Croc Posted June 29, 2012 Author Share Posted June 29, 2012 Are you actually saying I was "smooth" on the track???? Is this some kind of head game to get me to slow up:)? I will have to see the video before I believe that:). I watched your video last night, twice for some sessions. And it does not lie - you show up as nicely smooth on the video - no head games or jokes from me on this one. Your driving style is surprisingly close to mine - let the engine work, not many changes, use the width of the track, little shuffling of hands, etc. Only real difference is I am a stickler for technical track lines whereas you go offline from time to time. I will let you time your laps on screen. Fastest time for me on Lightning was 1.18.7 and a 1.35 neat on Thunderbolt. The Thunderbolt time was set with Jack (Jvbtte) as passenger on the Sunday. My car is far more stable in high speed turns with a passenger. Here is to doing it again next year! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellowss7 Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Me: Most improved driver award. Last event I went off track at NJMP 4 times, this time 0. No black flags either (unlike certain yellow Caterham owners who shall remain anonymous:)). Croc: Are you actually saying I was "smooth" on the track???? Is this some kind of head game to get me to slow up:)? I will have to see the video before I believe that:). Cant wait til next year! Mike, I hate to admit it, but more than one driver came up to me and asked who was driving the red 7 as they were really fast. As for my "black flag", if Croc doesn't edit it out, you can clearly see the point by and my getting past BEFORE Turn one. :jester: It was no where like your late passes last year. Looking at my video, I can see that I clearly turn in way too early and don't use the whole track for my entrances and exits. Looking forward to some video critic ing from the experts. BTW, i sent Croc 27 gig of video, from my 4 onboard cameras over the 4 days. Unfortunately, my external mic placement was crap. Great to see all of you guys, Michael D. has a few new ideas for additions to next year. Hopefully, we can suck in a few more Seven drivers. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitcat Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 (edited) As I mentioned at our Texas Roadhouse dinner: Every se7en I followed (I never followed Croc) was way over-slowing on corner entry. People wld run brilliant lines then give it all back, and then some, entering turns. I suspect that will be clear in my video. The worst were the non-se7ens (Porsches/Vettes)-I tried to stay off their butts as I was shocked a coupla times by their heavy braking where I was full on the throtle (and almost rammed into them). Anyhow, I think if se7ens folks just worked on that, they wld be amazed at how much faster they got. Tom-I will say this just once:the black flag you got was totally bogus-I did worse this weekend and no flag. But, I already feel amnesia coming on so its back to the official usa7s policy of merciless ribbing. Edited June 29, 2012 by Kitcat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelD Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Croc, If that is the trailer, I can't wait for the feature film. Nice job all. Next year I vote that we have a projector to show the all of our videos on the wall in the garage while we eat ribs and drink beer. We can call in the order and I will go pick it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Croc Posted July 4, 2012 Author Share Posted July 4, 2012 (edited) Every se7en I followed (I never followed Croc) was way over-slowing on corner entry. People wld run brilliant lines then give it all back, and then some, entering turns. I suspect that will be clear in my video. Hmmmm.....yes and no. Your lines are like mine - good in places and terrible in others - neither of us have a really good lap where all the corners come together. Also I call my driving 7/10th or 8/10ths as I am 3-4 seconds off what a good time in my car would be - I have a healthy respect for the track as I need to drive my car home at the end of it. Thinking about your comments above plus the idea you planted in our offline PMs re your videoa, I quickly put together a comparison of driving styles at each of Lightning and Thunderbolt Circuits. Four cars - Mike, Tom, Steve and myself. The results are very interesting. Mike and I are paired up top. My Thunderbolt lap has a 200 weight penalty called Jvbtte which evens things up with Mike better. Steve and Tom are paired down bottom. The crossflow was competitive with a Rover K series and they both have clams which give a major aerodynamic disadvantage. Tom also suffers extra wind resistance from 10 inch slick tires. Ideally I would have substituted MichaelD (if I had his video) as the better driver in place of Tom in order to match Steve's excellent driving skills (Tom will pay dearly for that saddle in Texas Roadhouse! ) I tried to pick laps that are representative - not the fastest but close in time and no traffic that holds things up so we can compare lines corner to corner. The rear view cam in my car on lightning is not quite synced with the front cam - fixing that for the event video. Each car has been started at the start finish line and the video only runs 1-2 laps time. I would review Mike/me first and then replay to see Tom/Steve as each pair is fairly consistent. For reference my GPS lap time on Lightning in the video is a 1.20.1 and on Thunderbolt is a 1.37.4 so you can estimate from that what the other cars are running. These videos are not in HD but will work full screen to see better. Sorry no sound as I could not combine 4 soundtracks properly. Lightning Thunderbolt The videos confirm what I already know - I need more time on Lightning as this was my second time on it plus I am awful at Turn 1 on both circuits. There are a number of corners where I give up speed just as Kitcat notes by overly slowing plus do not use the full width of the track. This should keep people occupied until I can finish off the proper video. Let the debate begin! :lurk: Edited December 12, 2012 by Croc fixed youtube links Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitcat Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 Interesting and, as always, humbling. Not sure what I was doing 1st lap on Lightning (warm up?), kinda drove down the middle of the track. I did get on it on the 2nd go round a little more. But, I missed lots of chances to use more track, as we all did. That's the most obvious area of improvement that I see on all 4 drivers-we are not using all the track. Haven't looked @ T-Bolt, that's next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Croc Posted July 4, 2012 Author Share Posted July 4, 2012 Not sure what I was doing 1st lap on Lightning (warm up?), kinda drove down the middle of the track. No I avoided warm up laps and cool down laps and I tried to stay with middle of sessions where you would be warmed up and going for it. I was trying to get faster, clear of traffic laps to be a better point of comparison on where each of us was best on each circuit. I think what it shows quite effectively is that you take the best corners out of each of us and there is a good to 1-2 seconds lap time saving for both of us. I need more time myself to think through what I am seeing. It is a very interesting comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitcat Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 (edited) Two areas where I thing we all could add some speed were 3-4-5, as mentioned, and I think vid somewhat shows. My strategy was to early apex 3 and get off of the curbing mid turn at 3 quickly and over and up and onto middle-end of mid 4 climbing curbing aggressively there, then go way out onto turn 5 on curbing. In other words try to make that series of turns as straight as possible. You have to sacrifice some speed at entrance to 3 to make it possible to get into it shallowly and out quickly but you can really make up that time w/that line thru the rest of the sequence. The other big area is the bowl: most drivers hit the cone apex at bottom just fine but then only let their speed carry them 1/2 way back up bowl to outside left of the track. If you drop the hammer and stay on gas from apex cone at bottom onward and dont back off, your speed will force you to use all the track in the last 1/2 of the bowl and will force you to continue to steer right (just as advised by Enrique) til you actually enter the straight- just use the banking and keep steering right and also use the upper left side track curbing to shoot you over to the inside apex on right before entering the straight. Most folks seem to hit the low apex cone, back off a bit, stay somewhat right and hit rt apex onto straight. It is very safe but costs speed as you have to lift to make it happen. Not that I was successfully able to do any of that on a consistent basis:). Edited July 4, 2012 by Kitcat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bball7754 Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 (edited) Interesting. I felt much more comfortable on Lightning. Never really felt all that quick on Thunderbolt - not that I was setting records on Lightning. I was purposely conservative braking at the end of the main straights, and really in braking overall. Partially to subscribe to the "slow in, fast out" philosophy, partially because I'm not that familiar with the tracks, and partially because I'm not that brave. Just glad I was able to uphold the honor of the Crossflow. And I think my full windscreen compared to Tom's Brooklands compensates for his slicks. Steve Edited July 4, 2012 by bball7754 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Croc Posted July 4, 2012 Author Share Posted July 4, 2012 (edited) I hear you Steve - I am always careful braking at the end of the straights - I have too much past race history butt puckering up the seat fabric when I discover there is nothing under the brake pedal. This video did confirm crossflows remain nicely competitive, especially on a momentum track like Lightning. Swap over the speed brake (windscreen) for a set of Brooklands and I think you will be even more happily surprised. Mike - for the bowl you should be foot to the floor halfway through, way way before the apex. At least that is what I am trying to do. The biggest single giveaway on all tracks is turn 1. This is followed by the 2-3-4-5 sequence on Lightning which you need to string together to make it all work as a run onto the back straight. MichaelD is sending me some video - I will see if I can merge it into this comparison. Video update - I have 19 x 22 min sessions startiing to render in HD. Takes approx 3-4 hours per session. I have previewed each raw video (29 sessions) and there is so much good stuff in there - Mike's two wheels off and dust cloud, Stewart's dust cloud, my oops moment, Steve's bonnet reflections, the Elise having death wobbles and then a later spin in front of me, Ron's spin from 2 angles, MichaelD's wing, etc. Only then can I start merging it all toegther into 1 big edited video. I had to buy a terrabyte drive to cope with the files! I am beginning to feel like Top Gear - ambitious but rubbish. Edited July 4, 2012 by Croc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitcat Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 In the bowl I can't seem to get down to the low apex cone unless I lift and feather the throttle in the 1st part. Once I head down to the low cone, I floor it and my goal, like yours, is to keep the pedal down. If you watch your speedometer needle on your 1st Lightning lap, you rapidly build speed heading down to the cone, past it and out, but then the needle hesitates, or drops for a second toward end of the bowl. I suspect I do the same thing, just to be sure car is straight. Like you/Steve, I dont want to bend my car (esp at 110 mph entering the straight)! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Croc Posted July 4, 2012 Author Share Posted July 4, 2012 If you watch your speedometer needle on your 1st Lightning lap, you rapidly build speed heading down to the cone, past it and out, but then the needle hesitates, or drops for a second toward end of the bowl. Agree that is happening but it happens as I change gear not because I am checking my speed. Look at my right hand go for 5th gear at that point plus look at my rev counter on the dash. Having sound would have made it easier to pick that up that detail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Croc Posted July 5, 2012 Author Share Posted July 5, 2012 Mike - On Thunderbolt, look at your lines in the corners up to and including the octopus/Jersey Devil. I claw back a huge amount of time in 3 corners compared with your lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Croc Posted July 10, 2012 Author Share Posted July 10, 2012 (edited) Ok....I have rendered all the various video pieces with data/rear view cams etc. I also have Michael's video. Total video is 145gb of data from all cars! It is currently being backed up offsite to an FTP site so I can edit while travelling starting Sunday. To keep you all occupied in the meantime, I was tempted to post a video of Tom circulating Thunderbolt with data. However, watching it I realized you would be bored to death by the 5 min mark when he gets overtaken by a Porsche 924. So to keep you all "excited," here is one of me circulating in cruise mode on my last session of Lightning on June 25. You can watch in HD and there is decent engine sound and lots of diff lift off rattles as I deal with slower cars. This session is 5-6 seconds off my best pace as I am circulating 1.23 or slower. This should allow Kitcat to happily savage my driving abilities :jester: Edited December 12, 2012 by Croc fixed broken boob tube links Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitcat Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 (edited) Didn't watch all but it's clear that you are much, much faster the others in the bowl before the straight, unless they are holding you up. You typically are mid 70's mph at slowest, others mid 50's and mid 60's. And you are faster when chasing someone rather than just circulating. Helps explain why I never caught you. I liked how aggressive you were climbing curbs also, using all the road. Not much to criticize really (tho I cld find something if pushed, I am sure:)). Edited July 10, 2012 by Kitcat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al N. Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Thanks for posting the pix (and the blow by blow stories to go with it)...FYI, y'all know that even when my new/old Seven is done, there's no way it's ever being tracked (or auto-xed). I prefer to polish fenders, organize events, and run out of fuel! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Croc Posted July 12, 2012 Author Share Posted July 12, 2012 Hi Al! Its ok - you can still come down to NJMP with Bessie and join us for the fun and social side of things even if you do not drive her wild on track. Anyway if you like polishing then my car is quite ready to volunteer for your treatment! :rofl: BTW - I suspect I will regret asking this....but.....how is Bessie coming along? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BessieTheSeven Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Thanks for posting the pix (and the blow by blow stories to go with it)...FYI, y'all know that even when my new/old Seven is done, there's no way it's ever being tracked (or auto-xed). I prefer to polish fenders, organize events, and run out of fuel! Listen Sweetheart Al - I want to be driven wild. I want to reach redline. I want to squeal my tires around corners. I want to feel hot oil coursing through my head. Like all good sevens I want to blow off a Porsche, a Mustang, and a BMW. If you want to just saunter up to me and fondle my fenders then you got another case of carbon black soot from my tailpipe about to coat your puce-colored Gucci loafers! Honestly, Men! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellowss7 Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Sounds like you need to take a firm hand to her and get her oil nice and hot Al. :smilielol5: Maybe we can get you to take her out for a parade lap at lunch, just to stretch her legs a bit. :drool: Definately come out for the social stuff. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al N. Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 Tom- Got your PM. Great idea. Let me get through summer and the kids back in school and we can chat more. -Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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