GPS Lap Timer system?

[SK400]

Friends,

I'm looking to install a GPS lap timer system on my Caterham to get ready for a few track events this summer (and to keep up with my twin sister Simon :cooldude:). Does anyone have any recommendations on best or most relevant systems for the money? Very specifically, i'm looking for a rather basic but yet expandable and user friendly / install friendly system that

1) measures and gives in lap timing, best lap, etc

2) downloads to a computer all basic data such as lap time, g force, and basic engine readings

3) could connect to a camera / mic (wire ok but wifi or bluetooth is best) at a later stage

 

Recommendations, pros and cons, are welcome.

Thank you all in advance for the help and advice

 

Sebastien

[xcarguy]

Seb,

 

I run a Traqmate system. Not the cheapest, but will run two cameras, data logging, sync data and video, downloadable, etc. (same system I used at the 2914 NJMP event). See my install and Traqmate website:

 

Install: http://www471.pair.com/stalkerv/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=25221

 

Traqmate: http://store.traqmate.com/default.asp

[Croc]

If you get an AIM Solo DL and then get the J1962 plug connection adapter then you will catch GPS data plus read a variety of data direct off the Caterham ECU. The ECU pumps out CAN data which is not OBDII but is readable for the AIM Solo. You will need to specify your type of vehicle as a Noble, since they use the same ECU as Caterham. Works on my CSR and seen it working on Jeff S's R500.

 

The data feeds are shown in this youtube test I did

 

 

Its ECU data and it is giving some unusual readings on some of the data channels eh? But the intake temps were useful for validating my cool air intake modification.

 

 

For cameras you can manually overlay the data onto multiple Go Pro footage via the RaceRender application - its very easy to do once the track day is over. Or you can be lazy and buy the SmartyCam system from Aim which integrates automatically. You will need to set up a 12v cigarette light power outlet as it runs batteries down pretty quickly if you are recording multiple sessions in a day.

Edited February 14, 2016 by Croc

[SK400]

Thanks both

what do you think of Racelogic 10 Ghz GPS unit? looks like a lot more expensive, worth the money?

[Croc]

You definitely need a minimum 10Hz GPS system to get the level of accuracy given the speeds we are going. But you don't have to pay much for getting that feature - about $100 for the QStarz GPS receiver that I used prior to getting the AIM Solo.

 

I used a Vbox/Racelogic a few years back on a Caterham at Oulton Park. At the time I found it was inferior for video quality but the data gathering was (at the time) better than its competition. Time has moved on and they still offer the same performance monitoring units but the competition has caught up and while they have upgraded to HD cameras but you will still get a better image off a GoPro. Their analysis software included in the kit is superb but you can buy that separately. I remember it being a pain to install and we were just using GPS data. Short answer - I am not sure it is worth the premium. For maybe $500 less you could buy the equivalent kit from AIM that does everything you want on a plug and play basis with analysis software.

 

I suppose, the question to ask here is how much expandability do you want? None of the options are really truly expandable other than the professional versions or the Traqmate approach which is the only true modular option.

 

The logger market segments look something like this:

 

 

Cheap - sub $300 (use the phone as the camera or buy a cheap camera)

Harry's Laptimer

QStarz

Observe GoPro (or similar results)

 

 

Modest - $300-500 (buy a separate camera and sync data after event using Race Render/etc.)

Racechrono Touchscreen Pro (I used one of these for years and loved it)

VBox Sport

AIM Solo / AIM Mychron Light Lap timer

A bunch of motorbike track loggers

 

 

Middle Ground Amateur $500-$800 (still no integrated camera on these - buy a separate camera and sync data after the event)

Vbox Performance Box/Drift Box/Laptimer options

AIM Solo DL

AIM Mychron (fuller featured versions)

Traqmate Basic

 

 

High End Amateur $800-$1800 (takes the middle ground options and adds an integrated camera)

Traqmate with Traqdash and integrated camera options

Aim Solo DL with Aim smartycam

 

 

Professional $2000 up (with integrated cameras)

VBox HD/Lite/Pro

AIM DaVid

Race keeper - one of the NJMP regulars has a business installing data and video loggers and coaching drivers. He prefers these for their ruggedness and ability to be flexible with data collection. He says he has less problems compared with the other brands. He sells all units.

 

 

 

Unless you are going pro level with a permanently installed professional quality unit then I suspect your primary options will be with the higher end amateur Traqmate or AIM options. Pros and cons of each.

 

Pros

- Traqmate has good setup and service assistance - generally needed for some of the fiddly stuff.

- Traqmate is the only true modular unit. You buy the basic unit and you can later buy the add on parts to expand its capabilities.

- AIM Solo and smarty cam is true plug and play on a Caterham. Other than a 12v plug it needs no wiring. Can be easily shifted to other cars.

- Both companies have great analysis software.

- Both video options are now at good quality GoPro level. For years this was not the case. Both seem fairly reliable from anecdotal pit row observations. Both brands are well represented with Traqmate being more frequently seen.

- The AIM unit gives the impression of being more rugged than traqmate - solid metal cases, quite heavy.

- Both will automatically sync the data and video - after track day sync of data at home can get boring (I did it for a long time!)

- The AIM unit is the only one where you can plug into J1962 plug on a Caterham Duratec and get full data synced onto video along with GPS data. The rest require some hard wiring.

 

Cons

- Traqmate is not as plug and play as the AIM but that said its not massively difficult to set up either.

- AIM's support is pretty poor. Set up instructions are atrocious. Luckily the product is fairly easy to sort out. There are a few reps who will help out on the finer points of tech issues, which is lucky.

- None of the analysis softwares like Mac's - windows only please. Prior to making my decision I tried both softwares in a variety of windows emulation modes on my macbook and they all crash.

- Set up software is clunky for both but manageable so not a major issue.

[BusaNostra]

I have a vbox server - gps - racelogic - 2 inboard cameras & transponder

They are pretty good & has a robust configurable events

[SK400]

Guys, Mike,

thanks a super bunch for the info. This is most probably the most comprehensive review of all the track GPS lap timer systems out there. This is super helpful.

Based on this infor, i think i'm leaning towards the Solo DL system despite poor customer support (heard real bad) . '

Mike - where did you buy your system (especially that you have to specific that it is for the Noble). Also, where do you install the display in your car?

thanks again.

Sebastien

[yellowss7]

Seb, in the Orange car I have the Solo DL and the Aim Smarty cam unit mounted on the dash over on the right side just past the last gauge. Karl did a neat install. And I can see the lap times on the solo display if I glance over to view it as I come down the front straight. Tom

[Croc]

The ideal permanent installation is the one that Tom describes. If I wanted it permanent I would copy Tom's layout.

 

I move my unit between cars and take it with me for the overseas track days. So I use a combination of the Backing plate at here

http://store.m-world.us/collections/aim-solo-solo-dl-spare-parts/products/backing-plate-aim-solo-all-models

to which I mount a ball mount so I can use the Ram mounting system to clamp it to one of the tubes running around the dash/chassis.

http://www.rammount.com

 

The smartycam base unit is also anchored via a RAM phone mount with a ball head and then to a chassis tube via clamp. It all works but I do get into a tangle of cables but that is the price of keeping things portable so I can move it around different cars.

 

 

I bought mine through M World. Very helpful with the set up plus he has clarifying instructions on his website that you will not find in the instructions or on the AIM website.

http://www.m-world.us/welcome.html

 

M World also did a custom split head lead so that I could have both 12v power and an external mic.

 

The bit about specifying it as a Noble is done by you. As part of the set up you have to set the car ECU so that it will read through the OBDII plug. When you set it as a Noble it will just read the data.

http://www.aim-sportline.com/download/ecu/stock/noble/NobleM400_MBE975D_103_eng.pdf

[JBH]

Just a quick comment - Traqmate allows you to break the track into segments and look at the data associated with each segment. What might be of interest are segment time, entry speed, g-forces, exit speed and the ability to zoom so you can see the effect of the line you take in each corner on each lap. It's a great learning tool if you want to spend the time to analyze your sessions. I would imagine AIM does the same, but I've never used their software - Croc can confirm.

[MichaelD]

Are Caterhams still using Pectel ECUs?

[yellowss7]

Michael, I think the Cosworth Duratecs were using MBE and I think Caterham used them too with their Duratecs. Don't know what the Sigma engined cars used. Tom

[SK400]

Thanks for awesome and detailed info. I need to install a12 volt outlet to power all of this. I assume any model would do correct? Is there special Caterham magic in installing one? Never know with this car.

 

On a separate note, do you know if these systems could be paired with a Bluetooth or wifi camera? There is a new camera out there called 360 fly (360fly.com) that allows you to film 360 degrees at all time. You can then edit and replay the movie on your phone or computer selecting the angle you want. I tried it last year at limerock. Very cool (seeing me approach, pass, and then pan the view angle following the car I just passed. ). Would be cool to link it to the gps lap timer systems

[Croc]

I would imagine AIM does the same, but I've never used their software - Croc can confirm.

 

Yes both the Traqmate, VBox/Racelogic and AIM analysis software supports track segmentation for better analysis. Even my old Racechrono Touchscreen Pro did this. Segmentation is very helpful as it shows where you are making progress and where you are not.

 

 

Are Caterhams still using Pectel ECUs?

 

Not totally sure but I think they started moving away from Pectel in the middle of the Zetec era. My former yellow 2004 Caterham used the Ford Oak ECU (which actually had a working OBDII). However, my current 2004 maroon Caterham has an MBE. However the Duratecs have consistently been using the MBE from what I have seen. The Noble uses an MBE ECU which is why the AIM can read the Caterham ECU when you set the AIM SOLO DL to Noble.

 

Thanks for awesome and detailed info. I need to install a12 volt outlet to power all of this. I assume any model would do correct? Is there special Caterham magic in installing one? Never know with this car.

 

I am no electrician but I managed to install one on my old yellow SV under the dashboard. The CSR has it on the rear firewall between the seats which seems to be the standard Caterham positioning. I vaguely recall someone saying newer cars have a wiring harness that allows an easy splice and installation there. It certainly helps with a camera on the roll bar. It may be worth a search of Blatchat to check that.

 

 

On a separate note, do you know if these systems could be paired with a Bluetooth or wifi camera? There is a new camera out there called 360 fly (360fly.com) that allows you to film 360 degrees at all time. You can then edit and replay the movie on your phone or computer selecting the angle you want. I tried it last year at limerock. Very cool (seeing me approach, pass, and then pan the view angle following the car I just passed. ). Would be cool to link it to the gps lap timer systems

 

I am not aware of any system that this would integrate with, let alone retaining that functionality. You could use Race Render to overlay data (comma delimited format in a spreadsheet) but doing so would force you to fix your video perspective.

 

At any rate, I find bluetooth or wifi to be somewhat hit or miss with our cars due to a lot of electrical interference from unshielded electronics. The basic remotes for cameras seem to work ok these days but bluetooth microphones do not in certain parts of the seven and my experiments at live streaming video have always been failures from electrical noise in the picture and signal bandwidth issues.

Edited February 16, 2016 by Croc

[xcarguy]

. . . I need to install a12 volt outlet . . . .

 

Seb,

 

You need a source of power (battery) to the outlet with a 30 amp fuse between the power source and the outlet, and a ground for the outlet. It's pretty much that simple. If you want, you can add bells and whistles such as a toggle switch for power and an indicator light.

[SK400]

Love it! the best diagram ever.

thanks much!

 

now i'm all set .. thanks everyone

see you on the track soon.

[Croc]

Looks like Shane is having crispy duck for dinner? What sauce to serve with it...? :rofl:

[xcarguy]

Looks like Shane is having crispy duck for dinner? What sauce to serve with it...? :rofl:

 

Personally, I'd settle for a large order of 'well done' Storker. :jester:

[BruceBe]

Mike,

 

Is this a standard Cosworth-encrypted ECU that you are using? I'm impressed that you are getting TPS and some of the temps.

 

Cheers,

-Bruce

[Croc]

Hi Bruce

Yes, just the standard ECU. My CSR has the stock locked Cosworth ECU. I have also seen it work on an R500 using the standard locked ECU and I tested it successfully on a Duratec roadsport. So its not just a Cosworth thing. Only works where you have an MBE ECU though. The ECU was always pumping out CAN signals through the J1962 plug as you could alway read the signals real time by Easimap and some people had rewired the plug to feed data loggers for track work. What AIM did was work out how to log the MBE ECU signals to overlay with GPS/lap time and video on a very simple plug and play basis. It was just luck that Noble uses MBE ECUs so you could extend that work into Caterhams. Its not perfect as I need to invert the TPS signal and I am validating all channels to make sure they are accurate. There are other channels logged not shown on that test video - I excluded them as they were giving strange values that I did not trust. I bet thats because they are labelled wrong and I just have to relabel them correctly.

Cheers

mike