Risk Assessment and Having Fun

[Anaximander]

Recently, one of our 7 brothers experienced an accident that caused injury to himself and his car. For a short time, I owned a really wickedly fast Brunton M-Spec LS-engine Stalker. I had wanted a sevenesque car since my junior year in high school when I almost purchased a stock 1962 Lotus 7. One of the things I noticed when driving the Storker was that a Ford Focus had door handles that were significantly taller than where my head was in my Storker. When I was blatting around on country roads and would face oncoming traffic such as a Ford F250, I did notice that the dimensions of my car vs. the truck were enormously different. I would perform an informal risk assessment, make sure that the truck was not crossing the center line and made sure that I had an exit strategy if that occurred.

 

Fast forward a month and I bought my buddy's large Harley Davidson cruiser (Road Glide Ultra) that weighs 2/3 of what a typical seven weighs and one of the only safety feature upgrades is ABS brakes. So, I traded a car that sits inches off the ground, has a gas tank in the rear for a bumper and now sit atop a 900 pound behemoth of a motorcycle that has weak brakes at best. I have a lengthy history of owning high-performance sport bikes with performance characteristics somewhat similar to the Storker (Yamaha R1's, etc.)

 

Both vehicles provide a significant amount of fun factor in different ways. At the ripe old age of 65.8 years, I have been giving some minor thought to a life filled with risk taking but one that has also been a hell of a lot of fun! It has been said that humans are fairly poor judges of risk/hazards in life and especially young males. I sense that the group on this Forum tends to be more affluent and likely a bit older than many of the young squids who go out on a sport bike and hurt themselves. Some of the evidence comes from the cost of insurance for our expensive cars and the fact that insurance companies are very astute at measuring risk and assigning monetary structures toward the risk with an eye towards profitability.

 

I am wondering in the light of our recent community buddy who is recovering from injuries sustained while having a lot of fun in a very neat car if thoughts of risk are creeping into our psyches? I for one do not want to go through life too aware of all of the risks such that it significantly diminishes the fun I have with motorized vehicles. OTOH, it does cause some pause for reflection and might make me just a little bit safer if I can learn something from the pain that our buddy has experienced.

Edited March 14, 2015 by Astro Bob

[Poorichard]

I don't think there is much to learn at 65.8.........all good judgement goes away once we turn the key......have fun, be safe.

[Dave W]

"all good judgement goes away once we turn the key" Isn't that the truth!!! Dave W

[Kitcat]

I agree that as we get older, we take a closer look at ways of extending what can start to seem like "borrowed time". I turn 70 next year so the youth oriented thought of being immortal has long since faded.

 

OTOH, as my time on earth shrinks, my desire to make the most of it increases. My reaction has been to try to have a safer track vehicle (full cage, fuel cell, fire suppression system, etc.), not fewer track days. And as a track-only se7en, I couldn't drive it on the public roads if I wanted (Altho I am tempted:)).

 

Bottom line to me: better to burn out than rust, in the timeless words of the Neil Young song.

[toedrag]

As to the specific question of 'How does Xcarguy's accident impact me personally?' Since it appears to have been caused by a yet-to-be-named mechanical issue, it's a matter of me understanding the root cause of both the mechanical failure and the root cause of the injuries, and addressing them preventively, if possible. It may or may not be applicable to my m-spec build, but there are always lessons to be learned from any incident.

 

My risk tolerance varies, but in general, I now describe myself as a [somewhat risk-averse] adrenaline junkie....I'm a conflicted individual, obviously. One certainty is that you'll never find me on a motorcycle (unless it's something like a Morgan 3-wheeler or T-Rex that's classified as a motorcycle, but has more than 2 wheels).

 

On public roads, I feel like there are really very few true accidents. People like to call them "accidents" even if it was caused by someone making a choice to not pay attention to the world around them. Perhaps an accurate name would be "ignorances". My & my occupants' safety begins with awareness and the healthy paranoia that everyone else is trying to kill me. I don't trust anyone on the road; I don't trust that anyone will obey traffic signals, stop signs, or really any other rules of the road. For example, if I'm first through a green light at an intersection with full visibility, and if I don't see the car running the red light, I feel like I'm partially at fault. The reason being that I should have paid attention and noticed that the car wasn't slowing down for its red light. On the other hand, if it was a blind intersection, there's not much I can do, other than not be first through the intersection. Another example: a 3-lane frontage road, let's say I move from the left lane to the center lane, but I didn't realize that the right lane was ending and merging also into the center lane. Even if I had done everything correctly and even if the other person didn't see my blinker and hit my car, I still feel like I'm at fault for putting myself into that situation by not noticing what was happening in the right lane.

 

I suppose you could call this a more intense form of defensive driving. I credit HPDE schools for hammering home the idea of awareness while driving. Increased awareness helps mitigate the risk of driving, in my opinion. Over the years, I've avoided plenty of "ignorances" this way.

[Anaximander]

As to the specific question of 'How does Xcarguy's accident impact me personally?' Since it appears to have been caused by a yet-to-be-named mechanical issue, it's a matter of me understanding the root cause of both the mechanical failure and the root cause of the injuries, and addressing them preventively, if possible. It may or may not be applicable to my m-spec build, but there are always lessons to be learned from any incident.

 

My risk tolerance varies, but in general, I now describe myself as a [somewhat risk-averse] adrenaline junkie....I'm a conflicted individual, obviously. One certainty is that you'll never find me on a motorcycle (unless it's something like a Morgan 3-wheeler or T-Rex that's classified as a motorcycle, but has more than 2 wheels).

 

On public roads, I feel like there are really very few true accidents. People like to call them "accidents" even if it was caused by someone making a choice to not pay attention to the world around them. Perhaps an accurate name would be "ignorances". My & my occupants' safety begins with awareness and the healthy paranoia that everyone else is trying to kill me. I don't trust anyone on the road; I don't trust that anyone will obey traffic signals, stop signs, or really any other rules of the road. For example, if I'm first through a green light at an intersection with full visibility, and if I don't see the car running the red light, I feel like I'm partially at fault. The reason being that I should have paid attention and noticed that the car wasn't slowing down for its red light. On the other hand, if it was a blind intersection, there's not much I can do, other than not be first through the intersection. Another example: a 3-lane frontage road, let's say I move from the left lane to the center lane, but I didn't realize that the right lane was ending and merging also into the center lane. Even if I had done everything correctly and even if the other person didn't see my blinker and hit my car, I still feel like I'm at fault for putting myself into that situation by not noticing what was happening in the right lane.

 

I suppose you could call this a more intense form of defensive driving. I credit HPDE schools for hammering home the idea of awareness while driving. Increased awareness helps mitigate the risk of driving, in my opinion. Over the years, I've avoided plenty of "ignorances" this way.

 

Toedrag, Very insightful and useful observations! However, I can't get over your forum name as I think about flat tracking Harley riders and their metal "hot shoes".

[NVP66S]

I support what toedrag said and have a few more comments. I commute on a motorcycle about 1/3 of the time, and drive my 7 on public roads. Being an engineer nerd I have to analyze everything and personal safety is high on that list.

 

Motorcycles are dangerous, there's no getting around that. But if you look at the statistics, a lot of the fatalities involve alcohol, or not knowing the capabilities of the vehicle or rider. Lots of bikers going off on a tangent to a curve. I rode motorcycle when I was 16, and now I am riding at 61. (please no numerology jokes). If you asked me about safety at 16, my response was "If you want to hit me with a car, you have to catch me first". The only time I had a serious accident was just after trading a 250 cc bike for a 650 cc bike. I found out the hard way that the added power made it easier to overpower the tires coming out of a corner. I have to admit, it's less fun now, but I have a far greater chance of surviving.

 

I think the greatest hazard accident scenario on public roads is the same for a 7 as for a motorcycle. That is, an oncoming car making a left turn in front of you. The other guy's defense is "Officer, I didn't see him". On the other hand, our sevens are so different that the other driver is more likely to pause and say "WTF is THAT??". Believe it or not, that's a safety feature. I've heard the owner of a funny little electric car say that he's seen other cars have accidents because the drivers were staring at him.

[xcarguy]

I am wondering in the light of our recent community buddy who is recovering from injuries sustained while having a lot of fun in a very neat car if thoughts of risk are creeping into our psyches? I for one do not want to go through life too aware of all of the risks such that it significantly diminishes the fun I have with motorized vehicles. OTOH, it does cause some pause for reflection and might make me just a little bit safer if I can learn something from the pain that our buddy has experienced.

 

Bob,

 

After the accident, one thought regarding risk assessment is how, in the future, I will review a track that I have never run; especially concerning potential track hazards that a video camera simply cannot capture. Prior to the mishap, I would study the line of a new track and learn every turn while taking in all I could about the terrain, track layout, etc.; basically, anything that would aid in providing me with a safe and enjoyable experience form lap one. I would review various videos of different cars with diverse levels of performance to help give me a good feel for what I might expect out of my car and my own skill level once on track. But, getting back to how I would review a new track in the future; given the opportunity, I would walk the track. In fact, I personally think every person who attends an HPDE event who has never driven the track should be given this opportunity. And I firmly believe that if I had been afforded that chance at TWS prior to running, I would be sitting here right now without a back brace. At the very least, if not given (in the future) the opportunity to walk a track prior to running, I now have a broader idea of what questions I’d ask the HPDE host prior to heading to the grid.

 

 

I agree that as we get older, we take a closer look at ways of extending what can start to seem like "borrowed time". . . . . . as my time on earth shrinks, my desire to make the most of it increases. My reaction has been to try to have a safer track vehicle (full cage, fuel cell, fire suppression system, etc.), not fewer track days. . . . . better to burn out than rust, in the timeless words of the Neil Young song.

 

Mike,

 

I totally agree. I want to make the most of my time while here, and I want to do it as safely as possible.

 

 

. . . . . . . . :cheers:

[jimrankin]

Just more rambling on...skip to next post if your in a hurry. ;-).

At 68 I'm probably in the older 10-20% or so of the group and have been a car and motorcycle enthusiast since way before I had a drivers learning permit. I'm also the child that my mother always thought would never see 21 due to my very poor "risk assessment" record. Having collected several broken bones and enough stitching to start a quilt by the time I was out of high school she may have been pretty close to right.

I'm not sure when it happened but it's true, age does bring a bit more caution, even if it doesn't always bring more wisdom. Somewhere along the way we all discover the point where we no longer "bounce" but 'break" when hitting the ground or something else hard. Then it's decision time about our risk assessment schedule of return.

Do we want to give up what makes us the happiest? Or do we want to throw caution to the wind? Or can we find a happy medium?

I still own a 1956 rigid frame HD "chopper" with a built shovel head and upgrades like disc brakes but I haven't ridden it in oh so many years. I loved it but after decades of driving on SF Bay Area freeways I started realizing that I was too far into the "break" part of my life and old enough to realize that "the car always wins no matter who was at fault".

When I got the 7 I realized it had some of the same concerns as the bike but it was really on a different "risk" scale altogether. As has been noted, we are not going to "win" a head to head battle with a "regular" car or truck, but we are also not going to die or even get seriously hurt in a minor skirmish, unlike on the bike.

I enjoy driving the 7 on the street, but also as has been noted by others I drive it VERY defensively, erring on the side of caution in all lane changes, passing, everything when around other cars.

I find I still have this nearly insatiable "need for speed" but have gained enough wisdom to know that the street is not the place for it, unlike so many (not all young) others I see demonstrating their stupidity daily.

Thank God (and capitalism) for the ever growing availability of HPDE and other on track events that allow us to go have great fun at high speed with a low risk.

I have gained the wisdom to know that at 68 I'm not the sharp eyed and quick reflexed driver I was even at 50, much less at 30. I keep contemplating adding a full roll cage and a splitter to the 7 but then think that it would probably only make me more prone to overdriving my abilities to justify them ;-). On the other hand I did pick up a Necksgen device and arm restraints a few years back, see, risk analysis at work.

I guess it all comes down to deciding what risk you can manage, keeping out, as much as possible, of situations you cant manage through no fault of your own and taking what precautions you can.

If I lived in the country I'd still ride, but not here.

If I find I'm becoming unsafe at something I'll quit.

In the meantime I'm going for it!

[CASwede]

Funny. The older I get, the higher my risk tolerance. Life's been better to me than it should have been, and I want to squeeze every drop I can before a piano inevitably drops on my head. The 7 is like squeezing life with vice grips. I won't trade the sensation. Quality, not quantity.

[BusaNostra]

My greatest worry is not sitting & driving an unsafe car but having an Alzheimer disease. I need to renew and sharpen my aging brain.

 

Modifying - innovating & fixing a sevenesque car is refreshing to me.

Edited March 14, 2015 by BusaNostra

[wemtd]

As one of the younger, and hopefully not dumber, readers: I expect we all perform an individualized risk/reward calculus and proceed accordingly.

To be safe you could live in a sealed room drinking vegetable smoothies and easily outlive the rest of us.

However, if it's quality and not just quantity that counts each of us must choose where in the safe - danger spectrum to live.

[slomove]

I have had a few close calls with the Seven:

- 2003: rear ender in LA freeway jam (small car driver on the phone), very low speed no injury at all but quite some damage ($3500 to fix by pro shop, insurance paid)

- 2012: rear ender on a highway (another Seven following too close for a passing maneuver that I had to abandon), high speed but moderate differential speed and luckily with a clothing duffel as fender. No injury but a rear end re-build that I fixed myself.

- 2015: driving on Mulholland highway spun out in a curve. I am still not sure how that happened. I don't think I was driving really that fast but probably a combination of cold tires, old tires and maybe a wet or sandy spot on the road. No damage and stayed on the pavement but could have ended up really bad with more traffic or going off the cliff.

 

So, I drive more careful nowadays but I am aware that I take more risk driving this car than in my Honda Accord. I am not so much concerned about the truck next to me on the Freeway. Never had a problem situation with that so far in 60k miles (knock on wood). And yes, I do have a fuel cell and a fire suppression system. Also, I added a bunch more tubes in likely rear impact areas.

Edited March 15, 2015 by slomove

[NVP66S]

I have had a few close calls with the Seven:

 

- 2015: driving on Mulholland highway spun out in a curve. I am still not sure how that happened. I don't think I was driving really that fast but probably a combination of cold tires, old tires and maybe a wet or sandy spot on the road. No damage and stayed on the pavement but could have ended up really bad with more traffic or going off the cliff.

 

Could it have been 'Drop throttle oversteer' ?

[Mondo]

I was pretty adventuresome before kids (started family late 30s)... then I hung up most risky things for the kids sake, and the fact that kids are money pits;) Now it's getting to be "my time" again so I echo pretty much the consensus... go fast at the right time/place with more safety gear.

[Anaximander]

Toedrag, I want to thank you again for responding with some interesting recommendations. I rode my Harley up to the SCCA autocross regionals in Cecil, GA this morning and treated every car as if the driver was trying to kill me. I constantly scanned my mirrors and kept my head on a swivel and realized that the riding experience was quite a bit different than the lulled sense of people doing the right thing that I sometimes get into. I can't wait to do the same with my normal commuting vehicle. The only thing I noticed is that it is a lot of WORK to maintain that level of vigilance. I would sometimes find myself drifting into complacency and then begin the whole scan, swivel, anticipation thing again. I can see where this will likely make a huge difference in being much more alert to my surroundings and the fools that are trying to kill me:jester:

 

On an even more positive note, Scott Minehart placed First in the SCCA Autocross Regionals at South Georgia Motorsports Park this weekend in his new AXR Stalker in E Modified. Glen did well and Krista won her class. However, it was sort of a gimmie for Krista as she was the only female in E Mod. Scott continued to tweak the suspension and the whole family reported that they really liked the way the car was performing. Apparently, it had been tending to push the front end and with the suspension tuning, it was performing like Goldilock's would have liked. "Just right".

Edited March 15, 2015 by Astro Bob

[toedrag]

Toedrag, I want to thank you again for responding with some interesting recommendations. I rode my Harley up to the SCCA autocross regionals in Cecil, GA this morning and treated every car as if the driver was trying to kill me. I constantly scanned my mirrors and kept my head on a swivel and realized that the riding experience was quite a bit different than the lulled sense of people doing the right thing that I sometimes get into. I can't wait to do the same with my normal commuting vehicle. The only thing I noticed is that it is a lot of WORK to maintain that level of vigilance. I would sometimes find myself drifting into complacency and then begin the whole scan, swivel, anticipation thing again. I can see where this will likely make a huge difference in being much more alert to my surroundings and the fools that are trying to kill me:jester:

 

Kudos for giving it a try! Glad you found it useful. You're right that it's exhausting at first, but it gets easier with practice.