Duratec rattle

[Off Road SHO]

You'll probably have to use the ol starter bump method. Breaker bar with socket on bolt, rest bar against top of driver's side frame rail and bump the starter.

 

Tom

[Lancefitzgiben]

Even with no oil in the motor? I've got push button start, so "bumping" is really really difficult.

[Alfonse]

A good pneumatic impact wrench usually gets them loose, but I suppose you would have tried that if you have one.

[oilteq]

I rattled mine out with an electric impact wrench, but the engine was out of the car.

[Off Road SHO]

Even with no oil in the motor? I've got push button start, so "bumping" is really really difficult.

 

Yup. It's only going to make one 16th of a revolution.

 

Tom

[jlumba81]

Don't suppose you'll have a straight shot to the crank bolt if you remove the radiator and use a long extension?

[wemtd]

lance

check the thread from May regarding timing cover/crank bolt removal (Yellowss7). I think all the necessary details are there: pull engine for access - sorry.

 

p.

[yellowss7]

My mechanic was able to get the crank pulley bolt off and retightened without pulling the engine. But he did make a tool to hold the pulley in place while he did so. It was a buster of a job as I remember quite a few emails and discussions on the process. He did loosen the motor mounts to allow him to raise the engine a bit for better access.

 

Tom

[Lancefitzgiben]

Finally got the bolt out using a longer bar and someone standing on the brakes.

 

Sadly there's nothing obvious behind the timing cover, so I'll spend some time reading and thinking.

 

Oil viscosity was brought up by the shop who put the motor in. Good thought and possibly a contributor - but the noise popped up all of a sudden after 160 quiet miles.

[d15b7]

hi again. have you drained the oil out and looked at it in the pan in the sunlight? look for 'pixie dust' little tiny gold specs in the oil (bearing materials). you can also get a tool which will cut the oil filter apart and you can examine that for metal debris too.

 

if you don't see anything horrifying you can always throw on a fresh filter and put in fresh oil (of the proper viscosity) and start her up and listen?

[oilteq]

Oil viscosity was brought up by the shop who put the motor in. Good thought and possibly a contributor - but the noise popped up all of a sudden after 160 quiet miles.

 

Fuel dilution or polymer shear will cause viscosity to drop. If you achieved the highest oil temperature at 160 miles, temperature has a surprisingly big affect on viscosity.

 

If you want to mail me a sample to test viscosity, send me a private email. However, we will not know if viscosity dropped unless you also send a sample of the new oil for a baseline.

 

You can use 10W-30 or 15W-40 (in my Duratec 2.0 now), preferably a mineral oil. If that does not solve the problem, it is not viscosity related. If you do not have a catalytic converter, a diesel engine oil that also meets gasoline engine oil specs (API CJ4 / SN) will give you more anti-wear additive.

 

If you do not have easy access to a filter cutter, you can clamp the filter in a vise and cut the can off with a hammer and chisel. Wear a glove on your chisel hand as the sharp metal from the can will easily cut. Do not ask how I know.

 

Blaine

[Lancefitzgiben]

I know that oil loses viscosity as it heats up - but the car had been run many times to warmer temps and didn't display any odd noises.

 

I'm at a loss at this point

[Lancefitzgiben]

Been out of the country for a bit - gonna be back on this problem soon. We're going to pull the pan next and inspect the bottom end; since the timing cover is off it's an easy job to pull it.

[Lancefitzgiben]

Pan is off and everything is super clean - as you'd expect. Does anyone have assembly specs and/or tolerances of a 2.0 duratec with cosworth internals?

[vstryker]

Try this, the Cosworth manual I used for my rebuild:

 

http://dubaipetrolheads.com/biggles/download/CSR260%20_Build_Manual.pdf

[Lancefitzgiben]

Thank you! That could be some help

[Lancefitzgiben]

Okay,

 

Had a few more guys over today to bang heads and shoot ideas around. One guy ended up picking up the crank pulley to check out the way that the cps great is attached. Long story short, the three button head screws that hold that plate on were ground down, and one was backed out/quite worn. we'd forgotten about it, and hadn't given it much thought at the time - but that central timing cover bolt was beat up when we removed it..

 

I think that's the source of the noise. Whether or not there's something else that's making that occur; I'm not sure yet. Everything is in spec on the bottom end, and we did measure crank thrust.

 

One potential is the lack of the forward diamond/friction washer on the crank - which is missing. I've got one behind the gear but there isn't one on the front. That can account for a bit of tolerance.

 

How about the fact that it only happens warm? Is everything really expanding that much?

 

Anyway, making progress.

Edited October 29, 2016 by Lancefitzgiben

[Lancefitzgiben]

To finish this up for anyone paying attention:

 

The car is back together and everything went smoothly! I've gotten just about another 400 miles on it since the issue and the car is now formally broken in according to the caterham recommendation.

 

I've been coming to adore this little thing, and can't wait to get it out on track this year.

[Croc]

Hi Lance - did that solve the rattle? Or is still there from the latest driving?

[Lancefitzgiben]

Hey guys. Been driving the car fairly regularly and it's now up over 1k miles. Running like a champ *knock wood* and seriously fun!

 

Other than a coolant odor that pops up now and then, everything seems pretty happy.