DanM's Westfield Miata

[DanM]

@JohnCh

 

Hey John, It could be a Miata thing!  Here is a picture from the the build manual I am following -Published 2006.  You'll notice the manual is for a RHD car! 

 

[MPG]

Quote

If I am not mistaken the fuel lines run along the bottom of the floor before they turn up into the engine bay?

 

Mine are the same. Most of the run is above the bottom of the lowered floors. But ahead of the lowered floor, they are exposed for a short run. It didn't seem too bad to me because there's a lot of other stuff projecting below the floor in that area. Such as the sump! I built a kevlar skidplate to provide a little peace of mind.

 

I do think that it's related. to the size of the Miata gearbox compared to the one the Westfield chassis was originally designed for. Things get really tight at the rear of the gearbox.

Edited March 22, 2022 by MPG

[DanM]

@MPG

 

I was wondering if anyone had installed a skid plate instead of shortening the sump. If you have a photo would you consider sharing it with me?

[MPG]

Sure:

 

https://blog.garritys.org/2017/06/skidplate.html

 

I don't think kevlar will do anything to prevent crushing from bottoming out hard, but I do think it'll help against puncture wounds from sharp rocks.

 

Luckily I haven't really had to test it. It certainly does pick up some scratches thoug:

 

 

[MPG]

Revisiting this part of the build reminded me of this one from @Croc's latest weekly list:

 

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1962-lotus-seven-5/

 

Modern engines are tall! Squeezing them under a 7's bonnet is hard.

[DanM]

Nice job!!! I wasn’t expecting something that well planned and executed!! 

[DanM]

4 hours ago, MPG said:

Revisiting this part of the build reminded me of this one from @Croc's latest weekly list:

Lol At first glance I thought that was a Ford Coyote!! 

[DanM]

Two steps forward and and One step back....

 

As the title suggests things haven't quite gone as I planned recently so I had to take some time away from the build, get rid of my frustration and rethink my plan.

 

After a semi successful attempt at running the fuel lines, followed by a good practice bubble flare on a piece of offcut, all was looking good for salvaging my install.  Unfortunately, when it came to the real pipes the bends must have been too close to the flaring tool for it to get a good hold and neither flare came out well enough to keep!   A new coiled length of fuel pipe was ordered from the local parts store and while I was at it I also bought a roll of Nicop brake pipe.  I'm hedging my bets here and figured I might as well prepare myself for a similar experience with the brake line! 

 

After week or two away from it all, I decided to get back in the garage this weekend and tackle some simple tasks to get my head back into it.....

 

Pedal box Install

 

Did I say simple task? lol! what a joke!

 

The pedal box sits atop the foot well between two steel rails, and is secured with four M6 bolts. A simple install that I could check off the list in about 10 mins right?!.........wrong!

 

I started by cleaning out the nut threads with a tap....all good so far!

 

 

Then when I presented the pedal box to the car, the "COVID" chassis struck again.  The two attachment rails are positioned a bit too close together and the welds were quite large.  The result, I couldn't fit the pedal box between them. 

 

 

Not only that, but the bolt slots on the sides didn't line up with the pedal box either....

 

 

At this point the chassis was upside down, so I decided to flip it over to get a better look.  After a short stint with some "tools of persuasion" I had to resort to the dremel and start removing material.

 

First from the rails...

 

and then from the pedal box.

 

Finally, after what seemed like an eternity of fettling, grinding and drilling, it was in and after a couple of coats of paint on the bare metal it was done!

 

 

[MV8]

Dan,

if you bend the last 2-3 inches of fuel pipe away from the panel about 15 degrees, it will be much easier to fit the hoses. A little lubrication on the bender "ORL" grooves and trying to slide/pulling the handle helps. A roller bender like a Wilmar W80674 is handy for close, smaller radius bends.

Flaring steel line is difficult due to the clamping force required. Use a bench vice to clamp the flare tool off the car. Besure to deburr the edge of the flare with a fine flat file if it is for a slip-on hose. The edge can shave tiny slivers of rubber into the line that can cause problems later. Blow out the lines with compressed air before connecting the hoses to make sure nothing is inside. For brakes, I'd use common epoxy steel premade brake lines and couple or adapt as needed. You could use the same for fuel.

Dorman has compression fittings for joining sections of steel fuel line and repair kits to replace quick connect fitting barbs.

Straight 1/4 inch and tree shaped 3/8 inch bastard/double cut carbide rotary files with a 1/4 inch shank for use in a normal drill are handy for slotting and deburring.

[DanM]

Thanks for the tips @MV8.  I will definitely keep them in mind when I get back to the pipes! 

[DanM]

A bit more paneling.

 

With my 10 min pedal box job turning into an afternoon of grinding and painting, I decided to go back to basic, basic stuff....Like riveting a few more panels.

 

Dwayne Johnson eat your heart out!

 

I'm trying to maintain as much access as possible to make installing the sound deadener a bit easier so I focused on the DS tunnel, scuttle and seat back panels.

 

My hands were so numb that I struggled to get the Aluminum wrapper off! 

 

Final piece for today, originally by choice, but after I pinched my chest muscle in the riveter as I was leaning into it, it was game over for me! 😬

 

Now sitting on the couch in pain, but with a big smile on my face.  Feels nice to make a little more progress.🍻

[DanM]

Had another hour spare so quickly nipped into the garage.  Decided to do one more panel, which will be the last for now. 

 

 

Now, I'm just waiting for my tube straightener to arrive and I'll be back on the fuel and brake lines again.  Hopefully much wiser and prepared!

[DanM]

Fuel Line 2nd (3rd, 4th 5th.....) attempt 😣

 

Without doubt running fuel lines has been the single most frustrating part of my journey so far......and the includes the Miata tear down, parts refurb and wiring harness clean up.  For some reason, it just didn't come together easily for me, even with all the great tips and tricks that people have shared with me on the forum. I feel a little embarrassed by the shear amount of pipe I had to go through to get it to what I think is "done"!

 

 

Before I do cartwheels, I just want to run this photo past the Westfield Miata builders in the group to check that where I have terminated the pipes at the rear will not interfere with any other part of the build.  Any help will be greatly appreciated!

 

Edited April 26, 2022 by DanM

[lg2k]

The fuel lines look good to me. The exact location they end up should not matter too much since the rubber hoses they attach to are flexible and the length can be adjusted. 

 

I hope you have better luck than me but the fuel system as designed is not great. The standard fuel tank sump was pretty useless. Below 3/4 full I would get fuel starvation on left hand turns and medium acceleration between shifts. 

 

I designed a whole new tank adding a much bigger sump in the bottom middle of the tank, an in tank fuel pump,  and also added capacity to extend the range a bit and the problem has been solved 95%. I now get a bit of hesitation when accelerating really hard between the 1st and 2nd shift at less than 1/4 full. Cornering is good on track at any fuel level. Looks like a swirl pot is needed after all to fix the hesitation 100%.

[DanM]

Thanks @lg2k.  Sounds like you've had to overcome a few problems.  Are you doing a lot of track?

 

[DanM]

Brake Lines

 

Lots of mistakes & practice = Learning & Progress.

 

 

I'm happy to say that after wrecking the Westfield supplied brake lines and a coil of NiCop, I have finally started to get into a rhythm with the brake lines.....(I said I was a noob! 🤪)

 

One of my biggest frustrations were my pipe bending pliers. They kept digging into my lines.  In fact, after a number of attempts, I thought had successfully completed the long run between the master cylinder and the rear T. However, on closer inspection, I noticed that the pliers had dug into my lines in a couple of places.....enough to put so much doubt into my mind (road worthiness inspection, cracking over time, etc.) that I decided to tear them out, buy a new coil and start again.

 

New coil of NiCop.

 

One of the plier marks.

 

The other challenge for me was that because my chassis is slightly different to the other SDV build threads I have seen, I didn,t have any pictures of the route so had to figure out a new one at the end of the tunnel.

 

Old chassis

 

New Chassis

 

Finally I settled on running the pipe through the small gap in behind the rear hand brake cable bracket and follow the chassis towards the T.  Hopefully there will not be any interference.... only time will tell! 🤞

 

 

Here's the front end....

 

 

As always, any feedback, critique or pointers are very welcome.  I will start to rivet everything in place over the next couple of days.

 

 

[lg2k]

14 hours ago, DanM said:

Thanks @lg2k.  Sounds like you've had to overcome a few problems.  Are you doing a lot of track?

 

Not a lot. While the fuel issue is really noticeable on track, on the road you have to be mindful below 1/4 full. I had to be careful not to accelerate too hard or I would get an annoying dash check. I think just adding a swirl pot fixes the problem. 

 

The brake lines look good. I didn't have to fit the 3rd line going to the charcoal canister so I used that one after messing up the first. I also got extra practice running the lines to the ABS unit which ended up working pretty well. There is a bit of a learning curve to it. I also bought a flaring tool and a Blue-Point bender. The Harbor Freight one sucked.

 

[JohnCh]

My car uses a swirl pot and has zero issues with starvation.  Another option to consider is the Holley Hydramat.  Unlike the swirl pot, no secondary pump is needed, and it doesn't require tank removal to fit.  No first-hand experience with it yet, but I am using one in my upcoming build.

 

-John

[Croc]

I have just installed Holley Hydramat in the BMW CSL.  Seems to have fixed my left hander starvation issues and pick up issues on the last half of the fuel cell.  More testing coming up.  Easy to install and plumb in.   Cleaner installation than a separate swirl pot as it is all contained within the tank.  

[lg2k]

3 hours ago, JohnCh said:

My car uses a swirl pot and has zero issues with starvation.  Another option to consider is the Holley Hydramat.  Unlike the swirl pot, no secondary pump is needed, and it doesn't require tank removal to fit.  No first-hand experience with it yet, but I am using one in my upcoming build.

 

-John

I forgot it also requires a second pump. The two options I considered were the Holly Hydramat and the Aeromotive Phantom 200 Stealth Fuel Pump. I thought the Aeromotive 18689 would work better but it didn't eliminate the starvation issue entirely.