breezy7 Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 The spade connectors look like they are for the horn. The toggle switch maybe for a flash to pass the headlights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Hole Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 The left switch is a momentary switch to flash the headlights. The right switch is two position for high / low beams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokey Posted June 12, 2020 Author Share Posted June 12, 2020 The spade connectors look like they are for the horn. The toggle switch maybe for a flash to pass the headlights. The loom had connectors for the horn, and the connectors are female not male, but I suspect that you are right and they have something to do with a particular horn configuration that I don't have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokey Posted June 12, 2020 Author Share Posted June 12, 2020 The left switch is a momentary switch to flash the headlights. The right switch is two position for high / low beams Aha! Thanks Jay. I thought the rocker switch was off/low/high but I see now that what I thought was low is actually the running lights. Would you know whether the front wing lights should be on with the headlights when the rocker is in the middle (running lights) position? If not then everything is working as it should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Hole Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 Aha! Thanks Jay. I thought the rocker switch was off/low/high but I see now that what I thought was low is actually the running lights. Would you know whether the front wing lights should be on with the headlights when the rocker is in the middle (running lights) position? If not then everything is working as it should. I just checked - the lights on the wings are only turn signal flashers. Never realized that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokey Posted June 12, 2020 Author Share Posted June 12, 2020 I just checked - the lights on the wings are only turn signal flashers. Never realized that. Thanks Jay, appreciate the help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokey Posted June 14, 2020 Author Share Posted June 14, 2020 While I await the fuel line retaining clip from England, I went ahead and used some safety wire to prevent the fuel pressure from backing out the fuel line from the sender and tried firing the car again yesterday. It eventually fired but ran rough and wouldn't idle. The idle issue was solved when I realized the idle set screw was missing, but it still ran rough. I also noticed that the exhaust header from the #4 cylinder seemed hot relative to the other cylinders so pulled the plugs expecting to see #4 lean and the others rich. Instead the opposite. Anyone have any ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokey Posted June 14, 2020 Author Share Posted June 14, 2020 Never mind. I cleaned the #4 plug and put the plugs back in the order they came out but swapped the #1 and #4 coils. Started and still rough. Unplugged the lamda sensor and idle was all over the place. Plugged the lamda back in and idle calmed down and seemed close. Adjusted the idle set screw a bit more and now it idles smoothly. Glad whatever the problem was is gone, but am not a fan of mysterious self-healing problems. What is the correct idle speed on these Duratec's anyway? At 900 RPM it lopes a bit and at 1200 it is smooth but seems to be too fast to my ear. Last night I was researching how to pull error codes and found the SBD MBE-MAP-KIT-3-CAN kit. Don't really need to go to this extent to get the idle set, but maybe handy to have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky-7 Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 I went round and round with Caterham over this, adjusting the hair trigger idle screw to the proper voltage etc. The idle would keep creeping up and up on its own, and surging all over the place. Driving it made you look like a complete idiot. Galloping all over the place. You couldn't ease the clutch and throttle without both jerking you back and forth. They finally sent me a new ecm, but I'm still wondering... because it only runs good with the O2 sensor disconnected, and I keep getting a code for a cam position sensor "A" bank 2 and misfire on cylinder #1. Even after the new ecm. Very puzzling... Anyone know which is Bank 2? Exhaust or intake? Anyone know what the voltage output/signature of the cam sensors are supposed to be, so I can test it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokey Posted June 15, 2020 Author Share Posted June 15, 2020 I went round and round with Caterham over this, adjusting the hair trigger idle screw to the proper voltage etc. The idle would keep creeping up and up on its own, and surging all over the place. Driving it made you look like a complete idiot. Galloping all over the place. You couldn't ease the clutch and throttle without both jerking you back and forth. They finally sent me a new ecm, but I'm still wondering... because it only runs good with the O2 sensor disconnected, and I keep getting a code for a cam position sensor "A" bank 2 and misfire on cylinder #1. Even after the new ecm. Very puzzling... Anyone know which is Bank 2? Exhaust or intake? Anyone know what the voltage output/signature of the cam sensors are supposed to be, so I can test it? With the lamda sensor connected does it run well at higher engine speeds? If so it sure sounds like the lamda sensor. Interesting that Caterham sent you a new ECM. They must have thought that they installed the wrong map. How are you reading the codes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave W Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 Rich mixture indication [one plug]. Options: Add injection cleaner to the system, clean the one injector, replace injector. DaveW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sf4018 Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 Pokey - going back to post #199 about the 2 mystery wires, I asked Caterham also about this last year. They said it was used for racing 420R cars for the oil tank temperature sender, but was not required otherwise. I guess they have different ECU programs for different applications. But I had the spare sender (as you do) and so I installed it anyway in the hole near the bottom of the oil tank and attached one of the spades to that, for the second spade I drilled a hole in the bottom flare of the tank and bolted on a ground connector. I'll send a pic if you want. I ran the car with it connected and disconnected and couldn't tell any difference in operation, so they are probably right it's not used, but as OCD as I am it just felt better being connected. When I dug into the CANbus I couldn't find it there either, though I got bored somewhat after finding all the good stuff. About idle - my 420R idles at 950-1000RPM, don't know if that's the best RPM for idle but it seems fine to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I B Sevener Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 Greg, Not knowing your specific issues, I am taking a stab here though I MAY have some insight. It occurs to me that when you first tried to start your car and the pump assembly came apart, you may have had inadequate pressure so all the fuel went to the one cylinder. Then when you secured the pump and cleaned the plug the engine ran for the first time but roughly. We had the same initial rough running experience with our Sigma engine and were told by a Caterham engineer that the engine should be allowed to idle unmolested for at least 15 minutes during which time it will do two things: 1) Get warm enough to kick on the fan to confirm that it in fact does come on appropriately while getting the engine up to full temperature so it can, 2) Learn...which means the ECU self feedback loop finds the correct settings for your density altitude. It worked for us :~) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokey Posted June 16, 2020 Author Share Posted June 16, 2020 Pokey - going back to post #199 about the 2 mystery wires, I asked Caterham also about this last year. They said it was used for racing 420R cars for the oil tank temperature sender, but was not required otherwise. I guess they have different ECU programs for different applications. But I had the spare sender (as you do) and so I installed it anyway in the hole near the bottom of the oil tank and attached one of the spades to that, for the second spade I drilled a hole in the bottom flare of the tank and bolted on a ground connector. I'll send a pic if you want. I ran the car with it connected and disconnected and couldn't tell any difference in operation, so they are probably right it's not used, but as OCD as I am it just felt better being connected. When I dug into the CANbus I couldn't find it there either, though I got bored somewhat after finding all the good stuff. About idle - my 420R idles at 950-1000RPM, don't know if that's the best RPM for idle but it seems fine to me. Thanks! Good to know what those wires in the bay are used for. Guess I'll go inverted and see if I can find the other end somewhere behind the gauges. I read somewhere that a common mod is to wire in a switch so the coolant temperature gauge can double as a gauge for oil temperature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokey Posted June 16, 2020 Author Share Posted June 16, 2020 Greg, Not knowing your specific issues, I am taking a stab here though I MAY have some insight. It occurs to me that when you first tried to start your car and the pump assembly came apart, you may have had inadequate pressure so all the fuel went to the one cylinder. Then when you secured the pump and cleaned the plug the engine ran for the first time but roughly. We had the same initial rough running experience with our Sigma engine and were told by a Caterham engineer that the engine should be allowed to idle unmolested for at least 15 minutes during which time it will do two things: 1) Get warm enough to kick on the fan to confirm that it in fact does come on appropriately while getting the engine up to full temperature so it can, 2) Learn...which means the ECU self feedback loop finds the correct settings for your density altitude. It worked for us :~) You know that rings true to me - that the ECU was trying to compensate for the reduced fuel pressure the first time we attempted to start the engine and the second attempt with normal fuel pressure required the ECU to take some time to find the right fuel/air mix. Thanks I B, I feel better having at least a working hypotheses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokey Posted June 16, 2020 Author Share Posted June 16, 2020 Rich mixture indication [one plug]. Options: Add injection cleaner to the system, clean the one injector, replace injector. DaveW Things seem to have cleaned out so I don't *think* it is injector related. Time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky-7 Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 Hi Greg, my idle was all over the place. Even with the new ecm. They told me that if I unplug the o2 sensor the computer will go to a default mode. I unplugged my sensor and it runs a lot better. No issue at higher rpm. I've got a Snapon scan tool. I have to read the codes through global generic OBD. I told Caterham I was getting a misfire code on cyl 1. And a cam position sensor code. With both the old and new ecu's. They didn't seem concerned. Kinda bothers me... There was a couple other codes, but it said manufacturer specific. I should contact them again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokey Posted June 22, 2020 Author Share Posted June 22, 2020 Hi Greg, my idle was all over the place. Even with the new ecm. They told me that if I unplug the o2 sensor the computer will go to a default mode. I unplugged my sensor and it runs a lot better. No issue at higher rpm. I've got a Snapon scan tool. I have to read the codes through global generic OBD. I told Caterham I was getting a misfire code on cyl 1. And a cam position sensor code. With both the old and new ecu's. They didn't seem concerned. Kinda bothers me... There was a couple other codes, but it said manufacturer specific. I should contact them again. Well... yesterday I thought I'd idle it for a bit while I worked on other things, and low and behold the problem is back. I can force it to idle rough at about 1300 - 1400 rpm but otherwise stalls. Runs rough in general, but better at higher revs, and the #4 header is discolored while the other three look near new. Lambda connected or disconnected has no impact. I've reached out for Bruce in hopes he's seen this before. I've found the cable and software used with these particular ECUs. Spendy for what it is so haven't pulled the trigger yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sf4018 Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 Well... yesterday I thought I'd idle it for a bit while I worked on other things, and low and behold the problem is back. I can force it to idle rough at about 1300 - 1400 rpm but otherwise stalls. Runs rough in general, but better at higher revs, and the #4 header is discolored while the other three look near new. Lambda connected or disconnected has no impact. I've reached out for Bruce in hopes he's seen this before. I've found the cable and software used with these particular ECUs. Spendy for what it is so haven't pulled the trigger yet. Which software/cable you gonna use? The one I bought gave me decent real time sensor feedback but error codes were useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokey Posted June 22, 2020 Author Share Posted June 22, 2020 Which software/cable you gonna use? The one I bought gave me decent real time sensor feedback but error codes were useless. Just ordered the cable from SBD Motorsports. They either manufacture or work closely with the manufacturer of the ECU. The cable is more than a cable as it does some signal processing that in conjunction with their (free) software Easimap provides access to all codes. Happy to update with what I learn if there is interest, but imagine it will be a few days for the cable to get here from the UK. I have a cable and software from another manufacturer but it won't even recognize the ECU. Didn't like the idea of spending $200 on a cable for an ECU I'm not convinced I'll keep in the mid- to long-term, but don't really have much choice short of replacing the ECU now. Oh well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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