Ideas for Reducing Wind Turbulence (without Side Curtains on)

[Randy Flowers]

Hey yall…

 

I have recently bought my first Caterham Super 7 (a 2020 310R). 

 

The only thing I dislike about driving the 7 so far is that I have to have the side curtains on when over 40mph.  Just too windy otherwise.  But, I do not like having them on.  My main issue is that I love to be able to see clearly out to my side so that I can experience nature and the world when driving on the country roads and so that I am interact more easily with drivers next to me.  It also makes the car feel a bit claustrophobic and hemmed in with them on.  Looking through the side curtain plastic windows is a little blurry and also bounces around, so it is hard to see clearly out to the sides with them on.  I would LOVE to be able to take them off unless I was driving on highways at 70+mph.

 

In the dry season (about 6 months in Oregon), I have two ideas for being able to drive without the side curtains on in a way that would make the wind turbulence acceptable.

 

1) The first idea is to combine using the half doors with some sort of wind deflectors attached to the windscreen. 

I do have the half doors.  However,  they are not yet fitted so they are unusable.  So, I am unable to put them on and test how much they reduce cockpit wind turbulence vs having the full side curtains on.  I am guessing that a combo of having the half doors on plus also using some fairly big wind deflectors, like the ones in the picture at the link below, would reduce wind turbulence to acceptable levels inside the cockpit.  I am guessing that the smaller standard wind deflectors that you can order from Caterham would be too small and ineffective for reducing cockpit wind turbulence. Thus, we would need to make some bigger custom wind deflectors like the ones in the link below.

 

https://forum.wscc.co.uk/forum/uploads/monthly_2023_07/IMG_9941.jpeg.7961e5b011f5fe067752f729b022b4c2.jpeg

 

Am I correct that using the combo of half doors plus some sort of wind deflectors will reduce wind turbulence to acceptable levels inside the cockpit when driving at speeds up to 60mph?

 

2) The second idea is to use the Aeroscreen along with the half doors on.  Obviously, using the Aeroscreen would be even more windy, but the wind would be coming in from the front and not pelting you from the sides like it does with the windscreen and no side curtains on.  I do NOT want to wear a helmet when driving the car on a non-track day, so if I used the Aeroscreen, I would do it with only a doo-rag on my head (I have long hair) plus ballistic goggles on.  My issue with driving with no windscreen and goggles on is that a big rock or something could come in very fast and hurt me or my passenger, maybe even taking an eye out right thru the ballistic goggles.  Motorcycle riders of course regularly drive without a windscreen and with just glasses or goggles of some sort  to protect their eyes, and they seem to do that OK without having serious injuries from flying rocks, etc.  So, it makes sense that it would work for me with the 7 and the Aeroscreen on, but I am loath to take the chance of being hurt by flying road debris. 

 

Am I overly concerned about flying road debris causing injury if I have ballistic goggles on when using the Aeroscreen?

 

Given it obviously even more windy with the Aeroscreen plus half doors on, is the increased wind less annoying given that the wind is coming directly at you instead of pelting you from the sides (with the windscreen and no side curtains on)?

 

Would be so cool to drive it with using the Aeroscreen/half doors and goggles.  It is already insanely cool to drive the car, but driving it that way would really be neat.  It may be both way too windy plus too dangerous without a helmet though.

 

Thanks!

Randy

Edited August 24 by Randy Flowers

[IamScotticus]

I've been looking at helmet options.  Not for protection,  just for wind.  I'm thinking some of the newer sky diving helmets are close to what I'm looking for. Just not sure how silly I'd look in it.  But then, I'm in a ridiculous car anyways.

[slowdude]

Been riding for 16 years. Been hit with rocks, bugs, plastic bottles etc. 11 different countries and 50k + miles. Take my below as biased due to the above.

 

Not wearing a helmet is a personal choice, as it is in stated which don't require helmets.

 

It will be great until something goes wrong. Nothing may go wrong, but as every motorcyclist says "it's the other person not me".

 

 

[MV8]

https://classicpartsltd.com/product-category/default-category/classic-car-products/classic-car-apparel/

[IamScotticus]

14 hours ago, slowdude said:

Been riding for 16 years. Been hit with rocks, bugs, plastic bottles etc. 11 different countries and 50k + miles. Take my below as biased due to the above.

 

Not wearing a helmet is a personal choice, as it is in stated which don't require helmets.

 

It will be great until something goes wrong. Nothing may go wrong, but as every motorcyclist says "it's the other person not me".

 

 

I'm thinking the same.  I watched a half pound steel shard get kicked up, fly over several cars, and strike my truck hood, a few feet in front of me.  Got it on dash cam too.

Even with a wind screen, I would want some eye protection in case it got shattered and I had to punch it out to see.  I know, it's a 7, whatever.   Eye safety. 

The thing I remember the most,  when I was driving,  was how the top of my head was getting beaten up.  I started wearing a welders bandanna.   Hats didn't stay on too well.

Edited August 25 by IamScotticus

[toldfield]

There was a discussion last year with some interesting ideas...

 

 

[Randy Flowers]

I am leaning towards the following solution.
 

Keep the windscreen on so that my face/eyes are fully protected (still wearing motorcycle glasses though!)

Then add the standard Caterham Wind Deflector kit and use the half doors.  Guessing that the combo of those two things would reduce wind buffeting by 50% at least.
I would get a tonneau cover fitted that worked with the half doors on the car, and I would use the tonneau 99% of the time to cover the cockpit when leaving the car outside in public, even if leaving it outside all night on a road trip or something.

 

I could then still use the half top only in the situation of being caught in a bad rain storm (but with the half doors rather than the side curtains).  As long as the rain is the normal light rain that we get so often in Oregon, I could just drive right through it without needing the half top.

 

Questions

 

1) Does the standard Caterham Wind Deflector kit actually block enough wind to be worth adding?  Or would I need to fabricate custom wind deflectors?  I am thinking that the wind deflectors shown in the picture below combined with using the half doors would seriously reduce wind buffeting and make it tolerable unless over 60mph. 

 

2) Is the wind deflector in the picture below the standard Caterham wind deflector kit or is this one a bigger custom wind deflector?  It is hard to tell how standard Caterham wind deflectors look on the car when looking at the wind deflector kit on the Caterham parts site, as they are not shown on the actual car.

 

 

3) I haven't yet heard anyone answer if the half doors actually do reduce wind buffeting from the sides?  Do they reduce wind buffeting by 25% just by themselves vs not having them on?

 

Randy

 

Edited August 26 by Randy Flowers

[Randy Flowers]

It appears that the Caterham wind deflectors are attached using the standard door pins, so I would still be able to switch back to the full side curtains if need be for the rainy season (yay!).

I am calling Soft Bits for 7s tomorrow to ask them what they think of all this.  They also have the missing half top and full top straps that we need, plus of course tonneau cover. 

 

Randy

Edited August 26 by Randy Flowers

[wdb]

Caterham wind deflectors help -- a little bit. Some folks warm them up and bend them further outwards, which helps -- a little bit. They make the car more of a barn door than it already is also. 

 

I don't see where half doors are going to do much, at least in my case. What I mind in terms of wind buffeting is that it clobbers me in the side of the head. I have a brooklands screen that came with my car; I'm going to try that, with additional face/head protection of some sort. Plus the brooklands just looks like the bee's knees.

[Silber]

I just usually wear a full-face helmet if I know I'll be driving more than just around town with a windscreen and factory Birkin wind deflectors on my 7. It's quieter and I barely notice the buffeting, plus I don't care if it looks goofy.

 

I can say that the wind deflectors make a noticeable difference, but not a significant difference. It's still windy with the deflectors.

 

 

[Randy Flowers]

Well, are the Caterham wind deflectors reducing the wind buffeting enough (just by themselves) to take it from intolerable to tolerable?  I am fine with it being windy.  I drive a Miata as my main car, and I don't think I had the top up 3 times all year last year here in Oregon, so I can handle it being somewhat windy and even rainy, just drive over 30mph   However, of course, the Miata windscreen is much more aerodynamic and funnels the wind away from the cockpit.

I also was looking at the Brooklands dual windscreens last weekend.  I would LOVE to combine this car that already looks like a 1950s race car with a set of true vintage goggles and with the Brooklands, but back to my concern about myself or especially my occasional passenger not getting hurt by flying debris.  Without having tried them, I might find it too windy with an Aeroscreen or the Brooklands as well, just in a different way.  I don't want to wear a helmet while driving nor do I want to have to carry a helmet (or two) with me every time I leave the car out in public.  I want to wear only serious motorcycle glasses and a doo-rag.  I have a pony tail and using true goggles with a head strap wouldn't work well with that, although they would look super cool and vintage.  So, dang it as that would be my go-to choice to try first otherwise.

 

Just how windy and how unpleasant at 60mph is it using the Brooklands type windscreens?  They do look like they block a decent amount of the wind coming straight at you (and hopefully some of the bugs, etc).  It does rain a lot here in Oregon during half the year, but usually a very light rain when it does.  Would just be way better if only considering the regular light rain to have a real windscreen in front of me and an ability to put a top up if caught out in a bad rain storm.  I do want to drive it all winter long on the days that are less rainy.

 

Randy

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 27 by Randy Flowers

[wdb]

How much the wings help depends on how fast you’re going. They make slower speeds much nicer. 

[Randy Flowers]

5 minutes ago, wdb said:

How much the wings help depends on how fast you’re going. They make slower speeds much nicer. 

 

Slower than 60mph?  I would be 100% fine with basically never driving above 60mph and sticking to country roads and roads in towns only (no highways).  Most of the time, I am driving about 45-55mph when out driving it.

[Randy Flowers]

Take a gander at this post about using heat to bend the Caterham wind deflectors out enough such that they do make a big difference.  Deeper into this post someone shows pics and explains exactly how to do it. 

 

https://www.caterhamlotus7.club/forums/topic/217714-wind-deflectors/

 

Note that there is someone responding saying he was using the bent out Caterham deflectors plus half doors and he said that combo was very helpful.  I already do have the half doors, would just have to get them fitted, so I could try that combo for the cost of the Caterham wind deflectors + fitting the half doors. 

 

What does the guy mean by SFBS half doors (what is SFBS?)

 

Randy

[IamScotticus]

I have the deflectors. They don't do enough in my experience. They get in the way.

My solution  is to dress for the wind and sun.  Long sleeves, vest,  head cover, ear plugs, cords for my glasses.  Pretty much what I would wear for a cycle ride, from the waist up.

I think it's a lot easier to do this than re-engineer the car.

 

I have wondered if creating a forward facing edge extending from the wind screen edge would create a  spoiler effect?

Edited August 27 by IamScotticus

[JohnCh]

9 minutes ago, Randy Flowers said:

What does the guy mean by SFBS half doors (what is SFBS?)

 

 

My guess is you transposed two letters and meant to write SBFS, which is Soft Bits for Sevens <https://www.softbitsshop.co.uk/>

[Randy Flowers]

10 minutes ago, JohnCh said:

 

My guess is you transposed two letters and meant to write SBFS, which is Soft Bits for Sevens <https://www.softbitsshop.co.uk/>

 

Ah-ha, yeah, that is it.

 

Thanks

[SENC]

I think "wind" is not the buffeting issue, rather the extreme low pressure pulling in air.  In other words the more you block the wind, the more you're increasing low pressure in the cockpit and the more buffeting introduced.  Thus, brooklands type screens increase wind but decrease buffeting relative to full windscreens.

 

I have wind deflectors from Redline and at certain speeds they do help - but mainly by moving the air flow eddies slightly rather than blocking wind.  I suspect the real answer to addressing the issue when using a full windscreen is not attempting to block more wind but in finding other ways to get air into the cockpit to increase air pressure behind the screen and reduce buffeting from the side and rear.  I've not yet gotten around to trying to develop some sort of scoop to attach to the windshield (like those for Miatas) to pull in air and distribute it down and outward, but thay might be beneficial.  I also like the idea someone else here implemented of a scoop below the car ducting air into each footwear. My bet is either would be multiples better than the side deflectors.

[Silber]

12 hours ago, Randy Flowers said:

Well, are the Caterham wind deflectors reducing the wind buffeting enough (just by themselves) to take it from intolerable to tolerable?  I am fine with it being windy.  I drive a Miata as my main car, and I don't think I had the top up 3 times all year last year here in Oregon, so I can handle it being somewhat windy and even rainy, just drive over 30mph   However, of course, the Miata windscreen is much more aerodynamic and funnels the wind away from the cockpit.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Others have pointed out some good points, but to answer this question, I would say yes, deflectors make the buffeting tolerable. I've had a couple of Miatas and daily drove one for years, and I doubt one could ever get the 7 to be as comfortable wind-wise as a Miata while still keeping the cockpit relatively open.

 

Go with the wind deflectors and if that isn't enough for you add on the half-doors. Beyond that just embrace it as part of the unique experience of driving a 7 :)

[IamScotticus]

Anyone ever tried holes in the floor?