2019 Sevens HPDE - Save the Date for June 28-30, 2019

[Kitcat]

The rules changed. Best to do in advance rather than at the track. I remember a team of mechanics working unsuccessfully last year to swap out belts in a Caterham at the track. Bottom line, you need to take the seat out. Also, the "anchor" belt can't just bolt to the floor, as it is flimsy aluminum. Instead there has to be some solid bracing there or reinforcement (beyond a washer) or some other system to ensure the anchor belt doesn't pull out. The whole point of the anchor belt is to keep the lap belt over your hips (your body's hard points) and to not ride up into your more vulnerable stomach area.

 

The belt typically comes up thru a cut-out in the seat cushion and your seats do not have a belt cut out (not that hard to add). If, instead the belt folds over the front of the seat cushion before it buckles in, that typically is not compliant. In a wreck, the seat cushion compresses and the anchor belt stretches out and allows the lap belt to ride up, defeating the purpose.

 

PITA, I know, but it is your health that is at stake.

Edited April 17, 2019 by Kitcat

[yellowss7]

I believe the UK guys say that you can bring the crotch belt up behind the seat cushion and sit on it having the belt caress the jewels. :ack:

 

I remember when I assembled Yellow that the crotch belts attached at a point where the seatback attached. there were two places that I had to slightly enlarge the holes but it was a simple task.

 

Another seven owner did a really nice job of putting a hole in the seat bottom for the belt to come thru and used a plastic part that is used for cords that come thru desks etc. it was a real neat install. Not hard to do, probably can get the plastic parts at IKEA or on Amazon.

 

Helmet has to be 2010 or newer, Auto helmet not Motorcycle. Again, can be rented at NJMP

[Croc]

Jcerier

 

You look to have the Schroth 4 point belts - buckle looks like theirs. What expiry date is on their label?

 

Assuming they are in date then you need to buy the crotch belt which is sometimes sold as a separate add on - at least the Caterham ones are. To install, you remove the seat and bolt the supplemental belt (probably 2 point fixings) to the chassis tube (or rear seat base attachment) at the back and rear of the seat well/cavity/hole. Run the belts forward. Reinstall the seat but leave the removable seat squab/base cushion off. Pick up the crotch belt and lift up - reinstall the seat base. You will now sit on the belt on the seat cushion and it curves up past the wife's second best friend to clip into the buckle. No hole needs to be cut in cushion. I have my Caterham 6 point belts done this way on the exact same seat in your photo - its how its done by Caterham in the UK. Can provide a photo this weekend.

 

When you dont need the crotch belts you just hide them under the seat cushion

 

If Schroth does not sell a crotch strap separately then you are up for a complete belt changeover as the belt buckles have to match up. Having tried a number of brands over the years I have found the Caterham branded set of belts (available at Caterham PArts in the UK) to be just as good as anything. They are sized for the car. Just call the parts guys and have them sent out.

 

Personally I find the requirement for 6 points silly - there is no way I can submarine into a Caterham footwell! However, thats what they want for us to comply with. I dont know what your driving is like but a little extra safety never hurt Kitcat!

 

 

 

To all - please read the instructions carefully. Please do not rely on someone accidentally paraphrasing incorrect information in a post here. That was how we had a participant arrive with incorrect equipment last year - I would like to prevent that disappointment happening this year.

 

 

Edited April 17, 2019 by Croc

[Kitcat]

Croc:

 

Yes, there is a reason I have a full cage, fire suppression system and a FuelSafe tank w/bladder and foam:).

 

And back to silly rules: out of staters should know that NJ does not allow gas stations, including the fuel stations on site at NJMP, to sell extra gas for storage in your fuel jugs IF the jugs are not red! Mine are white, so I can't buy gas there to store in my trailer....

 

But that's it for the BS, this event is so cool it's worth the tiny bit of inconvenience.

[panamericano]

Croc, or other informed person,

 

Explain why a double anti-submarine belt is better than one. If you have two, they are so close at the contact point that it may as well be one? Depending on "which side you carry on", I don't see any benefit. With a 5 pt., you won't submarine and the rest of the harness is held in place?

 

More important to pull everything tight. I have see many that do not. When I rallied, after a multi-day event I would have bruises on my shoulders. I liked that.

[Croc]

I am informed as I have personally discovered the side effects of 5 point belts in one memorable but relatively minor occasion....

 

 

The squeamish should exit this thread now.

 

A 5 point belt has a single chassis connection and a single buckle connection. It comes up between your legs and overlays the genital area. In an extreme event e.g. crash, then the belts stretch. I dont care how tight you cinched them up - they will stretch in a sudden deceleration event. At this point two testicles get lovingly rammed up into your pelvis as if you were back in your pre-pubescent days and potentially up past your tonsils, permanently altering the voice octaves and onwards into the roof of your mouth. Needless to say its not nice. If that single belt is slightly offline then you can potentially have what doctors call a "degloving" event. I will caution you strongly against googling photos of this....its horrific.

 

A 6 point belt still has the single buckle connection but two spread chassis connections. In theory, a well adjusted belt will form an inverted "V" so that the wedding tackle will nestle comfortably in between the two belts (think abseiling/climbing harness look). In a stop then the belt pressure is more directly spread safely around leg/pelvis area. Pretty easy to make it all work in a regular race car. However, in practice very few take the time to adjust themselves into position while belting up. I usually leave a little slack around the crotch strap anyway since I have an institutional memory.

 

Have I turned you off dinner?

[panamericano]

Croc,

 

Thanks for clearing that up. I guess we should stop making fun of the way you talk.

[wemtd]

I came across a case report in a trauma journal of some sort a few years ago reporting on a European rally co-driver who came to an abrupt stop from high velocity. He was wearing a 6-pt harness and experienced a double prolapse. Surgeons reduced the prolapse, putting things back from whence they came and sutured up the driver. He was right as rain and back in racing form in no time at all.

 

Hopefully this is all academic and no one here ever needs to truly test their safety gear.

Edited April 18, 2019 by wemtd
technical correction - Injury Extra (2007) 38, 314—316

[BlueBDA]

My belts are dated to be good through 2019. But if I go to all the effort to upgrade to 5 or 6-point, I'd probably replace them, as I'd just need to next year anyway. I like the idea of 6-pt better than 5-pt. I assume the two bottom belts would get installed the same way as the single one for the 5-pt?

 

I am informed as I have personally discovered the side effects of 5 point belts in one memorable but relatively minor occasion....

 

 

The squeamish should exit this thread now.

 

A 5 point belt has a single chassis connection and a single buckle connection. It comes up between your legs and overlays the genital area. In an extreme event e.g. crash, then the belts stretch. I dont care how tight you cinched them up - they will stretch in a sudden deceleration event. At this point two testicles get lovingly rammed up into your pelvis as if you were back in your pre-pubescent days and potentially up past your tonsils, permanently altering the voice octaves and onwards into the roof of your mouth. Needless to say its not nice. If that single belt is slightly offline then you can potentially have what doctors call a "degloving" event. I will caution you strongly against googling photos of this....its horrific.

 

A 6 point belt still has the single buckle connection but two spread chassis connections. In theory, a well adjusted belt will form an inverted "V" so that the wedding tackle will nestle comfortably in between the two belts (think abseiling/climbing harness look). In a stop then the belt pressure is more directly spread safely around leg/pelvis area. Pretty easy to make it all work in a regular race car. However, in practice very few take the time to adjust themselves into position while belting up. I usually leave a little slack around the crotch strap anyway since I have an institutional memory.

 

Have I turned you off dinner?

[Kitcat]

JC: there is a new thread on installing belts that should answer your question.

 

Incidentally, I also use a HANS hybrid device that is supposed to help keep my neck/head stable in a collision. Imagine driving your car head on into a concrete wall: the belts will do their job and everything will be restrained, except your head. And with its heavy helmet it will snap forward and that can cause severe injury/death, as evidenced by the tragic death of Dale Earnhardt.

 

It is a total PITA to put on, and restricts head rotation but once buckled up and on the track it becomes, to me, unnoticeable. I am not saying folks all need to get this, it is expensive, optional, etc., just mentioning it as another safety feature for those interested.

[Croc]

Cross posting the link for the discussion thread on belts

http://www.usa7s.net/vb/showthread.php?12286-Racing-harness-anti-submarine-belt-mounting

[yellowss7]

It's now just about 2 months before our event. Hopefully most of you have ordered your parts, and have almost finished any preseason tech or repairs. For some reason some always wait until the last minute to get their cars ready. Speaking of which, I need to install new harnesses in the Yellow car and follow up on a starter rebuild.

 

I've heard from a couple more guys who plan on attending and I've added them to the list below. We are still hoping to hear from a few other who have either attended or had hoped to in the past. FE07, Dermot, OR7, Inchochate, Blake, etc. Plenty of room for others as well if you'd like to come out. As I've said before this is the best way to learn and use our cars, in a safe and friendly environment. Se7en's only run group and a Novice group with no passing for first timers, cant' beat it.

 

So get your cars ready, (JBH, that includes you finding and installing a new engine.:leaving:) Looking forward to another great weekend of Se7en fun. Tom

 

1) Croc

2) YellowSS7

3)Vovchandr

4)Jcerier

5)Wemtd

6)Fast G

7)Chris S

8)Kitcat

9) Dan F

10) Scott L

11) Jeff H

12) Seb

13) Roman

14) John B

15) Tom C

16) Blackhole (Jay)

17) Neil H

18) Dave H.

19) Simon450

20) Steve M

21) Marc E

22) Todd R

23) Norm B

24) Steve O

Edited April 27, 2019 by yellowss7