Tell me the pros and cons of this Birkin please.

[Lightguy]

I'm intersted in a Seven as the next toy and luckily have this close to me;

http://www.texasmotorworks7.com/2005-Birkin-Super-Seven-S-3-Super-sevan-Texas-76012/5876377

 

Originally I wanted a LOTUS but Dick Brink kinda sorta talked me into the advantages of a clone including HP and reliability.

 

I'm a quality freak being a former aircraft inspector so am looking for a top notch kit/build but at a depreciated cost.

I'm a VALUE buyer (not cheap just want the best bang for the buck)

 

Also came across this but it may be too radical;

https://dallas.craigslist.org/ndf/cto/5998993363.html

[Alfonse]

IMHO that is a fantastic Stalker. If you want something smaller that appears to be better value to me than the green one, have a look at this one:

 

http://bringatrailer.com/listing/2009-birkin-s3/

[Kitcat]

I agree that the Bring a Trailer Birkin is pretty irresistible. It has updates and features the isotope green Birkin at TMW lacks (IRS, cage, supercharged Duratec, etc). If I were in the market, it would be at the top of my list. The Stalker would be second, tho( I think....)!

Edited February 26, 2017 by Kitcat

[Lightguy]

IMHO that is a fantastic Stalker. If you want something smaller that appears to be better value to me than the green one, have a look at this one:

 

http://bringatrailer.com/listing/2009-birkin-s3/

 

Ya I'm watching that one too.

 

Shhhhhh !

 

Just you an me know about it right ?

 

I do like the lime green cars sequential tranny though and its local.

[Lightguy]

I agree that the Bring a Trailer Birkin is pretty irresistible. It has updates and features the isotope green Birkin at TMW lacks (IRS, cage, supercharged Duratec, etc). If I were in the market, it would be at the top of my list. The Stalker would be second, tho( I think....)!

 

Is the IRS a big deal in a 7 ? I was told its not.

I like the idea of it but the bullet proofness of a solid rear also has advantages.

[Davemk1]

I owned a Birkin years ago with a solid rear axle and it worked very well as long as the road was smooth. If it was bumpy or ripply you could certainly feel the back end struggling to stay on the floor. If you buy a Birkin with a live axle I would strongly advise changing the track rods out for something with rose jointed ends if it's not already set up that way. My car had the stock rubber metalastic bushings which limit roll and give way too much roll stiffness and make the car very tail happy. I put new rods in and they were better in every way....smoother ride and more predictable handling.

 

I think the first thing to consider is do you want a more traditional Seven type car (Lotus, Birkin, Westfield...etc) or do you want one with a more hot rod type character like a Stalker. They have VERY different characters and feels to them and I think some will love one and not the other.

 

I owned a Birkin many years ago and now have a Westfield and while they are much different in design they have a similar feel and character.....and this feel is certainly my personal preference.

 

As for the quality.....I think most of the quality that you will find in these cars stems from the peson who built it and less from the design. My Birkin was poorly assembled (I bought it used) and it took me a very long time to bring it up to a level I was happy with. I'm a very detailed (anal) guy who builds very high end bicycle frames for a living and the build quality of the Birkin I bought was not up to snuff for me. When I went to get in a Seven type car again I chose the Westfield Mega S2000 and bought it as a complete kit so I could control every little thing about it and now I really enjoy having things be just the way I want them to be. Plus with the Honda S2000 engine running throttle bodies it's very quick and has more than enough power to really make the car move.

 

So.....what type of experience do you think you'd want? Traditional Seven or a Stalker with a V8?

 

dave

 

P.S. - One thing I forgot to mention - if you buy a Birkin with a Zetec the exhaust is on the driver's side and I found that very tiring on a hot day. All that noise right at hip level along with the heat was a bit of a bummer for me personally. When I went shopping for a second Seven it was down to the Birkin with a Duratec of the Westfield with the Honda S2000 because both put the exhaust out on the passenger side. So nice not to have to worry about stepping over that hot thing between autocross runs!

Edited February 27, 2017 by Davemk1

[Lightguy]

I owned a Birkin years ago with a solid rear axle and it worked very well as long as the road was smooth. If it was bumpy or ripply you could certainly feel the back end struggling to stay on the floor. If you buy a Birkin with a live axle I would strongly advise changing the track rods out for something with rose jointed ends if it's not already set up that way. My car had the stock rubber metalastic bushings which limit roll and give way too much roll stiffness and make the car very tail happy. I put new rods in and they were better in every way....smoother ride and more predictable handling.

 

I think the first thing to consider is do you want a more traditional Seven type car (Lotus, Birkin, Westfield...etc) or do you want one with a more hot rod type character like a Stalker. They have VERY different characters and feels to them and I think some will love one and not the other.

 

I owned a Birkin many years ago and now have a Westfield and while they are much different in design they have a similar feel and character.....and this feel is certainly my personal preference.

 

As for the quality.....I think most of the quality that you will find in these cars stems from the peson who built it and less from the design. My Birkin was poorly assembled (I bought it used) and it took me a very long time to bring it up to a level I was happy with. I'm a very detailed (anal) guy who builds very high end bicycle frames for a living and the build quality of the Birkin I bought was not up to snuff for me. When I went to get in a Seven type car again I chose the Westfield Mega S2000 and bought it as a complete kit so I could control every little thing about it and now I really enjoy having things be just the way I want them to be. Plus with the Honda S2000 engine running throttle bodies it's very quick and has more than enough power to really make the car move.

 

So.....what type of experience do you think you'd want? Traditional Seven or a Stalker with a V8?

 

dave

 

P.S. - One thing I forgot to mention - if you buy a Birkin with a Zetec the exhaust is on the driver's side and I found that very tiring on a hot day. All that noise right at hip level along with the heat was a bit of a bummer for me personally. When I went shopping for a second Seven it was down to the Birkin with a Duratec of the Westfield with the Honda S2000 because both put the exhaust out on the passenger side. So nice not to have to worry about stepping over that hot thing between autocross runs!

 

Thanks for the considered and detailed response.

I never even thought of a S2000 Engine in a 7. I like the idea as that 9K Rpm engine has always intrigued me. Ferrari has some. Honda should have pushed it to 10K just for the bragging rights I don't want a motorcycle engine but a proper automotive engine.

Now in my mind the "perfect" 7 would be a S2000 engined Caterham with IRS and sequential shift.

Gotta think this through and I am extremely patient.

Usually it takes me a year or so to nail it down. Took me 2 years each for my other 5 collectables.

I DO want a Seven as this car has always appealed to me.

This will happen.

[yellowss7]

IMO, if you are looking for a track only car, the sequential is nice. But I don't think it's ideal for the street. My Sadev sequential with the Geartronix paddle shifters, is really smooth shifting when revving the nuts off it, but anything less than that it's not. Again, my personal experience, but since I have another Caterham with a caterahm six speed I can give a fairly unbiased and experienced opinion. On track and street the Caterham six speed is the better option. Tom

[Croc]

I owned a Birkin years ago with a solid rear axle and it worked very well as long as the road was smooth. If it was bumpy or ripply you could certainly feel the back end struggling to stay on the floor.

 

As for the quality.....I think most of the quality that you will find in these cars stems from the peson who built it and less from the design.

 

I agree with Dave. I have both a Caterham with IRS and a Caterham with de dion. On track where it is smooth there is negligible difference between the two. In the NJMP Lightning corner with 15 degree banking the CSR just squats and puts the power down beautifully whereas the de dion struggles but thats the only corner where I could pick a difference.

 

On the road, the IRS makes the Caterham feel like a big car and it is the fastest point to point back road car I have ever driven. Bumps do not throw it offline or tire out the driver.

 

All sevens usually require fettling to sort them out. All of mine have.

 

 

You dont always need a Caterham with IRS - the CSR is now silly money. A Birkin with IRS with a hi performance 2.3L Duratec, a Sadev box and 13 inch wheels with 8 inch rubber, would be fantastic on track. If it is more a road car then the Caterham 6 speed box would be my choice instead of a Sadev.

 

But you dont really say what your anticipated use of a seven would be? Exclusively road with an odd track day? A total track toy? That will dictate your spec choice in the end.

[Davemk1]

I'm sure if one is handy and crafty that you could stuff an S2000 drivetrain in most Sevens but I think the Westfield Mega S2000 is the only Seven built to work with the Honda set up from the start. It's a plug and play deal and works very, very well.

 

Here's my car this past fall near my home in Bozeman, Montana. If you have any questions about building a Westfield just let me know.

 

Dave

[Lightguy]

I don't really know the ultimate usage.

I drove Formula cars for 30 years off and on then quit. Tracking at this time is not in mind.

Tracking might be down the road but primarily street is what I imagined.

Sorry to see a sequential is not so street friendly.

Never had one but the concept intrigues; (Ruf CTR fan)

[Lightguy]

I'm sure if one is handy and crafty that you could stuff an S2000 drivetrain in most Sevens but I think the Westfield Mega S2000 is the only Seven built to work with the Honda set up from the start. It's a plug and play deal and works very, very well.

 

Here's my car this past fall near my home in Bozeman, Montana. If you have any questions about building a Westfield just let me know.

 

Dave

 

Thanks.

I LOVE that color scheme !

Great picture !

Even though I am an ex-aircraft mechanic with a multitude of tools the idea of building one is not appealing.

My business consumes too much time plus it would be nice to find a depreciated car already.

[Davemk1]

Thanks.

I LOVE that color scheme !

Great picture !

Even though I am an ex-aircraft mechanic with a multitude of tools the idea of building one is not appealing.

My business consumes too much time plus it would be nice to find a depreciated car already.

 

Cool, I completely understand. If you are serious about having a S2000 engine in the car you might reach out to the importer of Westfield - Manik - http://www.manikllc.com/ . There was some talk of them being able to bring in turn-key cars that are ready to drive this year.

 

It's a wonderful car.

 

 

dave

[xcarguy]

I've owned a Birkin (TMW purchase) and I now own a Stalker (lady in waiting). If you're set on a Birkin, I'd go with the Bring A Trailer auction simply because the car looks to be well sorted and the fact that Tom carlin has had his hands on the car (tuning). I'm a Cat fan first, but don't own one because they are, as Croc pointed out, 'silly money'. I'm a Stalker fan second, and, if properly set up, they are silly fast with the LS power plants. However, I do also like the Birkins, and the white Birkin is a 'bang-for-the-buck' car; I'd head in that direction. If Tom tuned the car, I'll bet he also drove the car. Pick Tom's brain . . . I'll bet the white Birkin is also silly fast with the SC.

[jimrankin]

The WCM S2K has was designed and in about 98% of the builds is powered by an S2000 drive train with a Subaru IRS rear differential and suspension. That is about as bulletproof and low maintenance a drive line as you could put together no matter where you went for source. Of course if you want much more than the stock 240 HP you are either going to have to go with forced induction or get pretty exotic with aftermarket parts.

[US Texas 7]

lightguy,

I have a WCM S2K and am near by in Waco. Be glad for you to take a look and test drive. This is my second Seven. You will like S2K for country drives or road trips. This car has been driven Houston TX to San Francisco CA, Detroit MI to Waco TX and other shorter trips. I have driven it 13,000 miles past 3 years. Previous owner won many races around the country including being SCCA Central Division Pro Solo D/Modified Champion a few times. I believe these are among the most trouble free Sevens. This one was a "Turn Key" built by World Class Motorsports in Lancaster TX (Dallas). Personal Message me if you would like to try it out.

Edited March 1, 2017 by US Texas 7

[Lightguy]

PM'd back.

Sorry for the delay.

[JeffersonRaley]

I would avoid any car built by TMW unless it has been sorted by a more experience mechanic (like the BAT one was). It has taken 3 years to sort mine out, and some of the shortcuts TMW took were astonishing.

 

But to your original question, I really enjoy my Birkin. I choose it over the other options because of I wanted IRS and Caterhams hold their value too well. I paid less than half what a similar Caterham would have cost. For me the Westfields, Ultralites, Stalkers, etc were too dissimilar from the original Lotus look. That said, I've driven or ridden in a bunch of them and they are all insane fun. In my experience the difference between specific cars is greater than the difference between different makes. For example I've driven an Ultralite that was sublime, and another that was dangerously bad.

 

http://www.usa7s.net/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=12319&stc=1

Edited March 17, 2017 by JeffersonRaley

[Kitcat]

JR: Several of us here have also had a similarly disastrous (catastrophous?) experience with TMW "assembled" Birkins. I think it is why Tom Carlin is now the exclusive Birkin dealer. He takes no shortcuts.

Back to the fun stuff: I love your car collection and devotion to orange as the color theme. And, for me, bright colors make the most sense on these hard-to-see se7ens, if they are regularly driven on the street.

[Lightguy]

Sad to hear the scuttlebutt about TMW.

Thanks for the input.