New Caterham

[Hudson]

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/Secret-new-cars/Search-Results/Spyshots/Caterhams-new-sports-car-2015-the-full-scoop/

 

 

design rights for the Elise ?

 

Ed

[Automoda]

Caterham is doing what I have been saying someone should do. BUT

 

40K is not affordable. Perhaps it is just because it is low volume... I would like to see someone make a sports car that is 15K, has standard easy to source parts, is easy to work on, is small tube-framed, and is simple. Something you could work on, something you could make modifications to all day long. Something grandma just cant get into. Something that is what it is and is not trying to be something for everyone. Simple guages, a 1din radio slot, stick or automatic options...

 

But alas you could never make that car in the USA. Its like there's an unwritten rule that to make one of those naughty sports cars, you have to make it so expensive that the driver would never drive frisky. Then there's the problem that the government dictates car design here. A-pillars are now so thick that they cause wrecks, as you lose the semi coming at you behind the giant pillar. 2K worth of air bags, tons of crash testing, bumper rules (which is funny because every SUV out there would crawl right over any of my car's bumpers anyhow).

 

Imagine a smaller, fiberglass-on-tube-frame 68 Camaro looking car that had a smaller but peppy engine, 14" steel wheels, lots of road noise, manual windows, race harnesses standard, old school headlights (not the expensive swept-plastic ones they all use now) for 15K. I'd buy that car. Then I'd tune it up. Nothing gets me excited out there right now. Nothing.

[jimrankin]

It's not that you couldn't make a car like that here, it's that you couldn't SELL it here. The government won't let you drive a car without all the "safety features" but they will let you drive a car that won't turn or stop and you can't see out of. It's kind of schizophrenic in the government's "car world". You have to put daylight headliights (actually a good idea) on the car but you can have them disabled. You have to have bumpers (as previously noted) but anyone can jack up a pick up till their bumper is over your boot lid and the headlights are at your eye level. The Camery has a great crash rating, which is good because that is just the driver who is going to put a set of "four for $99 installed" tires on to save money and slide right into the back of your 7. Too bad for you though, your car wasn't safe, it stops too quickly. LOL.

California doesn't have a yearly vehicle inspection and you see junkers driving on the road that are, literally, unsafe even when parked.

There was a big Hub-bub a few years ago because (a few blocks from my home) one of our state legislators surgeon husband was killed when he was broadsided in an intersection by a car being driven "without working brakes". I actually thought something might come from it but nothing ever did. Your car and you insurance still get checked AFTER the accident.

Oh well, just venting, I shouldn't try to use the terms "common sense" and "government" in the same paragraph.

[Automoda]

But I dont care about safety as much as some people care. I'm fine with a 60s car if I put a nice harness in it and make sure the steering column can collapse. Yet I'm not really given the option to have a car that weighs 1000 lbs less and is perhaps slighly less crash-worthy. That is because for some people a car is more than point A to point B transportation.

 

Today I saw a Smart Car. Admit it, the first thing you thought when you first saw one is "How did the government allow that thing on the road?". Of course any motorcycle is more dangerous many times over than a Smart Car or a 7 or an old Mini.

 

In the end you wont see style return, or real innovation, until the government vanishes from the scene and people are allowed to try new ideas. And that day may be coming soon. Here's food for thought: The government has pushed people into a car-size arms race to have the biggest (and supposedly safest) cars they can make. Now what happens when gas is 10$/gallon or else you get 20 gallons per week on a ration card? The government will have pushed the population into a loosing hand. Again. Like always.

 

Is anyone out there excited about a car being made today? Something a teenager would be able to buy 5 years used if he worked hard? Something that looks wildly unique or has timeless style? For me its a big yawn. Bring back the 60s cars.

[jimrankin]

"Cars" keep getting better and better as far as the mechanicals, gas use to power ratio and rusting away goes but..... they suck the big one on the excitment meter and unless your dad owns the dealership where you bought it you probably can't work on it or afford to get it fixed once it's ten years old.

Short of a couple of the "hot" cars like big Porsche, M series DMW's and some other notable efforts there isn't a lot to drool over. Even the MINI keeps getting bigger and the Fiat 500 will be a fat pig in no time. LOL.

I could keep my '55 and my '57 Chevy running for peanuts (other than my penchant for shopping on the back pages of Hot Rod magazine ***** pre-internet equivalent of Summit Racing} for anything to make them go faster. LOL). Now it's pretty much out of reach of a "kid" to do anything since even if he doesn't need a computer to tell him whats wrong he need so many special tools it takes it out of his hands.

Only someone my age can remember when your entire "special tools" section of the box had a torque wrench, ring compressor and a snap ring plier set. And that set made you "the man" amoung your friends at 17 years old. Oh, and a sawn off input shaft from a blown 3-speed to center up your new clutch, FREE special tool.

[DeanG]

I hear similar thing on the Elise centered sites.

 

The days of simple cars are over. The days of inexpensive limited production cars never existed. The days of Americans knowing how to drive never existed.

 

The truly hot stuff is all computer controlled, 4wd, turbo... The cheapest limited production car was the Elise and that is now only a memory. People pay $50K for a pickup truck and $30K for a Harley. As for actively participating in driving - forget it. Eat, drink, text and be merry. The automatic lane assist in your 2 ton behemoth with 12 air bags will keep you safe.

 

Lets all be thankful that we can drive vintage cars and that Se7ens exist. Although sometimes I wonder about the simplicity of some of the monsters I see on this site.

 

Rant over.

[turboeric]

I think that we need to remember that a lot of the young folks regard the fact that everything is computer controlled to be a bonus - it's what they understand. I've had the experience of rejetting a set of Webers on a friends's 1969 BMW 2002 race car in the paddock, and having a group of 20 something racers wondering what the heck we were doing.

 

They expect something where you can go to a computer interface and explicitly set parameters, rather than the pretty inexact "fiddle and try" approach to mechanical systems. I completely agree that most modern cars are boring, isolating, fat and dull. But the problem is our demand that we be endlessly protected from our own stupidity and sloth, without having to participate actively. Until that attitude dies, we'll be given rolling bank vaults. Or, we'll build Sevens.....

[Klasik-69]

Well computers do make these beasts run better, smoother and stronger. But they are a PIA. Factory Five sells car kits for around 15K that allow a lot of old school engineering. Yes, you still have to add the power, tranny, rear end, suspension. But if you wanted to be economical, you could get by with about $6,500 if you shopped used or junk car parts. Hard to get a fun car for $15K complete. My company buys Kawasaki Mules and they're running almost $13K; no radio, windows, A/C or anything else remotely close to creature comforts. Kubota's models are $14.5K.

 

AS far as fun kits, the Stalker may still be the best deal around and still you'll be around $28K, or the price of mid level Honda Accord. I'm looking at a Ford GT40 kit and that has my wallet going into freeze mode. Yes, our lives are way too complicated.

 

As far as safety is concerned, Florida had a vehicle safety inspections until the Governor's mother had to wait in line for over an hour so he killed that. In NC where I have a vacation home, inspections are required but they are so superficial, I'm not sure what it would take to fail. My old Jeep with the Engine Check light on, several vacuum hoses split and the exhaust spewing out more smoke than the mosquito truck passed the inspection. I hear NJ and NY have tough inspections that include exhaust noise levels but not sure it keeps them with good brakes or good tires. It may require that. Here in Florida, we have so many transients and fruit pickers running around in uninsured death mobiles its downright scarry. Add a few thousand people text messaging, and suddenly being on a race track seems much safer. At least on the track, everyone seems to be going in the same direction !

[Jim F.]

Hi, Automoda;

At 70 years of age, not a whole lot of automobile design attracts or interests me anymore. I'm too "old school" and an analog person living in a digital world (my ITB Zetec powered Cat. Roadsport aside). The one car that caught my eye recently and prompted a visit to my local Chevrolet dealer is the 45th Anniversary Camaro......only commenting on visual appeal and nothing else. Beautiful interior, paint, graphics, style, and design. With a sticker price of $49K, if I were interested in acquiring one, though, I would certainly wait around 2 years minimum to catch a deal after all the bugs have been worked out and it's more acceptably priced. No wonder GM in rolling in the black!

[Croc]

I hear NJ and NY have tough inspections that include exhaust noise levels but not sure it keeps them with good brakes or good tires. It may require that.

 

Unfortunately, NJ phased out the safety inspection for an OBDII emissions check or a tailpipe check if you were pre-1996 OBDII. The last time I tried to get my old yellow Seven emissions inspected there was a 1992 Mercury POS with rust holes in the rear fenders that would swallow my entire arm, sagging suspension, cracked windscreens and only one wiper. Yet he passed. By contrast my little yellow seven which I had carefully maintained was failed because the computer did not like my high idle revs on the zetec (it eventually passed at specialty inspection.

 

So great - the Government set the safety standards yet does not stop a car being badly maintained to the point where it can do worse harm than a simple car of 20 years ago.

 

 

Here in Florida, we have so many transients and fruit pickers running around in uninsured death mobiles its downright scarry. Add a few thousand people text messaging, and suddenly being on a race track seems much safer. At least on the track, everyone seems to be going in the same direction !

 

I totally agree with you. I feel safer in my seven at 130mph on a track than in my 2010 Audi doing 35mph during my commute to the office. The government has let drivers be dumbed down (or they dumbed themselves down) and have increased passive/active safety to compensate for this. Personally I would dial back a little safety in a vehicle in exchange for getting the driving population to improve their driving skills - no cell phone, no texting, no eating, no drinking, no ear drum bleeding sound systems, displyaing driving courtesy and being considerate. Then we would not need the auto cocoons that we have evolved to.

 

Kudos to Caterham for trying to develop a non-seven-type car that harks back to the simple light formula.

[Mondo]

Technology sure has helped motors though... have you seen the new Ford Mustang GT500 with 650HP?

[turboeric]

Technology sure has helped motors though... have you seen the new Ford Mustang GT500 with 650HP?

You raise an excellent point. I'd never want to go back to the kind of specific outputs that were possible with carbs and dizzies (at least in emissions legal trim). In many ways, we're in a golden age of horsepower, while the engines are longer lasting and less tempermental than they've ever been.

 

All the chassis nannies, on the other hand, I could do without. That said, I am including ABS on the Westfield.

[escondidoron]

... I would like to see someone make a sports car that is 15K, has standard easy to source parts, is easy to work on, is small tube-framed, and is simple. Something you could work on, something you could make modifications to all day long. Something grandma just cant get into. Something that is what it is and is not trying to be something for everyone. Simple guages, a 1din radio slot, stick or automatic options...

 

 

Well there is a car that is readily available, in production now and that seems to meet all of the above stated criteria, save one, the tube-frame part.

 

The car is a 2006 or earlier Miata (Now ducking for cover)

[jimrankin]

That car really showed where American corporate auto thinking was when it was first produced. Legend has it, urban or whatever type, that it was first pitched to GM who stupidly passed because they already had the vette and thought it might cut into sales of a high profit line. Then to Ford, they were just DUMB as they did not have anything like it in their line as Mustangs were by then clearly not smal sports road cars. Lucky for Miatas that Ford had a big part of Mazda by then so tossed it to Japan.

If either GM or Ford had produced it in house at that time it would have probably been a POS and even if they didn't screw it up the first time in 3-4 years the next tooling would have had it bigger, softer and more expensive.

On the "up" side, if GM or Ford had made it here it would have been packing a large V8 by version 3. LOL.

[ayseven]

People have short memories. When my dad bought his TR3 brand new in 1956 in Vancouver, he paid over $3000 for it. My brother still has it, but it hasn't been on the road since 1975, the year I turned 16. Nice, eh??

 

He made from what I understand, about $1000 per YEAR. Cars are dirt cheap nowadays no matter how you calculate it. Yes most are boring, but that's because the masses demand mini vans and trucks, instead of interesting diesels and small cars like they have in Europe.

[Alaskossie]

jimrankin:

 

You wrote,

 

On the "up" side, if GM or Ford had made it [Miata] here it would have been packing a large V8 by version 3. LOL.

__________________

 

I hadn't heard the story of Miata being pitched first to some of the Big Three, but Flyin' Miata in Colorado provides the answer to the speculation you raised: a modern LS-series GM aluminum V-8 and 6-speed transmission in a Miata (see: http://flyinmiata.com/V8/).

 

My 2004 Mazdaspeed Miata is presently in their garage, and my conversion is on order.

 

Alaskossie

[jimrankin]

All things are relative...If you look at what we get in a car these days for the money they are indead "cheap". Technology, robotics and standardizing parts across several models has made it possible to provide very complex yet reliable cars for "reasonable" prices. These manufacturing traits, the need to please a mass buying group to keep the production unit numbers up and wind tunnel testing for milage has also made them mostly bland cookie cutter copies of each other.

The man who said "you can't have it all" wasn't too far off the mark. We either get "cheap and reliable", but bland, or we can get "Unique, hell fire hot and I really want one", but it sure ain't going to be cheap!

At least "hot" cars have become more reliable. Anyone who ever owned a 435HP 427 will tell you that about once a month it would be harder to live with than the wife. "Honey, can you adjust my solid lifters and does this #8 plug make my exhaust look black". LOL. Now you can beat the s--- out of your 450+ HP Chevy, Ford or Dodge and drive it by the dealer about once a year for an oil change.

As for $3,000.00 for a '56 TR3, must have been a lot of import duty in that price because MG and Triumph were the "cheaper" import sports cars, Austin Healy was one step up and Jag on top. Probably do some research and find what they actually listed for.

Have a great weekend everyone, and if it's sunny you better give the 7 some road love.

[rnr]

New Triump TR7 in 1975: $5100 with ac and cassette as $425 and $200 options

New 1975 Mustang Mach 1: $4188

Colorado per capita income 1975: $6219

 

New 2010 Mustang GT Convertible: $32,995

New 2010 Shelby Mustang GT500 convertible (540 hp): $48,175

Colorado per captia income 2010: $42,802

 

With 36k warranty, reliability and relatively modern handling I think its safe to say that the modern Mustang is a much better deal than the Triumph.

[jimrankin]

found an original list price sheet.Car was about $2,500.00 and if you did a hard top add $750.00. That was a lot of money for the car as full sized american cars were selling for less, even dressed up.

[jimrankin]

Tell your brother that there is a 1956 dealer price sheet on Ebay for $5.00 Standard-Triumph Motorcar Co. Might be fun to have it hanging in the garage.