wdb's Caterham Super Seven

[wdb]

Seems appropriate that I start a thread about my recent acquisition. I've always wanted a Lotus, either a Seven or an Elan (the Europa dropped off the list after I had a chance to sit in one). This particular car was on an auction site and physically located near me, however at the time I was very busy with Life Things and could not pursue it. Lo and behold a little more than year later it reappeared on the same site, and now I was free to chase it. Short story, I won it. 

 

Rather than post a bunch of pics I'll just post one, and link to the auction site where there are a bunch more.

 

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/caterham-super-seven-2/

 

 

Edited October 3, 2022 by wdb

[wdb]

A bit of background is probably in order. I owned, and daily drove, British cars back in the 1970's through the 1990's. I also worked as a mechanic at a British car dealership for a few years as well. I know a lot about British Leyland stuff. I also owned a 1966 Cortina GT, which I consider to be far superior to the 1968 BMW 2002 I owned -- but could not afford to keep -- before the Cortina. The GT was just such a joy to toss through the twisty bits. Alas Ford was in the process of abandoning them in the US at the time, and parts were hard to find, so we parted ways. I once looked at a Lotus Cortina, but it had been run hard and put away wet as the saying goes. (Hmm, that car needs to be added to my list of desired Loti.)

 

Fast forward a few decades and I find myself once more in a position to chase my fun car jones. So far I've bought a few BMWs, a Porsche 996 targa, and this Caterham. I still own them all, although one of the BMWs is probably going to go. Anyone interested in a very sweet driver quality Z4MC?

 

 

[Vovchandr]

Welcome and congrats! It was meant to be!

[IamScotticus]

Looks like a proper Caterham.

Sdkllkrgss

I have 342900

Needs flared wings!

Edited October 3, 2022 by IamScotticus

[Croc]

11 hours ago, wdb said:

 

Fast forward a few decades and I find myself once more in a position to chase my fun car jones. 

 

 

An excellent motto in life!  Congratulations on your Caterham acquisition.  I thought you got a good deal - being patient is a good thing sometimes. Needed a bit of fettling and care but the price more than reflected that.  

 

Have you been enjoying the driving experience so far?

[wdb]

14 hours ago, IamScotticus said:

Looks like a proper Caterham.

Sdkllkrgss

I have 342900

Needs flared wings!

 

I really like cycle fenders, plus they hop up and down with the wheels which adds a visual enjoyment factor. But I must admit to wondering what screaming yellow clamshell fenders would look like.

 

3 hours ago, Croc said:

 

An excellent motto in life!  Congratulations on your Caterham acquisition.  I thought you got a good deal - being patient is a good thing sometimes. Needed a bit of fettling and care but the price more than reflected that.  

 

Have you been enjoying the driving experience so far?

 

Thanks to you and the others for the warm welcome. I really liked this particular car because of the Lotus twin cam engine. The seller was convinced that the price the second time around would be lower; I was not, and was honestly quite surprised. But you're right, there is sorting to be done.

 

The first time I drove the car was to get it home from the seller's house, about 1.5 hours door to door, mostly on twisty secondary roads. The first 10 miles or so were on a road with a real washboard surface; I was constantly feeling the back of the car hop sideways as it skittered over the undulations. Plus even with my skinniest shoes it was and is a challenge to hit just one pedal at a time; mainly brake and clutch. It was quite a learning curve. By the time I got home I was ready to be out of the car to be honest. But after grabbing some lunch I got right back in! It's been a long time since I've driven anything this simple and direct, and I don't think I've ever driven a car anywhere near as overwhelmingly joyful. It puts a smile on my face every time I give it some beans, every time I flick the wheel. Heck, every time I climb in.

 

[wdb]

First bit of sorting is to control the vapors emanating from the fuel cell. Our garage is insulated and fairly airtight, and the fumes build up in there when the car sits overnight. I poked around and found that the fuel cell vent was just sitting there open to the atmosphere. No kind of piping at all. Taking a left turn 'with enthusiasm' would cause fuel to slosh out. I bought a little vent filter from Summit Racing, which looked very cute but did little for the sloshing and zero for controlling vapor emissions.

 

Google to the rescue, I hope. I found some general instructions on reducing vapor emissions from a fuel cell and used them to fashion a solution for my situation. The basic idea is to have a few loops in the vent line, higher than the filler neck. Easy in my case because there is none. From there the vent line should run down to a point below the the bottom of the fuel cell. 

 

http://www.radiumauto.com/Fuel-Cell-Vent-Kits-P1518.aspx

 

First image is from that link, the next 3 show my interpretation for the Caterham. Hopefully I've made better use of the cute little Summit Racing filter. This morning the garage still smells of 93 octane, but not as strongly as before. I may need to do another cleanup of the overflowed fuel to get a full, fair test of the vent.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 4, 2022 by wdb

[MV8]

Another alternative to a lot of fuel hose is to use a jeep roll over valve (YJ or CJ) or expansion tank (like geo tracker). It would be compact and effective at about $25 for rollover and slosh from cornering, plus break the vacuum so fuel could drain back from gravity in the straight versus sitting in the loops to be pushed out at the next corner. However, if working properly, none of these prevent venting and a fuel smell in the garage.

 

To prevent fumes, if you can prevent any fuel from leaking out the vent pipe under any conditions, a small charcoal canister could added at the end of the hose then as you empty the tank, fumes collected in the can are pulled back into the tank from the vacuum (must have sealed filler cap). Not as effective as vacuum purging through a hose restrictor but better than nothing.

 

Look at commercial landscaping equipment or carbed 70-80s oem cans for sufficient tank capacity.

 

Any liquid fuel reaching the can will solidify the pellets and ruin the can.

 

[wdb]

The fuel cell vent connector contains a rollover valve. It's logical when I think of it a bit, because this car was originally intended to be raced and subsequent owners have maintained that objective.

 

I did look into charcoal canisters but didn't love any of the solutions I saw. Short of designing and constructing my own version of a modern fuel vapor recovery system, which seems to me to be antithetical to the car. I'm not completely abandoning it as a solution though.

 

I'm not certain of the full science behind how the loops are intended to function, but part of it is definitely to stop vapors from escaping. If this afternoon's whiff of the garage is anything to go by they are working. Also I think the rise from tank to top of the loops is sufficient to keep sloshed gas from making its way up and over, especially if I am careful not to fill the tank too much. (A functioning gas gauge would help but this cell is not so equipped.)

[Croc]

 

Your solution with the rollover valve, the loops of tubing, and careful placement of the vent is how I did it on my 65 Mustang and BMW.  Works just fine.  I'd vent the garage and see if it stopped the problem.  If not then have a look at all fuel hoses to make sure you don't have a vent somewhere else that you should not.    

[MV8]

That's why I mentioned "works properly" because a vent line with fuel in it doesn't vent. It will push the fuel out to the ground if the delta is great enough. The loops are essentially the same as a P trap on a sink preventing vapors from escaping the septic tank. The tank must vent out for thermal expansion and in to allow fuel to leave the tank to reach the engine. The details of actual use and conditions will determine the balance and how effective it is at keeping fuel from being pushed out of the hose on to the ground.

An evap system does not have to be bulky, ugly, or complicated. The simplest system removes the odor, reduces moisture collection from using ethanol blends, and cuts fuel evaporation emission by about half.

For a passive purge evap system, assuming a filler cap that normally only vents into the tank, you need:

1)      a small charcoal canister

2)      a roll over/pressure check valve with a hose fitting

3)      a 5/16 fuel hose between them

4)      a 5/8 heater hose on the atmo side

5)      To keep out water and bugs, some window screen and zip tie to hold it on or a breather like you have on the other end of the canister that cannot let bugs and water enter the can. That's all it takes. Weight is minimal. No engine driven purge.

Direct tank mount: https://www.fisheriessupply.com/perko-tank-mounted-fuel-tank-vent-line-valves-epa-compliant/0588f00

No tank mod inline fuel/air sep/surge tank: https://www.fisheriessupply.com/perko-air-fuel-separator-epa-compliant/0488001

A 1/2 liter can that will last as long as you keep water and fuel out of it: https://www.fisheriessupply.com/perko-marine-carbon-canisters-epa-compliant/0486005035

It is best to have the can above the vent valve or separator. For no tank mods, a line off the tank vent horizontal to a corner to put the separator as high as practical near a coilover, then down to a low mount canister should prevent any fuel reaching the can.

Since this is not a required system, you can use whatever you want. For lower cost, automotive valves, a diy surge and can could be used. The can is just that; charcoal aquarium pellets with filter material on each end to keep the bits from migrating out and a spring loaded plate to keep them compacted so they don't move back and forth from vehicle motion and abrade/crumble into powder.

Auto cans typically have a plug in the purge line somewhere with a tiny hole to limit the amount of engine driven vacuum applied to purge so that could be removed and left open to passive purge with water and bug protection.

[coffee break]

The fuel tank isn't the only source of vapors, the carbs are vented. Mine add to the octane aroma in the garage.

[TheDingo8MyBaby]

On 10/3/2022 at 2:33 PM, wdb said:

I also owned a 1966 Cortina GT, which I consider to be far superior to the 1968 BMW 2002 I owned -- but could not afford to keep -- before the Cortina. The GT was just such a joy to toss through the twisty bits.

Earlier this year I bought a 1966 35k mile Mk1 Cortina with a built x-flow from eastern pa (Reading) and was intending to sell my 1972 BMW 2002, but ended up keeping the 2002 and the Cortina. The 2002 is much more refined and performs much better over rough roads, but is very utilitarian and isn't nearly as fun to drive as the cortina. The seven blows them both out of the water in that regard, though. 

 

Looks like a great car that you can enjoy and improve over the years. Congrats!

 

I have 3 cars with dual 40DCOE's in my garage and I can attest to @coffee break's point.

 

 

Edited October 5, 2022 by TheDingo8MyBaby

[IamScotticus]

I love the smell of octane in the morning...

[wdb]

Thanks for the tip on the Webers. I conducted a more localized sniff test this morning and sure enough the aromas are emanating from up front; the fuel tank area is clear. I still smell gas in the garage but my wife doesn't, and that may be good enough. It might have to be, from the sounds of it.

 

I know I'm particularly sensitized to the smell. I used to love the smell of gasoline, but that changed during the 1970's energy crisis when I accidentally swallowed a bit of the stuff when siphoning from one car to another. I can attest to the fact that gasoline belches are not pleasant.

[wdb]

On 10/5/2022 at 5:25 AM, MV8 said:

That's why I mentioned "works properly" because a vent line with fuel in it doesn't vent. It will push the fuel out to the ground if the delta is great enough. The loops are essentially the same as a P trap on a sink preventing vapors from escaping the septic tank. The tank must vent out for thermal expansion and in to allow fuel to leave the tank to reach the engine. The details of actual use and conditions will determine the balance and how effective it is at keeping fuel from being pushed out of the hose on to the ground.

Thanks for the details. That setup is pretty much where I was before finding the looped line solution.

 

I don't think the loops function the same as a sink trap. Those keep liquid in the trap section to prevent gases from passing. They're one-way valves.

 

I suspect the loops in the gas vent might allow the vapors to condense somewhat rather than escape, or perhaps they take advantage of the difference in density between air and fuel vapors. Given the vertical rise and the number of loops I do not expect to see liquid fuel making it all the way through, except perhaps if I were to spend a few minutes maxing G's on a skidpad. I'll just have to wait and see if the system is capable of affecting fuel delivery to the engine if liquid fuel does actually pool in the loops.

 

The remnants of Hurricane Ian finally decided to mosey off late yesterday, so maybe today I can finally go for a romp---errr, perform some real world testing.

Edited October 6, 2022 by wdb

[wdb]

14 hours ago, TheDingo8MyBaby said:

Earlier this year I bought a 1966 35k mile Mk1 Cortina with a built x-flow from eastern pa (Reading) and was intending to sell my 1972 BMW 2002, but ended up keeping the 2002 and the Cortina. The 2002 is much more refined and performs much better over rough roads, but is very utilitarian and isn't nearly as fun to drive as the cortina. The seven blows them both out of the water in that regard, though. 

 

Looks like a great car that you can enjoy and improve over the years. Congrats!

 

I have 3 cars with dual 40DCOE's in my garage and I can attest to @coffee break's point.

 

 

Well whaddaya know. I live in Berks County PA; Reading is the county seat. 

 

I have to admit that it's been quite a few years since I sat in either a 2002 or a Cortina GT. I don't doubt that the BMW has a more refined ride and comfort level. But my memories are of it understeering and picking up its inside rear wheel with little provocation. It was capable, but it wasn't what I'd call fun. The Cortina on the other hand was more neutral and easier to power slide out of turns. "Power" of course being a relative term with either car! 

[wdb]

This car garners a completely different kind of attention than anything I've owned before. Two of my neighbors, female and distinctly *not* car oriented, want rides in it. They saw me out in the yard the other day and asked me to show the car to them. My friend's muscle car brother said "Wow those are cool cars!" which would not have been uttered about a Porsche I can assure you. Gas station stops have resulted in conversation 3 times out of 5 so far. Road construction crews give me thumbs up. It's really quite something.

[IamScotticus]

Its much easier to tell the admirers its a Lotus than to explain what a Caterham is.

Everybody know Lotus.

Im going to make a sticker with one of those QR scans that directs to a website.