What is the price of the SR27?

[Deman USA]

What would one spend on a SR27. I would like to know what price tag would sell the SR27.

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[slngsht]

Alright - I'm gonna show my ignorance here, but only in the interest of helping...

 

How much is a base Deman - assembled?

 

Is there more than - say 20K in upgrades, including drivetrain and all the little extras like HID, etc...?

 

I saw the car at the dragon, and it is, well, impressive looking. I wish I had a chance to drive it.

 

 

[Mondo]

That particular one is for sale and it's their demo, with all the trick stuff. They wanted 39 big ones for it

 

 

http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/Default.aspx?g=posts&t=2197

 

 

 

 

[Mondo]

When you were asking $39, is that what you would of sold a new turnkey with those options? I'm going to assume you have more into it (with labor).

 

As a demo, I would think someone would want to take 5 or 10 grand off the turnkey cost of buying a brand spanking new one of similar quality.

 

Also, if your just starting out (I don't know much about your company) I would imagine you need to start cheaper than most other companies to get people to take a chance on your product and build up a base of loyal customers who can spread the word and promote your car. How much less depends on what it takes to get someone to risk their hard earned money. I don't have an idea on that.

 

Thats how I chose the Ultralite; looked at styling, price, talked to owners, reviewed reliability/performance, options like weatherkit (would of been nice to drive them all but that's not likely)...

 

Just my 2 cents, from someone who recently bought a 7. Hope that helps. Your car does have a lot going for it. Good luck!

[Al N.]

Dino & Paul-

 

Having recently sold my well sorted/well upgraded/very lightly used Caterham Superlight and watching some of the action on other cars for sale here, I have the following observations about the Se7ens marketplace circa Spring 2008...

 

For starters, it's relatively easy to sell a car under $30k. It's very tough to sell one over $40k — EVEN THOUGH THAT CAR MAY BE $20-30K MORE CAR than the cheaper ones. It seems like, when it comes to thoroughly single purpose cars like ours, people have a price threshold in their head (and perhaps their checkbook) that they can't exceed.

 

For example, there was a nice crossflow Caterham listed at $27K recently here from the west coast that sold pretty quickly. Let's assume it sold for $25K....then take my old car, which had full carbon everything, the hottest motor Caterham USA offered in 2004, plus several key upgrades including a $7500 fuel cell (when you count parts and installation), AND a 6-speed box. No offense to the buyer or seller of the ali & yellow car, but Orange would eat that thing for breakfast, lunch, and dinner in terms of pure performance. And it was 13 years newer and had wide track suspension, big brakes, etc.

 

But it took me 2 months to find a buyer for Orange...whereas that car sold in a week. I intentionally did not list price in my listings at first....and while I got many calls and emails early on, most people were like "I was looking to spend $35Kish"...and while yes, I've seen some Superlights sell for the mid $30K range, those were A) bargains for the new owners, B) lacking some feature or other I had on my car (full windshield or 6 speed or fuel cell). Fortunately, I could afford to wait to find a buyer who would appreciate the condition and state of tune/prep of my car.

 

The other thing I've noticed is that the less common brands seem to be a harder sell too. In some ways, I think that's a partially a fault of our hobby. After all, everyone who has been around a few of the brands knows that there are amazing non-Caterham/Birkin (the most common names) cars out there. And I've seen some Cats/Birks that were rough too. But perhaps to the casual fan...the person who is intrigued with our little cars and wants to dip a toe in...maybe they need to see the Caterham or Birkin name to feel good about the purchase.

 

There have been a few Stalkers and WCMs changing hands, which is a good sign — but really, to see that Orange Westfield (with a bulletproof Miata drivetrain and leather buckets which make my old Tillett look like the pieces of plastic they are) languish in the market in the mid $20Ks is a bit sickening.

 

People are going to buy the SR27 based on pure performance reasons. You don't have a Caterham or Birkin or even the Westfield lineage story. WCM and Brunton seem to be building good reputations based on performance/powertrain durability/accessibility/customer service/owners community....both are sub $40K cars (by and large, please correct me if I'm wrong). So pricing the SR27 in a similar manner might work. Maybe not the answer you wanted to hear...but just my 2¢.

 

The other thing to consider is to do more PR — whether actively courting media or doing something like One Lap — I'm sure Brian and Jerre are going to get a lot more interest thanks to Kevin and Michelle's recent performance.

 

-Al

 

 

 

[Kitcat]

Ditto what Al said. As a recent buyer and long time admirer of all things Seven, the factors that influenced my purchase last year were, in order of importance:

 

1] Initial buy in cost-in my case $22.5K-Much easier to convince a sceptical spouse that a car that is so impractical is worth taking out a 2nd mortgage on the home (wh/I did) to buy if that mortgage isn't too big. As much as I loved Al's car, had it been available last year, the (reasonable) asking price would have prevented its purchase.

 

2] Resale value. Thanks to the Caterham name, I expect I will not take much of a hit if I sell it. Part of the argument to the spouse.

 

3] Product support. Lots of Caterham Crossflows out there, people to talk to abt problems and a skeletal dealership.

 

4]. Condition/looks. I was mesmerized by the Cat I bought. I looked at the for-sale photos every am right after I woke up and every nite before going to bed. I was in love!

 

5} Performance.

 

 

Your car has the performance part nailed. Why not brag about it? What are 1/4 mile times, 0-60, lap times at favorite tracks, auto-X successes? All we know is its really, really fast. Quantify that.

 

As you may know, I think the photos of your car are stunning.

 

Price- make it as close to $30K as you can get and really be specific about the performance. Based on specs it should kill just about everything out there. Who wouldn't want an uber dog? That's what all of our upgrade-itis is about.

 

Mike

 

[supersportsp]

Al, I am new here, but I looked very hard at the DeDion here in Seattle and drove it. I was prepared to buy it, but not at the price the seller was asking. I was banking that I could get him down to $23k if he sat on it for awhile. It was a very nice car, solidly built by the seller himself and drove/presented well. For someone looking for a classic Caterham it was right on the money. I wanted a Caterham, but I wanted something more like your car in the $30k or less range. Cycle fenders, 180+ hp motor, wide track etc.

 

If I could have gotten the car probably at $24k, I would have pulled the trigger, but the owner wouldn't go down more than $500. Then I saw the guy from the Bay Area who posted on their local Caterham site looking for basically this exact car at that price. I knew it was only a matter of time before he found the one here. I think what you had was the perfect buyer for the perfect car. I was looking for a deal so I could update how I wanted, he wanted a DeDion Caterham for under $30k.

 

If I could justify the greater expense, I would have been very interested in your car.

[JohnCh]

Al and Mike make two great points: price sensitivity when you break the $30k barrier, and people finding comfort in a larger installed base. Let’s face it, unless you are extremely hardcore, a se7en is bought as a recreational device. Given that the average price of a new car is mid to upper $20k’s, spending more than that on a toy is a bit tough psychologically for a lot of folks – even if they have sufficient disposable income.

 

As for the installed base, although some people enjoy being an early adopter, most find comfort in knowing they aren’t a guinea pig. They like having a large knowledge base out there to tap when something goes wrong or they have a question. Somewhat ironically, one of the reasons I bought a Westfield was because I didn’t want to be an early adopter. Westfield has been around for over 25 years, builds 400-500 cars per year, employs 5o people, and the club forum has 6500 registered users – i.e. they have a long track record and a solid customer support base. The irony is that here in the US, they really haven’t made many inroads, so they are often viewed as a very minor player without these assets in place. I think that misperception is one of the reasons why the orange car hasn’t moved yet.

 

The Deman looks good and by all accounts is a very well built, great driving vehicle, but couple a price well over $30k without a track record and the addressable market becomes quite small. That doesn’t mean it isn’t worth the money, but finding the right buyer may take a while.

 

-John

 

[DavidL]

To add to the conversation, I'm the guy who bought the Seattle XFlow Caterham. I paid $26,000 for it. That seemed like a bit of a premium over some recent sales on the East Coast (there was a 40th anniversary XFlow advertised here for $24K in the fall), but California smog rules are a bear, and this car was registered in a way that I could bring it into CA. Good condition, original owner, plus the lack of cars for sale in California in the last 6 months figured into my decision. I'd have loved an injected Duratec or Zetec, but they are routinely well over $30K, which is out of range for me at the moment.

 

There was a Superlight (with a Zetec) for sale near Monterey a year ago for the seemingly good price of $25K. I drove that car but passed becasue of condition ... it had hit a dear and had smashed carbon fiber, bent and rusty suspension arms, and as the new owner reported, a cooked engine.

 

 

---David

 

[Al N.]

David-

 

Again, no offense intended in the comparison between your new car and my old one.

 

The "sweet spot" for Se7ens is I think in that mid $20Ks range that you bought in. It may be a factor of how good the basic cars are that the "envelope pushers" like the SR27 (or the Superlight) have a smaller appeal.

 

Good cars bought in the mid $20K price range will hold their value well. In fact, that's the range that I am pricing out for whatever's next...

 

It's either that, or bite the bullet again and do an r500 type thing. Oh, behave!

 

-Al

[Robert O. Urfer]

As someone who just recently sold a Rotus on ebay. I would say, put the car on ebay and see what the market will bear. I had inquiries from so many people that had no idea these forums exist and they have money. Needless to say I sold my car for more than twice what I had in it and I had a line of people to buy it. My first buyer backed out and the second buyer drove here with CASH and a trailer the day I called him.

 

In my opinion your car is worth $30,000 Because it looks to be top quality and just plain bad ass! but it's something not many have seen or heard of and has little history. If your goal is to build these cars and sell them in quantity, I would reccomend either going super high end and asking $100,000 for a hand built bad ass car or sell a few of them for little or no profit and get some cars out and create some excitement.

 

Those are my thoughts. I would love to have the SR27 in my stable, unfortunately It is not in the budget for probably 2 to 5 years.

[Boxologist]

oversimplified, the price is what ever someone will pay.

 

There are few market subsets in the land of se7en ownership in north america. pick ur market. u can build little extras to cover some overlap with those consumers.

 

If u are trying to compete with Caterham, Birkin, and Westfield, the R&D on performance, maintenance, and livability must be done. From last years ToTD and the posts that u guys have kept us semi up to date, its reliable, Ke7in has testified to its performance on the street, and i beleive u said that u wear making weathergear for the SR27.

 

My biggest suggestion ties into the promotion of the car. articles and advertising only go so far. u want to get attention from the performance crowd, u must demonstrate the car at those events. Continue with attending Run n Gun and Ultimate Track Car Challenge. U may want to consider One Lap of America. thats a few events. take the ball that Caterham USA dropped (w/ the CSR) IMO, run the car at the SCCA Run Offs or Solo2 Nationals. Run in various NASA races.

 

Display the car at the large car shows where old money walks. Lime Rock Historics weekend. The weekend Cars and Coffee shows.

 

It will take a great while for word of mouth to bring up a new marquee to the level that Brunton and WCM have been able to acheive. but it will be another tireless endeavor that many of us think u will be successful in.

 

if u can have a barebones stage 1 turnkey for about $40k, i think its feasable. slow growth, but similar performance from Caterham has a higher price. i forget what a FM Westfield will cost to start out.

[Deman USA]

I would like to thank all of you for your input. We were wondering what price we would be able to sell our cars for. We have been in the process of designing our full race version which will be all wheel drive powered by our big brother engine out of a Nissan Skyline.

We have been getting alot of interest in the SR27, and we think its time to start the new line of 7's.

Once again, your input is very much appreciated.

Dino

 

[Mondo]

All wheel drive:shocked: That should be interesting. Looks like your going after the "badass category":thumbs:

 

 

 

[racerdad]

Hi Dino, I love your car! If you are serious about selling it you may want to post it on the SCCA Sports Car Magazine site or in NASA Grass Roots Motorsports Mag. You may even want to contact Curt Scott @ Cobra Country, once in a while he will list a non-Cobra car. We have had 8 Cobras [some authentic, some reproductions] and we have found this site to be an awesome resource, esp. when trying to sell... Tell Curt we sent you, he really is a super guy! Many of the people looking @ this site are just looking for a "freedom machine"...and it just can't get any better than a 289 Cobra or a Lotus 7. Good luck, Todd

[Al N.]

I would like to thank all of you for your input. We were wondering what price we would be able to sell our cars for.

 

Dino...I think the discussion so far has highlighted a few price considerations for you.

 

For starters, getting a sub $30k car done would be a good move for Deman USA. Doing so would help you get an "installed base" that John Ch. refers to.

 

I think upmarket moves are interesting, but those sales will be more difficult and perhaps few and far between. If you did base a Se7en on "Godzilla" (the GTR)...I fear the price would be very high. And unless you're running 315s in the rear like Mr. Ebrahimi, you won't be able to put the power down.

 

A four wheel drive Seven? Maybe if that's what you need to put traction down....but not quite adding lightness/simplifcating.

 

 

 

[supersportsp]

To add to the conversation, I'm the guy who bought the Seattle XFlow Caterham. I paid $26,000 for it. That seemed like a bit of a premium over some recent sales on the East Coast (there was a 40th anniversary XFlow advertised here for $24K in the fall), but California smog rules are a bear, and this car was registered in a way that I could bring it into CA. Good condition, original owner, plus the lack of cars for sale in California in the last 6 months figured into my decision. I'd have loved an injected Duratec or Zetec, but they are routinely well over $30K, which is out of range for me at the moment.

 

There was a Superlight (with a Zetec) for sale near Monterey a year ago for the seemingly good price of $25K. I drove that car but passed becasue of condition ... it had hit a dear and had smashed carbon fiber, bent and rusty suspension arms, and as the new owner reported, a cooked engine.

 

 

---David

 

DavidL, you ruined my scheming plans...damn you!!! And enjoy the car. It is in awfully nice shape. Get some new tires though, they were not.

 

I think if I had fit in it without issue, I might have bucked up for the price. JohnCH and I went back and fourth about this for about a week.

[supersportsp]

On the actual subject of SR27 pricing, I have this input.

 

Make a sub $30k car with a normally aspirated engine. Turbos are great and all (I have a 92x Aero and GTI 1.8T in the household), but for driving pleasure, I find the N/A motor to be much more appealing.

 

Driving a Se7en is a pretty involving process already. They are very quick, twitchy, cramped in the cockpit, generally requiring a good deal of concentration. The simplicity of not having to deal with turbo power drive-ability issues like lag, big power hits etc. is preferable to me in a car like this.

 

I want a car with instant throttle response, smooth consistent power delivery etc. Lotus and Caterham have using this formula for 40+ years now. I would say it works.

[BobDrye]

On the actual subject of SR27 pricing, I have this input.

 

Make a sub $30k car with a normally aspirated engine. Turbos are great and all (I have a 92x Aero and GTI 1.8T in the household), but for driving pleasure, I find the N/A motor to be much more appealing.

 

Driving a Se7en is a pretty involving process already. They are very quick, twitchy, cramped in the cockpit, generally requiring a good deal of concentration. The simplicity of not having to deal with turbo power drive-ability issues like lag, big power hits etc. is preferable to me in a car like this.

 

I want a car with instant throttle response, smooth consistent power delivery etc. Lotus and Caterham have using this formula for 40+ years now. I would say it works.

 

 

 

Driving a seven with out a turbo is like sex without a tongue!

 

 

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[Deman USA]

I like your analogy Bob.

Dino