Pectel ECU users roll call

[ashyers]

It's likely for a Bosch temperature sender. I suspect the air temp sensor (ACT in your maps). If it was the coolant temp sensor I doubt the car would start! If it is the ACT the system will default to a value that was input to the map. It's nice to have it, but the car will run without it.

 

Edit: Check the airbox or backing plate for your ITB's. If it's ACT it's possible it was disconnected by mistake.

Edited August 21, 2022 by ashyers

[Vovchandr]

3 hours ago, ashyers said:

It's likely for a Bosch temperature sender. I suspect the air temp sensor (ACT in your maps). If it was the coolant temp sensor I doubt the car would start! If it is the ACT the system will default to a value that was input to the map. It's nice to have it, but the car will run without it.

 

Edit: Check the airbox or backing plate for your ITB's. If it's ACT it's possible it was disconnected by mistake.

 

This sounded very plausible! So much so that I was almost disappointed to discover that my intake air temp sensor had its wire properly connected to it. I was thinking that maybe tuner forgot to connect it back and that would explain some of the pending issues

 

Quick google search brings up this type of Bosch liquid sensor with a connector that seems to match the pigtail, this is likely what you had in mind?

 

[Vovchandr]

Here is my Intake and one of my temp sensors. 

 

I also think this is my knock sensor but I don't believe it communicates with the Pectel ECU as I don't have a pigtail for it

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 22, 2022 by Vovchandr

[ashyers]

It looks like your car has a bunch of the stock wiring and sensors still left on it. Do you know any history of the build? I'm guessing they added the Pectel ECU when they went to ITB's and left the factory stuff in place, even though it's not used. Unfortunately that makes the wiring "interesting"!

 

Check to see that your ECT is hooked up and also that the readings make sense when you look on the computer. Check the other readings too while you're at it. The system you have doesn't use many inputs and you should be able to see if things are working by looking at the sensors live.

[Vovchandr]

9 hours ago, ashyers said:

It looks like your car has a bunch of the stock wiring and sensors still left on it. Do you know any history of the build? I'm guessing they added the Pectel ECU when they went to ITB's and left the factory stuff in place, even though it's not used. Unfortunately that makes the wiring "interesting"!

 

Check to see that your ECT is hooked up and also that the readings make sense when you look on the computer. Check the other readings too while you're at it. The system you have doesn't use many inputs and you should be able to see if things are working by looking at the sensors live.

 

I believe this is the only sensor pigtail that doesn't go to anything the build was always a Zetec "200hp" ITB package so the wiring harness is made to read TPS and intake air temp. I don't believe I have any wiring left for the knock sensor and the car was always build with a TPS and vacuum rail for whatever reason.

 

I came across that pigtail by the ECU and I'm pretty sure it's been there throughout my ownership and not just a byproduct of some recent disconnect. That's a big reason as to why I'm curious as to what it could be. 

[CarlB]

To verify, you are correct, here are two pictures of my connector and senser. This is just a throwing parts at it solution, but you might want to replace the crank position sensor and look at the wire from the sensor to the ECU. Those sensors put out a square wave form and are difficult to test. The best way is with an oscilloscope. It isn't a strong signal, and the wire can pick up interference. When you posted pictures of the engine missing with fire in the intake, that could be a timing issue on those cylinders. Is the overheating happening only when the temperature under the bonnet would be the hotter than normal? If that sensor or wire are getting overheated that could cause your problem.    

 

   

[Vovchandr]

1 hour ago, CarlB said:

To verify, you are correct, here are two pictures of my connector and senser. This is just a throwing parts at it solution, but you might want to replace the crank position sensor and look at the wire from the sensor to the ECU. Those sensors put out a square wave form and are difficult to test. The best way is with an oscilloscope. It isn't a strong signal, and the wire can pick up interference. When you posted pictures of the engine missing with fire in the intake, that could be a timing issue on those cylinders. Is the overheating happening only when the temperature under the bonnet would be the hotter than normal? If that sensor or wire are getting overheated that could cause your problem.    

 

   

 

Thank you for taking time to look at yours and confirming.

 

Do you happen to also have a spare connector going to nowhere? 

 

Most of the misfiring issues and overheating have been so far solved by going to a tuner and getting it mostly dialed in. I still have some dialing in to do myself, which is partially why I started this thread. However misfire is mostly resolved and will try to tune the rest of issues out. 

[ashyers]

Is it for the IAC you removed?

[CarlB]

Yes it is the intake air temperature sensor.

[Vovchandr]

2 hours ago, ashyers said:

Is it for the IAC you removed?

 

IAC is still physically there and plugged in (picture 4), the lines from it go to nowhere and the intake plenum lines for the vacuum manifold are plugged. 

[MV8]

I'd cut the wrap and trace all the inputs to the pectel, then rearrange so the harness relies more on clamps than on the connections for support and leave a stress relief loop at the connectors. You can buy split loom or other type of cover instead of tape and just used a little tape every foot or so to keep it tight. Make a diagram of every connection to keep handy.

Edited August 24, 2022 by MV8

[CarlB]

Here is the pin out for my ECU. I assume it is the same as yours. I looked around for the name of the company Quicksilver gets connectors from but can't find it. If you need some connectors, I will get the name for you.

 

ECU Pinout Zetec T-2.pdf

[Vovchandr]

So small updates today. 

 

On a hunch I figured out how to turn on datalogging and how to pull it out using offload tool. 

 

However now I'm not sure what to do with the logged data or how to read it. 

 

I saved it and it became a ".pds" file that's labeled as Pi Dataset. 

 

Offload tool doesn't open files, only configurations and Pi Toolbox doesn't appear to see these files either. 

 

So now I can log but I'm not sure how helpful it is. I think I can review them on the spot In the offload tool but I can't save them to view them later unless I figure out how to open those files 

(unknown).1999-11-30.00-00-00-01.pds

Edited October 20, 2022 by Vovchandr

[Vovchandr]

For what it's worth my big "falling flat on it's face for a second or two after full throttle" has been mended at the end of last year.

 

Using no direct knowledge base or experience this map seemed "off to me" so I went through and bumped up the values in this valley to make it all have an upward curve instead of having a dip.

 

Haven't done extensive testing yet but it appears fixed and will likely need some finer tuning.

 

If anybody @NSXguy can explain the logic here I'm all ears as tuning is a blind spot here

 

The downward spec was change to an upward trend

 

 

 

Edited February 2 by Vovchandr

[JohnCh]

@Vovchandr Based on your description of the issue, I'm not sure that change should have made a difference. I'm curious to hear from people knowledgeable in this area, but it looks to me like that is the 3D graph which shows the amount of fuel injected (z-axis) at specific load (y-axis) and rpm (x-axis).  The reason for the dip is that represents high rpm and low load. Sometimes volumetric efficiency is lower in those conditions, or fuel atomization is better, or it's tuned for fuel economy, or emissions, or it's largely ignored by the tuner, etc.  The issue you describe -- hesitation or flat spot upon heavy throttle application -- points more towards enrichment settings.  When you suddenly hit the throttle, the additional air in the cylinders occurs nearly instantaneously, but the fuel lags a step behind. To compensate for this, and to avoid a lean condition (your flat spot), additional fuel is momentarily added to the system until the fuel from the steady state map can catch up.  It's possible that your map was overly lean in the area you increased and that conditions where you added throttle were such that you were staying in that portion of the map, but if you really are seeing it when going full throttle, then I suspect enrichment.

[Vovchandr]

17 hours ago, JohnCh said:

@Vovchandr Based on your description of the issue, I'm not sure that change should have made a difference. I'm curious to hear from people knowledgeable in this area, but it looks to me like that is the 3D graph which shows the amount of fuel injected (z-axis) at specific load (y-axis) and rpm (x-axis).  The reason for the dip is that represents high rpm and low load. Sometimes volumetric efficiency is lower in those conditions, or fuel atomization is better, or it's tuned for fuel economy, or emissions, or it's largely ignored by the tuner, etc.  The issue you describe -- hesitation or flat spot upon heavy throttle application -- points more towards enrichment settings.  When you suddenly hit the throttle, the additional air in the cylinders occurs nearly instantaneously, but the fuel lags a step behind. To compensate for this, and to avoid a lean condition (your flat spot), additional fuel is momentarily added to the system until the fuel from the steady state map can catch up.  It's possible that your map was overly lean in the area you increased and that conditions where you added throttle were such that you were staying in that portion of the map, but if you really are seeing it when going full throttle, then I suspect enrichment.

 

I certainly don't know enough to explain why things might be fixed, I leave that to the experts but they certainly seem like they are. 

 

To be clear it's not exactly a "flat spot". The car literally becomes unresponsive to throttle and has no "go" for a good one or two seconds when this happens and then just picks back up. 

 

Situation typically would be full throttle > lift > decel a for a second or two and let rpms drop to mid range or so > throttle again and the problem occurs. 

 

Problem really came from nowhere in particular. I think this was the first track day that I really had it which is a second track day since I replaced head gasket and got the tune. Id have to go back to the thread to see if the issue started happening before the tune but if I recall it did and the tune made it a bit better. ECU was not messed with before the tune during ownership and I still have original map if I need to reference it. 

 

During the track day if I recall my notes partial throttle after decel gave more problems than going full on wide open throttle so I did that throughout the day more often to bypass and bandaid the problem. 

 

It's all very strange. I believe I run VERY rich now but that's better than lean and I don't like having that problem in my RPMs. I'll keep taking notes and try to setup data logging this year maybe with the help of members here. I have wideband but it doesn't data log, it's standalone. 

Edited February 5 by Vovchandr

[JohnCh]

15 minutes ago, Vovchandr said:

Problem really came from nowhere in particular. I think this was the first track day that I really had it which is a second track day since I replaced head gasket and got the tune. Id have to go back to the thread to see if the issue started happening before the tune but if I recall it did and the tune made it a bit better. ECU was not messed with before the tune during ownership and I still have original map if I need to reference it. 

 

This is key to understand.  When did it start, when does it happen -- e.g. is it only when you describe it or are there other less severe issues that might be related? is it in specific rpm ranges? how sensitive is the severity of the issue to the load delta or rpm? -- and did anything else change leading up to the issue?  Also, if it is as severe as you write, and you had a competent individual map the engine, then I would look towards mechanical or electrical issues.  Could there be a wiring issue that is triggered from the movement of the engine when you suddenly back off like you describe? is there an issue with the injectors where they are not opening up as quickly as they should?  is there a problem with the TPS that reacts badly to rapid movement?  etc.

 

As for the map changes fixing it, try visualizing where your throttle position and rpm are when this occurs and see if that is actually in the map range that you adjusted.  If you were really going full throttle, then that is not an area of the map you touched.  

[Vovchandr]

1 hour ago, JohnCh said:

 

This is key to understand.  When did it start, when does it happen -- e.g. is it only when you describe it or are there other less severe issues that might be related? is it in specific rpm ranges? how sensitive is the severity of the issue to the load delta or rpm? -- and did anything else change leading up to the issue?  Also, if it is as severe as you write, and you had a competent individual map the engine, then I would look towards mechanical or electrical issues.  Could there be a wiring issue that is triggered from the movement of the engine when you suddenly back off like you describe? is there an issue with the injectors where they are not opening up as quickly as they should?  is there a problem with the TPS that reacts badly to rapid movement?  etc.

 

As for the map changes fixing it, try visualizing where your throttle position and rpm are when this occurs and see if that is actually in the map range that you adjusted.  If you were really going full throttle, then that is not an area of the map you touched.  

 

The whole point of me blindly messing with the map was to try to partition whether this was mechanical or electric/ECU. 

 

My entire engine teardown and head gasket replacement partially started because I had this issue and I couldn't track it down. In the thread part of the theory was a break in the gasket was causing coolant to get sucked into the engine causing a wash out. 

 

Mechanically everything checks out. Compression, leak down, coolant pressure, Endo scope, rebuilt induction, replaced sensors, replaced ignition, looked for loose wires, moved injectors around etc. 

 

If my fuel table adjustment truly did fix the problem then it's certainly a smoking gun. 

 

Otherwise it's very hard to recreation and isolate this condition to a specific situation without data logging and reviewing that data. 

[MV8]

Don't have a pectel so I didn't look at this topic until now.

The table looks to be alpha N / no MAP (load sensing). 18ms is around 100% injector duty cycle at around 6500 rpm. Left side is throttle position (butterfly angle). Column is injector on/open time in miliseconds.

 

I would have pulled up the middle too.

The block widths and lengths are adjustable but the table size is usually the limiting factor, so smaller load cells offer better resolution at low rpm and transition from closed throttle, then get wider as rpm and throttle position increase since the engine is less sensitive at higher flow. I would have the WOT/high rpm blocks about twice the size of the off idle/closed throttle blocks.

[JohnCh]

2 hours ago, Vovchandr said:

Problem really came from nowhere in particular. I think this was the first track day that I really had it which is a second track day since I replaced head gasket and got the tune. Id have to go back to the thread to see if the issue started happening before the tune but if I recall it did and the tune made it a bit better. ECU was not messed with before the tune during ownership and I still have original map if I need to reference it. 

28 minutes ago, Vovchandr said:

My entire engine teardown and head gasket replacement partially started because I had this issue and I couldn't track it down. In the thread part of the theory was a break in the gasket was causing coolant to get sucked into the engine causing a wash out.

 

I'm confused by the two statements above.  Has this issue been there for years and the impetus to your initial troubleshooting, or is this more recent?

 

@MV8 even if that portion of the map should be pulled up, would a change there (light-mid throttle and mid-high rpm) address the issue Vlad describes above and quoted below? Or Vlad are you saying it's after full throttle, then back on the throttle again, but not at full throttle?  i.e. Full throttle > off throttle > light to mid throttle?

2 hours ago, Vovchandr said:

Situation typically would be full throttle > lift > decel a for a second or two and let rpms drop to mid range or so > throttle again and the problem occurs.