Se7en4me Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 Hi all, new member here. :seeya: Joined and paid to solicit some advice. Not an owner yet, but interested. So here goes: http://www.texasmotorworks7.com/Inventory.aspx Of the three reasonably priced specimens in the 20-25k range, which would you recommend and why? Are the prices ok? I'm in Texas, so this shop would be close (sort of, Texas is kinda big...) My intended usage would be fun day driving, ax and track day (couple a year). I currently own 2 miatas and ax and HPDE with them... Been lurking and reading for a while now. I'm not much of a mechanic, prefer to have the competent guys do the work and I write the check and have fun... What say ye? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xcarguy Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 (edited) I've personally looked at the cars Dick is currently offering and have driven a couple of his cars that have previoulsly sold. For a driver, ax and occasional track use, look at the green S-3 with the SVT engine (200hp). My thoughts. Edited July 17, 2013 by xcarguy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davemk1 Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 I'd go and drive them and see what fits you best and what feels the best. In the end Dick is very good to do business with. I bought my Birkin from him and would do so again in a heartbeat. dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitcat Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 All are nice, Caterham MAY have some slight advantage for having the Caterham name. And it had a more serious rollover bar. Both need an anchor strap if you are serious about maximizing safety at the track (5pt belts vs. 4 point-do a search for this wh/has been extensively discussed here in the past). Hard to tell what the story is w/Cat engine but sounds like the standard 140 hp model-vs 200hp for the Birkin. Also, the Cat is 21 years old, the Birkin is 7. Stuff wears out over time, even with light/no use. Here's a partial list of what I had to replace on my 10 y/o Cat soon after I bought it 2 years ago w/13K miles: Engine mounts, suspension bushings, all radiator hoses, a fuel line, clutch master cylinder, rivets holding floor in place, battery, spark plugs/wires, speedometer drive, tires. Here's a partial list of what I did to enhance safety: 6 pt harness, carbon fiber race seat with anchor strap cut out, FIA rollover bar, engine cutoff switch, honeycomb cladding to gas tank, arm restraint straps, HANS unit. And I wont even go into all the optional stuff I just did, like premium tune ups, Brooklands screen, car cover, etc,etc. I agree that driving them all makes sense, then decide. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Se7en4me Posted August 5, 2009 Author Share Posted August 5, 2009 Thanks for the advice. I agree about driving them to see what "fits" me. Appreciate the advice on the safety gear and consumables/wear items. Never thought about the arm restraints. I can also see "upgradeitis" is possible here as well as the miatas. Great rides, just need some tweaking and personalization. I'll try and stop by there this Sat. and report back with my impressions. Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegoat Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 I drove 2 out of the 3 a while back. I did not drive the one priced at $20k. Of the other two, I would choose the green SVT. But at the time, Dick had another green one on consignment that I thought was sorted out the best. IMO, the green SVT needs a corner balance before you can really get a feel for it. I liked the yellow one, but it was bogging down quite a bit the day I drove it, which gave me concern. Dick said that he hadn't seen that before and would have it sorted out if I decided to go with it. At the end of the day though, I took home a new kit order sheet and later placed an order. The kit is supposed to arrive this month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Se7en4me Posted August 9, 2009 Author Share Posted August 9, 2009 Back again. Visited Dick and checked out the 3 cars (his red one is a bit too much for me, well not the car, just the $$$). The 20k one was not considerd, because of a few things. It really did not fit my needs as an ax and track toy (plus I'm not a big fan of clamshells, sorry). The Cat. I sat in it and did not "Feel" it, the green SVT caught my eye the most, had the gear needed (trans and rear end, engine, nice carbon trim bits). Sat in it and it "fit" me well. Time for a test drive... Dick (who is super nice!) pushed it out and we buckeled in. It had been driven before my arrival (engine was warm to touch, Dick said he ran to the post office). Car started right up. Dick mentioned that during his run he noticed it bogging on the low end and that the tach was "lazy".... As I was getting ready to pull out onto the street I immediatly noticed the brakes went way down toward the floor and required a lot of pressure to stop. Dick reminded me that they were not power brakes (like the steering). OK, makes sense. Both of my miatas have power brakes and steering, with track pads. High firm pedals. The pedals in the 7 were very close together, which I expected, but wow.. I'm 5'6 and wear size 91/2 and with the low brake pedal I thought to myself "how am I going to heel toe?". We pulled out and the stumble showed. It would clear, then pull strong..Drove a bit, caught some lights, and Dick directed me to a lot where I could wring it out a bit. We got to the lot and first thing I notice was the size (small) and curbs, and more curbs, and medians with..curbs..The lot was empty save for one maroon Altima parked out of the way. There was room for a small oval with a median in the middle, so I set out slowly winding it up in first and taking the turns. Major on power push was evident. Actually, push is saying it nicely, plow was more like it. The car plowed and would not rotate at all. Ok, compensate, less speed, same results, both directions. After a few minutes of this, on one lefthand turn, I tried to break the end loose a bit to see if it would help rotate. I goosed it and it started plowing harder and then it happened. There was the Altima sitting happily and I was heading for it. I went for the brakes and both the gas and brake pedal went together and my foot was sort of jammed kittywompus. Wheel cranked full left,the car lurched and plowed directly toward the serene Nissan. Imagine a 20 mph rolling powerbrake manuever. Somehow, I managed to stop the car a few feet from the Altima. Smoke and burning rubber waifted around us as we sat there. Scary. Dick was unfazed LOL. I backed it up and drove to the other end of the lot to let the car settle down and check the stumble (and my shorts). As we sat there idling, we saw the Altima start up and move (we did not notice it was occupied due to the tinted windows). We had a chuckle as it drove to another adjacent lot and re-parked. Next up was a quick romp on the interstate to check it's manners there. It was fine on the open road. Not sure how much I can post in one post, so I'll start another just in case>>see part 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Se7en4me Posted August 9, 2009 Author Share Posted August 9, 2009 (edited) We managed to get back to Dick's place uneventfully. He was nice enogh to spend a little over 4 hours with me. Answering all of my questions about pricing, tax, title concerns, insurance concerns, racing, and on and on. Zero pressure and truly honest and without worry. We discussed the plowing, and he said in all his years he had never seen a 7 perform so poorly, and that while he had driven it, it was just on the street and had not pushed it hard. No pun intended.. He said all was easialy fixed, and I believe him. It had new Toyos on the rear and pretty worn ones, of a different tread pattern on the front, which no doubt contributed to the plow. But I'm still undecided. Going in, my expectations were high. I expected a nimble, light, tossable car and I drove a plowing, stumbling, less than expected experience. Yes, it's a used car, but still. I know it's on consignment (not Dick's car), there was lots of documentation with it, and some fairly large bills from the previous (current) owner. It had plugs, wires, coil, o2, intake leak, clutch replacement, trans seal and full paint work done at the Lotus Dealership 1 or 2 years ago (can't remember which). There was more, but memory is fading fast. The thing is, why does it still need work? Dick said it was all an easy fix, and that he would work with the owner on it and the asking price. There is very little room on the price. Obviously, it's a great car with huge potential. The test drive was a major dissapointment. Now I'm torn...I have two miatas. Both were turned over to a professional for a complete freshen up, fluids, plugs,wires, brakes, t-belt, etc. And after 2-3 years of autocross and hpde, are still perfect. This 7 has had similar work and is in this state? It has me wondering... It's been 6 hours since I drove it. I'm thinking of calling Dick and seeing if the owner will give him the go ahead and correct some of the issues and then trying it again. I can take some of my tires and rims (I have 13-14 and 15" sets in varying offsets) , we can find a safe place and try it out again. I really don't want it in it's current state (unless you guys can convince me otherwise) :-) Or any other suggestions would be welcome. Sorry for the long winded spiel. Thanks for listening. Edited August 9, 2009 by Se7en4me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Se7en4me Posted August 9, 2009 Author Share Posted August 9, 2009 I drove 2 out of the 3 a while back. I did not drive the one priced at $20k. Of the other two, I would choose the green SVT. But at the time, Dick had another green one on consignment that I thought was sorted out the best. IMO, the green SVT needs a corner balance before you can really get a feel for it. I liked the yellow one, but it was bogging down quite a bit the day I drove it, which gave me concern. Dick said that he hadn't seen that before and would have it sorted out if I decided to go with it. At the end of the day though, I took home a new kit order sheet and later placed an order. The kit is supposed to arrive this month. Interesting. I asked Dick how long the SVT had been with him and he said 6-8 months. I then asked why did he think it had not sold? He replied that a few folks that came to specifically look at it, ending up going for a new one. I guess that would be you. Dang it! I tried to stay as far away from that red 43k one, but now that's on my mind. Then there's those new ones under construction with the IRS...Ok, must stop and stay with my orginal 25k budget (or sell both miatas,,,hmmm,, one has to go anyway to make room) Someone please STOP ME! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pksurveyor Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 Both of my Caterham oversteer at the limit. They should not plow at all. Either there is something wrong with the suspension or the tire pressure is not right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegoat Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 When we took that green one out, we went to probably the same parking lot, but Dick was driving, and we had the same plow. Also, I am about the same size as you it seems and I had a terrible time with those peddles too, but that can be remedied by adjustment. I went with a new one because I could build one for about $29k by leaving off stuff I don't need (like weather gear), and it will be exactly what I want. A lot of the other cars I have considered were around $25k, but I would want to spend a few thousand to get the car to where I would like it...so, it made sense and will be more fun to just build one. Plus, I will get the new wide track and Duratec power. The only problem is that I have been waiting for 3 months now for the kit to arrive. I was told a few days ago by Dick that it should ship from the factory at the end of the month. He mentioned drop shipping it by air to Denver to get it here faster, but at more cost. At this point, it is getting so late into the season that this will likely be a winter project, so I am not sure about whether it is worth paying to get it here sooner. I just hope it shows up eventually. I epoxied the garage floor today in anticipation even. There have been a lot of sevens come on the market recently. If you don't want to build a new Birkin and want to stick to your price, then I would just continue to watch the cars that come up. You will find one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoPho Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 What is this thing you call understeer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiwiBirkin Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 I can say the same about my Birkin it has oversteer at its limits but has only plowed once when I had the pressures wrong in the front tires it was a easy fix increase the fronts for 16psi to 18psi and it went away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mondo Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 There are other 7 cars (and manufacturers) in Texas;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Croc Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 I also drove the green SVT last November at Dick's and found its handling ok (probably in the same parking lot as you - down the hill and take a left). However, I did not have Dick with me at the time. The extra passenger can make a huge difference. My new car liked to plow understeer initially until I had it corner-weighted and then it made a huge difference - turning in beautifully. Imagine my disappointment when I find it goes back to plow understeer with a passenger along for the ride. The extra weight of a passenger upset my nicely calibrated car. I discovered that tweaking tire pressures to inflate the rear more overcomes that little problem. Lesson - dont be hung up on the car not being perfect. That is what is so great about these cars - you can have fun fiddling with them to get them where you like them. I also agree with TheGoat - its a buyers market right now - quite a few cars for sale at a good price. Be patient and the right one will emerge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestTexasS2K Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 I agree with several others just 2 lbs to much air pressure in the front tires will cause understeer. It should be very easy to fix. It may need a little alignment change help with turn in. I suspect tires are the cause. To much air or old dried out rubber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitcat Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 (edited) I induced power over-steer in my 93 hp Cat on my way in to work today. At 20 mph, in 2nd gear, with race rubber on a deserted and very twisty park road. Turn, goose it, rear slides around, counter-steer, repeat. Very controllable, very toss-able, exactly what you expect from a Seven. I have never experienced plow, even with a 240 lb passenger. Alignment mite be off, suspension mite be bent, air pressure, as noted, can be way off. Or maybe someone helpfully added a front anti-sway bar, wh/cld easily cause plow. Or disconnected the rear bar? Miata's and Sevens are on the opposite end of the spectrum as far as reliability. I have had both but prefer the Seven. Edited August 9, 2009 by Kitcat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slomove Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 Miata's and Sevens are on the opposite end of the spectrum as far as reliability. That is nonsense. My Seven is completely reliable. I can rely 100% on having the tool bag out on any given trip.:smilielol5: Just joking....on that 2500 mile Rocky Mountains trip I just topped off the oil and water. Gert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
athens7 Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 My car has been as reliable as a brick-the time spent in the shop has been almost completely due to the driver's insatiable case of upgradeitis! Also, the only time my car understeers is hard throttle uphill; all other times, it is predisposed to oversteer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Se7en4me Posted August 12, 2009 Author Share Posted August 12, 2009 Appreciate the feedback. It's been a few days now and I'm over it (the dissapointment with the test) somewhat. I feel the car is capable and has potential with proper setup and getting used to driving it. That said, I'm still shopping, but the pickings seem scarce. Either I stink at ebay and CL searches or there in fact is not to much right now.. Would it be possible to ask for ya'll to keep an eye out? Not against any forum rules I hope. Thanks for the help! :seeya: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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