Caterham USA Pricing

[jturrell]

I've been looking at Caterhams for a while now and I was hoping someone might shed some light on what I perceive as big differences in the prices in the UK vs. the US.

 

If we look at a basic Superlight R300, this car goes for about 24,000 pounds in the UK. At today's exchange rate of around 1.49, that's roughly $37,500. I believe this is with engine & transmission and fully assembled. (Please tell me if this is incorrect in the UK.)

 

If I look at the same car in the states, it's $43,420, unassembled with no engine or transmission. If we assume around $8,000 for engine and transmission and about $5,000 for assembly, we're up to $56,420. That's a difference of almost $19,000.

 

Some questions:

 

1) Are my assumptions correct? Is that what I would expect to pay for an engine / transmission package from Caterham?

 

2) Why such a huge price difference, assuming my assumptions are reasonably close?

 

3) Is Caterham selling many new cars in the states?

 

I'd love to own one some day, but the prices seem a little out-of-touch. Am I wrong?

 

 

EDIT - I just saw that the factory build is a 2,500 pound option. So we're off on pricing by around $15,250, and not $19,000. Still a wide margin though.

[yellowss7]

And depending on engine spec and gearbox choice, I think your $8K is way light.

 

I tried to price one last night. and I came in around $62K+ for a superlight with 200 hp. (Guessing on the engine, but the Cosworth site has that engine at over 10K alone)

 

Oh, and BTW that doesn't inclued State tax and shipping (where applicable, and I had to pay Custom duties when I picked mine up. Just noticed you're in Texas so State tax doesn't apply to you.

 

For reference, in 2000, all in my Superlight with 6 speed and approx 200 horsepower, was about $55k.

 

Tom

[JohnCh]

$8000 does sound really low. The R300 comes with the 6–speed which is about 2500GBP directly from Caterham. My guess is that the price of the R300 Duratec (which must be pretty basic given the 175hp output) will be similar to the outgoing SVT, which I think was about $11-12k with a 6-speed. I’m sure someone here will chime in with the actual price.

 

As for currency fluctuations, it’s a tricky game. Go back just 4 months to July 18th and the GBP was worth $2, or 33% more than today. If Caterham USA were to adjust the price down from the July numbers to account for the renewed strength of the USD and keep their margins constant, then the poor guy who bought his car 4 months ago would have just taken a massive depreciation hit. His $60,000 car in July would now cost just $45,000 new, which means his car’s resale value took an additional $15k hit. I don’t think he would be very happy.

 

Tying the price of the car directly to the GBP also means that the car price keeps changing while the potential buyer is deciding whether or not to purchase. My bet is that the sales cycle for a se7en is fairly long. Sure some people make the decision quickly, but based on what I have seen on the various forums, people seem to think about the purchase for quite a while before placing an order. Throwing currency fluctuations into the mix increases the complexity of the buy decisions. If the GBP is decreasing, then the buyer may hold off making the purchase because he’s hoping the price will fall further if he waits just a little longer. Long sales cycles are not good for sellers due to externalities that can affect the purchase (customer faces unexpected expenses, has a job change, wife files for divorce because he is spending too much time obsessing about the se7en rather than paying attention her, etc.) If the USD is declining, then the level of the financial commitment is increasing before the customer’s eyes and he may find himself priced out of the market by the time he is mentally ready to pull the trigger.

 

-John

[scannon]

Consider that Caterham makes a profit on every car it manufactures while Caterham USA makes a profit on a small percentage of those cars.

 

In addition, Caterham USA has to add on import duties, broker fees, freight across the pond as well as freight to either Denver or direct to the customer. There are probably a few other expenses I'm not aware of. It doesn't surprise me that they cost so much more in the USA.

 

Skip

[manik]

John and Skip are absolutely correct. There are a lot of additional costs and factors involved, and you really cannot compare U.K. and U.S. pricing unfortunately.

 

 

tm

[pksurveyor]

The difference is around $ 16,000 to $ 18,000 between the UK and USA pricing. The additional cost comes from oversea freight, custom duty, packing expense, dollar vs. pound, and engine choice. My 2009 Caterham SV is near $ 70,000 by the time all the numbers are added up.

 

[BusaNostra]

If you are really serious buying a seven:

 

Here is what I did, I bought a cheapticket. Went for a short vacation in England.

I went to the factory, bought the whole 9 yards (no engine-no tranny). They helped

box the kit with no charge. Send the box to their shipping broker (paid the shipper). I picked the box

at the airport cargo (here in the US). I only paid $250. to the custom because they declared

the box as an auto parts.

 

I saved a ton.

[Ian7]

I've been looking at Caterhams for a while now ...

 

A lot depends on what you want the car for. Differences between England and USA notwithstanding, the $ range I don't understand is the difference across Caterham models.

Sure you can option up a $75k+ killer car, but there are some really nice Zetec's for sale for under $30k, and its hard to believe that they aren't wonderfully enjoyable.

(My live axle x-flow might be too spartan / slow /crude for some, but it too is a blast to drive).

[jturrell]

I understand shipping, customs, etc, and I would expect a difference in price appropriate for those costs. But if you look at other British car manufacturers, the price gap is much narrower. For example, a new Lotus Elise SC has a price difference of about $3,750.

 

To put it in perspective . . . . in the UK, a new Superlight R300 would be about $9,000 LESS than a Lotus Elise SC.

In the US, it's the other way around. The R300 would cost much more.

 

My theory? Lotus has made a committment to selling a lot of cars in the US. Caterham has not. I keep wondering if that will change as the world economy deteriorates? I think I'm too much of a bargain shopper to ever own a Caterham.

[yellowss7]

Ian, is right on. I'm glad I speced my car the way I did, But I paid top dollar to do it.

 

You can buy a very nice car like Al's old one,(sorry, Mopho's) and get a great deal compared to specing a new one at the same level.

 

An I know it's contra to the party line, but 150 hp is plenty for a street going/autoxing seven. Even though I like the power level of mine, I've driven 135-150hp cars that seemed to handle better because I couldn't overdrive them. IMO.

 

If you're into the build process, you could alway disasemble the used one,clean it up and put it back together. You get the same experience and you're sure that you have all the parts. (that's not a given with a new kit btw) As I've said before, the Caterhams are like a toy model kit. If you have all the pieces, it's just putting them together. It's not like the projects that some of the really talented people on this board have completed.

 

The one that's listed in Hemmings looks like a nice car for $28K and It's Yellow too,so what's not to like. Tom

 

Plus you can always upgrade as the urge hits.

 

[jturrell]

If you are really serious buying a seven:

 

Here is what I did, I bought a cheapticket. Went for a short vacation in England.

I went to the factory, bought the whole 9 yards (no engine-no tranny). They helped

box the kit with no charge. Send the box to their shipping broker (paid the shipper). I picked the box

at the airport cargo (here in the US). I only paid $250. to the custom because they declared

the box as an auto parts.

 

I saved a ton.

 

Now, if I can figure out a way to make the trip to England a business trip, I'll really save some money . . . .

 

I'm glad to know this might be an option. It's pretty clear that shipping, customs, etc, don't add up to the price difference. The exchange rate is certainly part of the equation, but as that gets better, your solution just provides additional savings.

[jturrell]

You can buy a very nice car like Al's old one,(sorry, Mopho's) and get a great deal compared to specing a new one at the same level.

 

If I could go back in time and beat Mopho to the punch on Al's car, I would. Before that transaction there were even better deals (several Superlights traded hands in the $35k range). Unfortunately, those prices are no longer a reality, and cars like Mopho's don't come on the market very often. I have unsuccessfully tried to talk more than one person on this board out of their Superlight . . . .

[Ian7]

 

A lot depends on what you want the car for. Differences between England and USA notwithstanding, the $ range I don't understand is the difference across Caterham models.

Sure you can option up a $75k+ killer car, but there are some really nice Zetec's for sale for under $30k, and its hard to believe that they aren't wonderfully enjoyable.

(My live axle x-flow might be too spartan / slow /crude for some, but it too is a blast to drive).

 

... and I should have addressed your primary concern:

 

I too cannot fathom the difference as it crosses the pond. I've shipped entire cars from england without the benefit of economies of scale or wholesale pricing, etc and it sure isn't $15k.

 

I guess what it truly reflects is free market economy,

"I've got this, I want this much for it; too much for you? fine, don't buy it" attitude.

 

I wanted a Caterham bad enough to pay 30, but not bad enough to pay 60. Everyone's got their window of tolerance

 

[pksurveyor]

I agreed with Yellowss7 - "I know it's contra to the party line, but 150 hp is plenty for a street going/autoxing seven. Even though I like the power level of mine, I've driven 135-150hp cars that seemed to handle better because I couldn't overdrive them. "

 

My silver Caterham with the 147 hp Zetec is easier to drive on the street and it is plenty fast on the track. My green Caterham with 205 hp SVT is faster but it requires a little more fitness around town to be smooth.

[yellowss7]

Just remember that the "Superlight" was a level of options. All Seven's have the same basic chassis. The Superlight spec had carbon dash, wings, etc. Check out the standard items list on Caterham's website. It lists the standard and optional items.

 

The original UK superlight was a 133 horsepowered version. The Superlight R was a 190. The R500 was 242 hp.

 

They later rebadged them as R300, R400, R500.

 

My 2000 superlight did come with a numbered badge for the dash that shows it as Superlight #123. Other than that, you could spec or buy the options to get to that level of trim. If you look at mine, you'll see that I added the clamshell front wings, and I also have the widetrack front suspension, which, from what I was told, I was the first to do that. Normally, widetrack is just for the cycle wing setup.

 

Even then, some of the options are probably unnecessary, like the upgraded ventilated front discs and big brakes. Again IMO.

[BusaNostra]

"Now, if I can figure out a way to make the trip to England a business trip, I'll really save some money . . . . "

 

 

 

Don't tell the Congress you are also taking a private plane.:lol:

 

By the way, the big three will not appreciate you buying Caterham.

They need your money in Detroit!!

[Boxologist]

"Now, if I can figure out a way to make the trip to England a business trip, I'll really save some money . . . . "

 

 

 

Don't tell the Congress you are also taking a private plane.:lol:

 

By the way, the big three will not appreciate you buying Caterham.

They need your money in Detroit!!

 

while se7ens may be made north of teh border, there ain't no se7ens being made in detroit. or anything close to it yet.

 

edit: every time i price out a new Caterham, i end up close to the 80-90k region because with my first 7 i've realised what i want. Everything. well, maybe the heater can be skipped.:yesnod:

[Doug Bond]

In process of building a Caterham Roadsport with 210 duratec, and seveal upgrades which include wide track/superlight suspension, LSD, Carbon dash and more. Finished car will be same as a Superlight without the carbon fenders and racing seats. Yes, I could wait several years and hope the dollar continues to drop against the pound but I wouldnt have my car. Ive waited for this car since I was 20 years old so why wait. Get it if you want it or keep waiting thinking the price will drop. It wont. Look at the price of these cars 20 years ago. They dont go down

[MHKflyer52]

Ive waited for this car since I was 20 years old so why wait. Get it if you want it or keep waiting thinking the price will drop. It wont. Look at the price of these cars 20 years ago. They dont go down

 

Well said Doug and by the way glad to hear that your building a 7 and have joined this forum.

When you get the time post up some photos of your build as a lot of the members will appreciate seeing the photos of your car.

 

[jturrell]

Get it if you want it or keep waiting thinking the price will drop.

 

Doug - congrats on your car. I can certainly appreciate the buy it now and enjoy it now approach. I've been there. But having been the victim of British car depreciation in the past, I don't want to pay more than I have to. If that means I need to wait for a good deal or get creative on where I source the car . . . well, I've learned to be patient.

 

Just one more illustration of my point, and I'll stop beating this dead horse . . .

 

- An R500 in the UK costs about $57,000.

- An R500 in the States costs about $61,000.

 

What's the difference? In the UK, you get an engine and transmission (and a few grand left in your pocket). :yesnod: