild (throttle body bearing) I don't know how difficult it is to install a megasquirt into a 7... not sure if it includes building an engine harness or just using the harness that's on the engine already. If it's a whole new harness, those can range from $200 to $2000 for a proper motorsport rated harness. The TWM rebuild should be rather inexpensive though, but it's the labor that's killing you. $115/hr, means they charged you 40 hours of labor to do everything. Which isn't terrible... I did a complete engine rebuild for another vehicle, but I did the labor on removing/installing the engine and putting the head on the block. Otherwise, all new parts with a Darton sleeved block... for under $10k, including tuning and new ECU. I imagine had I paid someone to install the head and put the engine back in the car, it would have been maybe 8 hours of labor. Ultimately though, if you feel that each horsepower gain over average is worth $500 and each torque was worth $750, then that's all that matters. Sometimes it's all the builder can extract due to inherently limited issues with the engine. Maybe the Zetec is limited in it's ability to make more power. Also, I don't see any porting/polishing done on the head... Then again, I'm not sure if more power can be had by porting the zetec head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brightonuk Posted July 18, 2019 Author Share Posted July 18, 2019 Thanks for the input As I blew the engine it was a necessity to do something I am sure I could have got her back on the road by dropping is a junk motor for a lot less, and more than likely ended up with a lot less power. So if I just that tell myself that I can justify the $500/$700 + the smile I will have on the track with that extra 30 Hp will help. I will post the final cost hopefully later today as the car should be ready this afternoon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1turbofocus Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 So the engine was 4500.00 ? Why did you go to the MS ? What were you running before ? Did you get the Knock Sensor Option ? If your going to do a compression that requires 100 octane why not go for 11.7 to 12.2 and make more HP and TQ ? Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brightonuk Posted July 19, 2019 Author Share Posted July 19, 2019 Why did you go to the MS : The Electromitive was expensive and overkill for the Cat on their advice went with the MS What were you running before: I was using Elecromotive "Tec1" I think this was one of their first units as it was on the car so I assume installed in 2001 The unit was discontinued years ago and they could not access the Tec1 to program it as I do not have a Password, so to start over would have cost $$$ I figured a new unit was the way to go for a few extra bucks and less chance of issues down the road. + they can now re-tune it if needed Did you get the Knock Sensor Option: A question I will ask If your going to do a compression that requires 100 octane why not go for 11.7 to 12.2 and make more HP and TQ: I assumed 11:1 but may be mistaken I will ask when I pick up the car. Thanks for the questions as I would not have thought to ask if anyone has other questions please let me know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brightonuk Posted July 20, 2019 Author Share Posted July 20, 2019 OK car is back an extra $3k for the MS, new coils, harness, Fuel Pressure Gage, Air/Fuel Ratio Gauge and various other bits including new injectors from a Porsche Boxster (apparently the one installed were incorrect) apparently he Boxster injectors work perfectly with this set up lastly mapping/tuning. The dyno was chassis DHU I just never twigged the meaning, and the results were from the wheels Compression is 11.5 No I did not get a knock sensor as I am using 100 octane and as long as I stick to a min of 98 he said I will not have an issue I redline at 7800 but will air on the side of caution and set the shift lights at 7500. Will road test her tomorrow once the wings are back on but they said they tested it and got to 120 on the street before backing off and there is more in reserve. Track day 20th August so we will see. OK so it was more than I than I thought (quite a sticker shock at first) but now it done I am happy to have a car that should perform better than before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1turbofocus Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 Saying its running 100 , 105 ,110 is not a good reason to say you dont need a knock sensor , no one has worked in and Tuned this engine more then I have and I am telling you you need a knock sensor Unless your running a dry sump which you might be I wouldnt go higher then 7400 on the Zetec oil pump gears are well known to break , I would of installed the billet Zetec oil pump gears , were they installed in yours ? DHU Dyno ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Croc Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 Track day 20th August so we will see. Good to hear that you are back together and running again. I assume the engine was run in on the dyno (best option) or will be run in before you get to the track day? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brightonuk Posted July 20, 2019 Author Share Posted July 20, 2019 Saying its running 100 , 105 ,110 is not a good reason to say you dont need a knock sensor , no one has worked in and Tuned this engine more then I have and I am telling you you need a knock sensor Unless your running a dry sump which you might be I wouldn't go higher then 7400 on the Zetec oil pump gears are well known to break , I would of installed the billet Zetec oil pump gears , were they installed in yours ? DHU Dyno ? Point taken I will look into the knock sensor option as the MS does allow this addon I doubt they used billet gears (it would have been noted on the work sheet) No I am not running a dry sump And you are starting to depress me I was asked was it a chassis or engine dyno run and I said I did not know then it hit me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vovchandr Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 Your car has essentially the same base setup as mine but it sounds amazing and definitely looks quicker! https://www.instagram.com/p/B0FDHVcnkhA/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panamericano Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 I also may have to change ECMs. I have a TEC 2 and again, NO SUPPORT. I have not found anyone to tune it. Probably should have bought the unused Megasquirt on Locost 7s recently. Your engine sounds awesome. Remember the key to high tech shopping: Once you buy, quit shopping or listening to others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1turbofocus Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 Point taken I will look into the knock sensor option as the MS does allow this addon I doubt they used billet gears (it would have been noted on the work sheet) No I am not running a dry sump And you are starting to depress me I was asked was it a chassis or engine dyno run and I said I did not know then it hit me. Not trying to bum you out just worked on the Zetec a lot and you have been given some bad information and trying to make sure your bases are covered and you dont hurt your new engine Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brightonuk Posted July 21, 2019 Author Share Posted July 21, 2019 Ha no worries the comment was meant to be humorous and good advice is always welcome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vovchandr Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 Ha no worries the comment was meant to be humorous and good advice is always welcome Has the engine noise changed drastically since all the work has been done? I'm curious as to what makes your sound so menacing in comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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