Possible new series 2 owner, with lots of questions

[EdWills]

5 hours ago, IamScotticus said:

Will, not that originality makes any difference in this case, but for future reference, is that serif style of stamp font typical of Universal? 

Hi Scott.  I have not viewed that many frames, (the alloy brake master cylinder casting covers most of them on the angled upper bracket of later Series 2 and 3 cars), and due to security reasons put forward by John Watson, John Donohoe, and others, there are a limited number of photos of stamped frame numbers provided by owners.  

 

J.W. on his Register does show a couple of them - with one welded in the same manner as on randomDMZ's possible purchase.  If this frame proves to be a 1961/1962, the metal letter/number stamps used at that time may have worn out over the years, and been replaced with a different font style or possibly Universal had a couple of sets to use with different fonts?  Only speculation on my part of course.  If J.W. can provide all of the details he has on the car, it will be a great help for @randomDMZ to decide if the purchase is worth it to him.  It would be great to know what J.W. advises.  Cheers W.

[randomDMZ]

9 minutes ago, EdWills said:

Hi Scott.  I have not viewed that many frames, (the alloy brake master cylinder casting covers most of them on the angled upper bracket of later Series 2 and 3 cars), and due to security reasons put forward by John Watson, John Donohoe, and others, there are a limited number of photos of stamped frame numbers provided by owners.  

 

J.W. on his Register does show a couple of them - with one welded in the same manner as on randomDMZ's possible purchase.  If this frame proves to be a 1961/1962, the metal letter/number stamps used at that time may have worn out over the years, and been replaced with a different font style or possibly Universal had a couple of sets to use with different fonts?  Only speculation on my part of course.  If J.W. can provide all of the details he has on the car, it will be a great help for @randomDMZ to decide if the purchase is worth it to him.  It would be great to know what J.W. advises.  Cheers W.

I have not asked his advice yet, but he provided me with a bunch of details and all the numbers match. I also found three other cars almost the exact same serial number and all of them have the same plate and same font. One I know for 100% fact is factory original. The others probably are also but there's not a clear ownership trail from the beginning of time. I'm pretty sure no matter what I'm going to buy the car. I saw the exhaust today, it's pretty bad. But the cylinder head looks great. And is currently at an engine machine shop getting refreshed by the brother of who I bought it from. He's actually the head guy, and specializes in machining vintage engines. 

 

I have confirmed the car was shipped into America white and brush aluminum. I've never seen another one in that paint scheme before but I guess it was popular back then. Seems like most of them have been repainted at this point in time.

[SENC]

Sounds like you're making good headway, well done.  Looking forward to watching your rebuild, hope you'll post a build thread!

[IamScotticus]

Yes, do make a build thread in that forum.

https://usa7s.net/ips/forum/41-build-threads/

[Joe Petty]

10 hours ago, randomDMZ said:

I have not asked his advice yet, but he provided me with a bunch of details and all the numbers match. I also found three other cars almost the exact same serial number and all of them have the same plate and same font. One I know for 100% fact is factory original. The others probably are also but there's not a clear ownership trail from the beginning of time. I'm pretty sure no matter what I'm going to buy the car. I saw the exhaust today, it's pretty bad. But the cylinder head looks great. And is currently at an engine machine shop getting refreshed by the brother of who I bought it from. He's actually the head guy, and specializes in machining vintage engines. 

 

I have confirmed the car was shipped into America white and brush aluminum. I've never seen another one in that paint scheme before but I guess it was popular back then. Seems like most of them have been repainted at this point in time.

 

Wow!  Sounds like a survivor!

 

I'm surprised at the white with aluminum finish.  Not aware that any were sent out in anything but solid colors and very few choices.

The ones you see now-days with polished aluminum (like mine) have probably been reskinned and are kept shiny with modern polishes.

 

My understanding is that kits were sold to avoid the 50% purchase tax on complete vehicles.  Exported vehicles were exempt, so it made sense for Lotus to only assemble cars for export.  The potential USA market for the "7 America" and a reasonable (cheap) entry level racer made the cars attractive.

 

For SCCA racing, this car should have had a roll bar, clutch scatter-shield, cutoff switch...  You may find some of these items or evidence that they have been removed for street use.

Try and figure out why the wide rear fenders.  It was common to replace the Triumph sourced rear axle with something more robust, which may have meant a wider rear track.  Check that front and rear wheel bolt patterns are the same.

 

I'm sticking to my bonnet defroster theory on the twin bumps.  I don't think BMC engines make a lot of heat and louvers or side NACA ducts would be an easier (?) and more conventional solution.  Could this have been used for ice racing?  

 

As I mentioned before,  lots of date codes on Lucas electrical equipment.  Most of them will be within 3 months of the ex-works date.

Also, my 6/62 frame is U1249, so you would think that U1148 would be earlier.

 

For my car I have history from 1971 to present, but (thanks to John Watson and Andy Graham) I have the original owner's name and address from 6/62 but have not been able to locate him or any one in the 1962-1971 gap.

Like these folks have said, root around and look for anything that may possibly be helpful in filling in provenance.

 

Regards and Good Luck with the project!

 

[randomDMZ]

5 hours ago, Joe Petty said:

 

Wow!  Sounds like a survivor!

 

I'm surprised at the white with aluminum finish.  Not aware that any were sent out in anything but solid colors and very few choices.

The ones you see now-days with polished aluminum (like mine) have probably been reskinned and are kept shiny with modern polishes.

 

My understanding is that kits were sold to avoid the 50% purchase tax on complete vehicles.  Exported vehicles were exempt, so it made sense for Lotus to only assemble cars for export.  The potential USA market for the "7 America" and a reasonable (cheap) entry level racer made the cars attractive.

 

For SCCA racing, this car should have had a roll bar, clutch scatter-shield, cutoff switch...  You may find some of these items or evidence that they have been removed for street use.

Try and figure out why the wide rear fenders.  It was common to replace the Triumph sourced rear axle with something more robust, which may have meant a wider rear track.  Check that front and rear wheel bolt patterns are the same.

 

I'm sticking to my bonnet defroster theory on the twin bumps.  I don't think BMC engines make a lot of heat and louvers or side NACA ducts would be an easier (?) and more conventional solution.  Could this have been used for ice racing?  

 

As I mentioned before,  lots of date codes on Lucas electrical equipment.  Most of them will be within 3 months of the ex-works date.

Also, my 6/62 frame is U1249, so you would think that U1148 would be earlier.

 

For my car I have history from 1971 to present, but (thanks to John Watson and Andy Graham) I have the original owner's name and address from 6/62 but have not been able to locate him or any one in the 1962-1971 gap.

Like these folks have said, root around and look for anything that may possibly be helpful in filling in provenance.

 

Regards and Good Luck with the project!

 

I believe the rear end was swapped out for a Ford rear end. The car has the original fenders with it they're in disrepair. There's also a roll bar, it's just not currently on the vehicle, and there's also the frame for the canopy. The two bumps on the hood came from one of the guys that made the rules for the scca back in the sixties. 

 

CHASSIS #: SB1156

FRAME #: U1148

BODY TYPE: Mk.7

COLOUR: Cirrus White (& bare aluminium)

ENGINE #: AEA17RS/19584 Sprite (Mark One 948cc)

Duchess Autos 4th December 1961.

 

 

[theDreamer]

It makes sense that cars being shipped overseas would be completely built and painted as Colin never missed a chance to up charge a customer.

However, as a young boy I clearly remember seeing 6's and 7's racing in bare alloy. Also, Lotus 7 ads in the back of magazines like Road and Track as well as Car and Driver showing all the components, sometimes less drive train. The text exclaiming the virtues of such an inexpensive kit where you just add your own donner Triumph, MG or similar driveline. Although these were always in black and white it was very evident that the chassis was covered in bare aluminum.

Similarly, I can see an individual trying to save a few dollars by not having a completed car fully painted.

 

randomDMZ sounds like you have yourself a new, honest to goodness, Lotus 7 project. Looking forward to hearing about the cars history as you discover it as well as being brought back to life.

Edited Monday at 06:39 PM by theDreamer

[pethier]

26 minutes ago, randomDMZ said:

The two bumps on the hood came from one of the guys that made the rules for the scca back in the sixties. 

I would like to see this statement fleshed out a little, as I really don't understand what it means.

[theDreamer]

I see four bumps in total. The two smaller ones in-line by the intake scoop might, as has been suggested, be to clear twin SU carbs. However, it’s the two large ones in front of the scuttle that have me perplexed. They are above the shelf in the engine bay and I cannot think what might have been there that would required such height.

Like I said, I'm very interested to learn this cars history.

[SENC]

I'd guess either attempting to vent heat out of the engine bay after the larger engine was installed (note the additional fan mounting in the nose) or, as was stated earlier, some attempt to get heat on the windshield (note the heater box that would be centered below and between them.

[11Budlite]

8 hours ago, Joe Petty said:

I'm sticking to my bonnet defroster theory on the twin bumps.  I don't think BMC engines make a lot of heat and louvers or side NACA ducts would be an easier (?) and more conventional solution.  Could this have been used for ice racing?  

 

I think this is the most plausible answer for the two bumps at the back of the bonnet. I would assume there are openings at the rear to let heat out and possibly defrost the windshield. I can't think of any other reason to have those two bumps.

[pethier]

58 minutes ago, SENC said:

I'd guess either attempting to vent heat out of the engine bay after the larger engine was installed (note the additional fan mounting in the nose) or, as was stated earlier, some attempt to get heat on the windshield (note the heater box that would be centered below and between them.

I have never seen a defroster that worked from the OUTside of the glass, but you never know.

 

Yes, I know I have electrical wires INside my Caterham windscreen.

[randomDMZ]

5 hours ago, pethier said:

I would like to see this statement fleshed out a little, as I really don't understand what it means.

I was talking to somebody online who said that he knew what those bumps were for. He explained to me those bumps were for removing heat from the engine bay. And that they were against scca rules because of some rule changes and that he was involved with the rule changes. Beyond that I don't actually know I'm just saying what somebody else told me. Yes the other two bumps are to clear the carburetors

[EdWills]

@randomDMZ.  Well done with your investigation.  Sometimes frustrating trying to find out about the history of a car, but great detective work on your part in this case.

 

It would seem that in the U.K. with the drying up of Standard axles that were prone to breakage, a number of Series 2 owners there chose to install a wider Ford unit, with corresponding Series 3 rear wings.  

 

Only a general question, but are there any Japanese sourced rear axles that would work?  I believe that Caterham (and Lotus) attempted to source as many U.K. manufactured components as they could for their cars, but Lotus, later under foreign ownership, did turn to Toyota for engine/transmissions and possibly others?  @IamScotticus has done a lot of research on the Ital/Marina axle.  Caterham chose it for their 7 after the Ford unit, so, if supplies can be found, this may be the way to return to 'original'.

Cheers, W.

[IamScotticus]

 

My notes on LA alternatives contributed by posters over the years:

 

1985 Corolla GTS "AE86"(4.25)

Rear Wheel Drive Corolla GTI, which is known as the "AE86" by all of the Toyota buffs.

 

RX-7 GSL (4.25)

If you looking to keep originality I understand, but if you want a good light strong axle look to the early RX-7. If you get the GSL-SE model they come with disk brakes and a LSD.

 

* a caution on LSD, just because there is a plate LSD is not a reason to pursue it.  The ramp angles are tuned for the original application which is a much heavier car.  I was advised by Arnie Webb that 7s like 0° exit ramp because we come off the the throttle si quickly.  In most cases, an open diff is adequate. I could be wrong.

 

 

MV8:

You might consider an axle conversion to an equivalent that came with a 4.30 ratio (maximium), like the Toyota 10 bolt 6.7" ring gear axle used in dwarf cars, just not severely shortened on the right side. For a used axle, look at 82 and older corona, 84-87 corolla GTS, 74-79 SR5, 71-85 celica ST and GT. I expect there are parts available for these for racing. They came with either two or four spider gears and an open or limited slip.

 

A Ford 8 inch is a common axle here that is built like the famous ford 9 inch only smaller and lighter. I think it was used in the H&S Seven.

 

 

Birkin factory in South Africa that the rear axle was a newly manufactured unit as used in a Toyota Hilux minivan manufactured and sold in South Africa. The only ratios I have ever known of for those rear ends were the two that came in solid axle Birkins. 4.11:1 until early/mid 2000, then 3.89:1. My kit landed in the US in September of 2000, and it has a 3.89

 

I have heard some mentions of Datsun B series axles, but good luck finding those.

 

I may update this post later wirh more info.

 

 

 

 

Edited 23 hours ago by IamScotticus