Jenks Posted March 17 Posted March 17 Hello everyone, Not exactly sure what knocked the idea loose in my head, but for the last several weeks I've been exploring different kit car builds. For many reasons I think a 7 fits what I'm looking for, both in terms of the build experience and what I'll have to drive after completion. At this point I'm trying to figure out what kit makes the most sense considering availability, fit and overall cost. I have experience building and road racing purpose built, lightweight, low horsepower formula cars; which is why a 7 is appealing to me. However, I don't really plan on tracking the car much, if ever, so a full blown track setup might not be as good a fit as something more purposed for road driving. I don't imagine I'll do much touring, maybe an overnight trip at most, otherwise mainly fair weather floggings on back roads. Something with a 2.0L engine seems like an appropriate power/weight combination although it's possible I could be swayed either way. If a 2.0L, I understand the main advantages of the dry sump version are added HP and more ground clearance? For fitment considerations I'm 5'11", 195# with a size 12 shoe if I need to think about a larger chassis/footbox/floor pan. I'll be sure to try a car on for size first before making any decisions. I am not interested in a build that involves a donor car or drive train. A Caterham seems like an easy choice although the cost is difficult (for me) to justify. My understanding is a landed 360 or 420 could easily end up around $70K all in. I've heard they keep their resale value but ideally I'd like to build something to keep. I've researched Stalkers a little bit. I like the idea they are US based but are they still in business? The website seems incomplete and I have some questions on the differences in their models. I originally didn't consider them too seriously being that I'm leaning towards a smaller displacement, lighter weight power plant but maybe I should be. A Birkin seems like a possibility from what I think I know so far. I think I like the idea of an IRS as opposed to a de Dion. I've also read up on Westfields. Their new car looks very impressive but it's not available as a kit. I'm not aware of any US distributor and am leery of potential customs implications/costs on a Sport Zetec Final Edition kit. I also think I'd prefer the Duratec. If there are other kits I should consider please chime in. I'm happy to spend more if the quality justifies it; I'm not looking for the cheapest option. Yet, I'm not at all sure on what overall total costs I'll be looking at. A lot of information I've found is quite dated and many of the phone calls I've made to inquire have gone unreturned; which is disappointing and gives me the fear that customer service/support may be lacking after any potential sale. Any and all input is appreciated. Thank you in advance.
JohnCh Posted March 17 Posted March 17 Caterham recently changed their pricing model for the US. If you haven't seen it, read this post that outlines the changes and powertrain prices. You can download the latest US price list at https://caterhamcars.com/us. With the new prices, a stripped 420R starts at $77k delivered. It's not hard to option one over $90k. Calling @Anaximander who has a lot of experience with Stalkers and can likely address those questions In addition to the kits you've mentioned, I'd also investigate the MK and GBS. There are a few people here who own them and can hopefully chime in. Although MK has an option to use a donor Miata, I've heard that many simply purchase the needed parts new. -John 1
CBuff Posted March 18 Posted March 18 @Jenks if you’re in Wisconsin Greg at time machines would likely be your closest caterham dealer. He could talk you thru the new pricing https://timemachinesmotorsports.com i am slightly biased since I got my 420r from him. Josh is Colorado is also great. https://rockymountaincaterham.com I don’t have a lot of info on Mk. https://mksportscarsusa.com @MK Sportscars USA here on site @zootnewton recently go an Mk and loves it. you could also explore some older caterham or similar and do an engine swap or restore to get your hands dirty. That’s well beyond my skill level so I defer to others on the pitfalls with that.
MK Sportscars USA Posted March 18 Posted March 18 Give me a call, I'll answer.... Promise I'm not a pushy salesman, but can get you a pretty close estimate pretty quickly depending on what you have in mind. As @CBuffmentioned, @zootnewton bought a turnkey build from me, @Dipdipdoubleflio just received his as well, about a month ago. I think he's pretty happy with his as well. James 225-366-8670
zootnewton Posted March 18 Posted March 18 @Jenks We are the same height and weight and have similar driving preferences. I test drove S3 & SV Caterhams, MKs, made contact with Birkin & GBS successfully and Westfield & Stalker unsuccessfully. I was in your situation exactly 2 years ago. I spec'd a 360 and 420 and had similar questions regarding dry sump. I went with MK and am extremely happy because it was half the price of Caterham and James @MKSportscarsUSA could not have been easier to deal with. MK has independent rear and inboard front suspension and enough (but no too many) engine options. I'd be up for a call if you'd rather go over things verbally. 1 1
IamScotticus Posted March 18 Posted March 18 A slateboard on wheels is something you definitely should do your best to try b4 you buy. Also, know the titling and registration process for what you get. Too many states processes are too difficult. Try a Polaris Slingshot if casual cruises are your goal. Part of ths reason a Caterham is pricey is it's a race car. There are other skateboards that give you, not the same but, a good wind in the face experience. And Slings have four wheel conversions available. Coming from Formula cars, a Sling may not be your thing, but they are easy to register. You may look in your area for a rental, go driving in traffic, and decide if the skateboard life is for you. A Caterham, and most 7s, are rough rides. A Sling is more comfortable, built for a "wider" range of people. Its almost the perfect toy. They've been here for ten years. Just an honest opinion for someone who is in the shopping phase.
williamwashere Posted March 18 Posted March 18 1 hour ago, IamScotticus said: ...Sling may not be your thing, but they are easy to register. For now... they're talking about banning the Slingshot, Morgan 3-wheeler, etc. https://www.jalopnik.com/2105110/federal-motorcycle-ban-polaris-slingshot/ Write your congressional rep! 1
IamScotticus Posted March 18 Posted March 18 (edited) I supposet this would apply to sidecars too. Four legislators. And I'm ashamed to say, Republicans. WTF boys? We're talking a very small percentage of vehicles. Then have registrations for Autocycles. Edited March 18 by IamScotticus
zootnewton Posted March 18 Posted March 18 The proposed bill does not look scary: https://www.congress.gov/bill/119th-congress/house-bill/3385/text I predict massive backlash if the goal is to remove autocycles from the road. The Bill changes the definition of the word "motorcycle." Nothing else. Nothing to insinuate a ban. I was excited about Elio Motors and I'm a current investor in Aptera so know that I am excited to get my 3-wheeled vehicle. I'm not opposed to differentiating "motorcycle" from "autocycle." I can see a need to differentiate a straddled cycle with handlebars vs a seated position with steering wheel I think Morgan only made around 10,000 3-wheelers in 100 years. So yes, a very small percentage. But it's growing : https://www.gminsights.com/industry-analysis/slingshot-three-wheeled-motorcycle-market
zootnewton Posted March 18 Posted March 18 19 minutes ago, IamScotticus said: Four legislators. Two of them in Wisconsin. Another in Northern Illinois. Harley-Davidson's backyard
panamericano Posted March 18 Posted March 18 I sometimes wonder, will there ever be a year when we do not need any NEW LAWS? Surely we have almost enough? Give the people a rest. Free the left lane!
JohnCh Posted March 18 Posted March 18 Hi Folks, if we want to continue the conversation on the bill impacting three-wheelers, let me know and I'll break it into a separate thread in off topic. Regardless, let's please keep this thread focused on @Jenks questions about Se7ens. 1
Jenks Posted March 19 Author Posted March 19 Thanks to everyone who's chimed in. While I don't hate the idea of a Slingshot, I'd lose out on the build aspect. @zootnewton and @CBuff, thanks for the heads up on MK and thanks to @MK Sportscars USA for answering my questions today. I'm still having difficulty finding Birkin pricing and options. I'll keep looking. Does anyone know if the only GBS kit option for the US is their USA Self Build? It appears this is another Miata donor build and I am leaning towards something that provides a kit that is as complete as possible. I'm not sure if their other complete self builds are meant to be exported or not. After my last rebuild project I've grown fairly weary of disassembling, cleaning and painting repurposed parts.
Jenks Posted March 20 Author Posted March 20 Next question... Any suggestions on US engine suppliers? Preferably new crate engines or reputable rebuilds. Possibilities consisting of but maybe not limited to: Duratec 2.0L (wet or dry sump) Mazda 1.8L (BP-Z3, I believe) Honda K20 or K24 Motorcycle engines probably are not an option, and I think I'll be sticking to normally aspirated.
CBuff Posted March 20 Posted March 20 I defer to those who have done this. @JohnCh you went esslinger I believe https://esslingeracing.com I think mountune is now the official engine supplier of caterham. They or one of the dealers might have some insights https://mountuneusa.com I think both these options are spendy. @Croc has some diamond encrusted jewel in his project.
IamScotticus Posted March 20 Posted March 20 Montune is the USA supplier for Caterham I would still consider the Miata route. There will always be parts.
zootnewton Posted March 20 Posted March 20 Before I bought a donor I was looking at Tennessee JDM Motors for Mazda parts. NOT new. https://tennesseejdmmotors.com/product/01-05-mazda-miata-1-8l-engine-6-speed-manual-transmission-jdm-mazda-bp-motor/ And for Honda engines: https://4pistonracing.com/collections/complete-engines/honda-k-series
IamScotticus Posted March 20 Posted March 20 You have to look at the transmission opinions for these motors. Will they fit in the tunnel? Trans mount type and location. Engine mount bracket location. Will you be able to hav a mount that attaches to the frame without blocking something else? Working out these things is hard to do without the chassis in hand, but if you buy all this stuff and try to cobble something together, you will find that 7s aren't easy to piece together. The absolute best thing you can do is buy a sweet running well assembled 7 for the lowest price you can. Enjoy it until you want more, then flip it. You will be spending your years driving, not years building. In most cases, complete cars sell for a lot less than the original builder spent on it.
MK Sportscars USA Posted March 20 Posted March 20 @IamScotticus All of those engines with a Miata tranny will fit just fine in the MK cars... Kinda hope that's why he's asking. 1
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now