Croc Posted December 4, 2022 Share Posted December 4, 2022 17 hours ago, JohnCh said: http://www.radiumauto.com/FPR-D-Fuel-Pressure-Regulator-Damper-P1716.aspx That Radium site is a dangerous spot for my wallet. They even make a fuel regulator look good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnCh Posted December 4, 2022 Author Share Posted December 4, 2022 2 hours ago, Croc said: That Radium site is a dangerous spot for my wallet. Bruce Beachman is a fan and has already put some of their parts on CatKong. So yes, the site has already been very bad for your wallet. For those who haven't seen their site, they do some very cool catch cans and also low profile, swiveling banjo fittings that can save the day when connecting to an ORB port and space is tight -John 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnCh Posted December 31, 2022 Author Share Posted December 31, 2022 Time for a long overdue update. The past month has been marked by a lot of activity but not much in the way of results. Between shipping delays, incorrect parts, two snowstorms, one ice storm, one windstorm, power outages, and the flu, things have taken a lot longer than expected. This has been compounded by far too much head scratching on how to make everything fit. Every aspect of the Caterham is very tight compared to the Westfield. Things I assumed would be easy to fit based on the Westfield, are anything but on the Caterham. Because this update is long and picture heavy, I'll break this into a few posts. First up, the dash - part 1. Before working on the dash itself, this was a great opportunity to de-immobilize the car. With that out of the way, the 420 gauge and switch sub-loom was removed in preparation for the 620 replacement loom, which has been on order for….months. The immobilizer is the bottom loom in this photo. Although the blank dash Croc acquired from Westermann for CatKong was well made and fit without any fettling, the dash they sent me appears to have been made from a different mold. The quality is not to the level that I expected. The hole for the steering column is offset by 1/3", the shape was off and required removal of 1/8" - 3/16" of material around the shoulders of the dash so the scuttle would fit, there are few places where mold surface imperfections are visible when the light hits it just right, and the surface was scuffed. Some time with 80 grit sandpaper, a file, and a buffing wheel made things acceptable from a fit perspective, but the cosmetic issues still bother me. In some light, it looks great. In others, it looks old and a little worse for wear. To be fair, the stock dash also arrived with some scuffing, albeit, not as severe. I plan to leave it as-is for now, but prior to gluing it in place, I may remove the display and switch gear then tackle it again with a more aggressive polishing compound. If anyone has experience here, I'd love the advice. Cutting the holes for the switches was a little nerve-racking. First challenge was drilling the holes in precisely the right spots. To facilitate this, I printed a drill template sized for a 1/16" drill bit that placed the switchgear to the factory 620 spacing, and aligned everything correctly in the vertical plane when rested on the lower hoop. Second was the drilling method. The Internet experts have a lot of opinions: specialty spade bits, sharpen normal drill bits after every other hole, only used carbide bits, drill backwards, only get the size close, then finish with sandpaper, etc. Through a little trial and error on the small section of dash cut out for the AiM, I discovered that a stepped drill bit works great on carbon fiber. I used normal, unsharpened drill bits, increasing in size from 1/16" to 7/32" then switched to the stepped drill bit and prayed to multiple deities. To add a little more rigidity, a backing plate was printed out of carbon fiber impregnated nylon. This is a great material for car parts as the carbon fiber adds rigidity, and the nylon is chemically resistant, and can handle 160C temps. I'm using this material for the other 3D prints that are part of the build. -John 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnCh Posted December 31, 2022 Author Share Posted December 31, 2022 For the AiM display, rather than attach it so the screen is in the same plane as the dash where it's prone to severe glare on a sunny day, I designed a two-part bezel that tilts it forward a little over 20 degrees and doubles as a clamp to attach it to the dash. This positions the display directly at the driver rather than over their head. Because the seat and steering wheel are not orthogonal to the dash, the seat and wheel were temporarily installed and adjusted for me, then the display location was optimized so it is centered in the steering wheel when viewed from that position. This means the display looks a bit off center when viewed from anywhere other than the driver's seat. Still to come are the steering wheel mounted buttons and the hidden glove compartment which will mount in front of the gear lever. -John 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnCh Posted December 31, 2022 Author Share Posted December 31, 2022 Next up, the fuel system. This isn't quite finished. I'm still waiting on a couple of fittings, but it's close enough to show pictures of in-progress work. The biggest challenge was fabricating a replacement fuel pump/sender/pre-pump filter assembly. As noted earlier in this thread, the stock setup doesn't allow the pump to reach the last gallon of fuel, uses a pump that is reportedly marginal for the power levels of this engine, has a sender that is more directional than accurate, and uses very small diameter hose. The replacement is a 3D printed lid, 255 lph pump, AN -6 fittings, capacitance fuel sender, and a Holley Hydramat. The fuel sender isn't here yet, but the white cylinder in the photo represents the head unit. A 1/2" diameter tube then extends into the tank at an angle, ending about 1/2" from the bottom front. Space in the tank is really tight and it took some fiddling to make all of this fit. Much time was spent experimenting with different fittings and how things were located on the lid to optimize available space. Unfortunately, I had to do this twice as my first attempt was made before fitting the Hydramat in the tank. When I did so, I discovered the tank has a baffle in the middle which forces the Hydramat closer to the fuel pump assembly than I anticipated. With the specific space constraints, this meant moving the pump from the right side of the lid to the left, then working out where the submersible hose and fuel sender tube would cross. Once the 90-degree fitting that attaches the Hydramat to the intake hose arrives, the fuel pump position on the aluminum bar can be finalized. I'll add a second hose clamp, cut the excess bar, and file some reliefs to help position the hose clamps. Then cut the hoses to length, add lock nuts and finish it up. I just hope it works One of the other shortcomings of the factory setup is a lack of a post pump filter. The sock that pulls the fuel to the pump operates as a pre-filter, but there is nothing between the pump and the injectors. To address this, I printed up a fuel filter holder that mounts the filter under the boot floor. It's out of the way but easy to access for maintenance. If one of the two missing fittings arrives tomorrow as planned, I should have the fuel plumbing 90% finished this weekend. That last 10% is the hose run from the front of the rail to the regulator/damper and requires that second missing fitting, which I don't expect until the end of next week. -John 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosteri Posted December 31, 2022 Share Posted December 31, 2022 The AIM installation looks great! I have the same ”doesn’t seem to be in the center” visuals with my gear change indicator, when not seated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sf4018 Posted December 31, 2022 Share Posted December 31, 2022 Really well thought out and executed, looks great, congrats! When I did redid the fuel system I was expecting the pump control relay to the left of the tank to be a dumb relay that switched on when the ECU command is on. Unfortunately for me it only pulses the pump on the rising edge from the ECU, it's basically looking for the engine rpm pulses to drive the pump. I ended up taking the relay out so the pump runs full time, but it's not particularly safe to do this if the engine is not running to have it pumping gas plus the battery drains really quickly. Looking forward to see what you come up with for this, I'll probably copy whatever your solution is. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnCh Posted December 31, 2022 Author Share Posted December 31, 2022 4 hours ago, sf4018 said: I ended up taking the relay out so the pump runs full time, but it's not particularly safe to do this if the engine is not running to have it pumping gas plus the battery drains really quickly. @sf4018, are you saying that without the pump control relay, the pump is fed by a constant 12v+ feed and runs even with the key off? I've had a change of plans and will no longer use the Emerald ECU and will instead use an unlocked MBE so this is something I'll need to address. I was under the impression from the factory that the stock pump can be run full time, so perhaps this is simply a setting in the software if the relay is not removed? Speaking of the ECU, as I dug into figuring out how to splice in the loom given it duplicates parts of the chassis harness (e.g. main and fuel relays), I realized this was a much bigger project with a high probability of creating head scratching problems down the road. None of the available wiring diagrams match my car and they are not particularly user-friendly for tracing by an amateur; or at least not compared to what I'm used to using. It seems there is a high probability of unintentionally orphaning a circuit and there will either need to be sufficient carnage to the chassis harness to make reverting to stock a nightmare, or I'll have tons of wires and two big connectors sitting in the engine bay if I try to keep it whole. Bottom line, it will look amateurish, which is not the look I'm going for. Just because I don't know what I'm doing, doesn't mean the car has to broadcast that fact whenever the bonnet is removed. In the interest of my time and what's left of my sanity, I've decided to leave the Emerald for a future upgrade, at which point I'll probably pull the harness and redo something with PDM control. This does mean I lose traction control, knock control, and switchable maps for now, but it also means finishing the rear suspension is no longer on hold due to the reluctor ring delays, and I won't need to deal with working out the sensor brackets and wire routing to the 4 corners. Given my speed, that's 4-6 weeks' time savings right there 10 hours ago, Rosteri said: The AIM installation looks great! Thanks, I'm pleased with it. One surprise is how well the carbon fiber nylon filament complements the carbon dash. There is a grayish sheen to it that is a match for the grayish, shiny portion of the carbon fiber weave. It actually looks intentional from a design standpoint. Below is a screenshot from CAD that shows the parts. The AiM slips into the front of the lighter gray portion, and the darker gray is the back piece which is a little shorter to fit between the dash hoops. The carbon fiber dash is then sandwiched between the two. I know you do 3D printing. if you are interested in the source files, just let me know. -John 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sf4018 Posted December 31, 2022 Share Posted December 31, 2022 1 hour ago, JohnCh said: @sf4018, are you saying that without the pump control relay, the pump is fed by a constant 12v+ feed and runs even with the key off? These are the prerequisites for the pump to run: 1. Master switch on 2. Key in position 2. 3. Immobilizer unit sees the fob 4. Inertia switch ok. At that point the pump control unit is powered up. The unit runs the pump when: - Initial power up it runs for 1 second to charge the system. - Sends a pulse to the pump on each rising edge signal received from the ECU output. It does not stay on if the ECU output stays on . So I modified the pump control relay harness to take out the unit completely and run the power and ground from the clear/white connector directly to the pump (the large green/yellow and black wires). The issue with this is the pump runs even when the engine is not, which is a battery drain issue and somewhat of a safety issue (e.g. if the fuel line breaks it'll keep pouring gas instead of cutting out). I guess a solution could be to find an alternate unit to the H8QTB so it just runs when commanded by the ECU Engine Running signal. May not exist, dunno, documentation is scarce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Croc Posted December 31, 2022 Share Posted December 31, 2022 18 hours ago, JohnCh said: I plan to leave it as-is for now, but prior to gluing it in place, I may remove the display and switch gear then tackle it again with a more aggressive polishing compound. If anyone has experience here, I'd love the advice. What about a professional doing some layers of clear coat and then a buff to bring out the shine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Croc Posted December 31, 2022 Share Posted December 31, 2022 18 hours ago, JohnCh said: Do you have enough room between wheel and dash for fingers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnCh Posted December 31, 2022 Author Share Posted December 31, 2022 Thanks, that mostly makes sense to me, but I'm getting hung up on this comment: 33 minutes ago, sf4018 said: The issue with this is the pump runs even when the engine is not, which is a battery drain issue Tracing wires, it appears the YG wire is controlled by the fuel pump relay which is triggered based on a switched feed. Assuming that's still the case with your rewire, then it seems a rare occurrence when the key is turned but the engine is not running for more than a few seconds unless there is a problem: i.e. the safety issue you mention. I just want to make sure I'm not missing something. @Croc I hadn't thought about a clear coat and professional refinish. Definitely something to consider. Can any Seattle-area members recommend a place on the Eastside for this? As for finger clearance, the wheel position in that photo has tons of clearance, however, it does reflect the positioning based on the 1" spacer I plan to add between wheel and hub. Thanks, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnCh Posted December 31, 2022 Author Share Posted December 31, 2022 I worked a little more this morning on clearancing the nosecone cutouts for the front lower wishbone bolt heads, then attempted a temporary radiator install so I can begin working on cold air intake packaging. To my surprise, the radiator brackets are not bent so the two mounting planes are 90 degrees apart (photo 2). This seems like it will put some additional stress on the radiator when the bobbins are torqued (photo 3). Is this normal or should the front of the brackets be parallel to the radiator? Thanks, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MV8 Posted January 1, 2023 Share Posted January 1, 2023 That's not good but easily corrected. The holes should align perfectly. Looks like it may have been tweaked during shipping. It will bend easily. Fully torque the chassis fasteners. Bump the brkts after the 45deg bend with a 2x4x12 so the distance between the upper holes matches the radiator fastener holes. If you go too far, bump or pry with a 2x4 the other way. You can slot the end of the 2x4 (with the grain using a circular saw) the depth of the straight flange to use as a lever. Once the distance is correct, lay the 2x4x12" against the swaybar behind the rad brkt fully bolted to the chassis. Bump the front edge with another piece of 2x4 as a "slapper" to bring it parallel to the 2x4x12. Blows are like casting a fishing rod versus swinging a bat. Multiple light blows are better than one heavy blow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MV8 Posted January 1, 2023 Share Posted January 1, 2023 16 hours ago, Croc said: What about a professional doing some layers of clear coat and then a buff to bring out the shine? To remove the oxidation, I'd try a Q tip and some fingernail polish remover (acetone) on the bezel but not the lens. A mist of aerosol rustoleum uv clear in flat, satin, semi-gloss, or gloss should work fine and no buff. Just enough to slow the fade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MV8 Posted January 1, 2023 Share Posted January 1, 2023 (edited) On 12/31/2022 at 12:38 PM, sf4018 said: The issue with this is the pump runs even when the engine is not, which is a battery drain issue and somewhat of a safety issue (e.g. if the fuel line breaks it'll keep pouring gas instead of cutting out). I guess a solution could be to find an alternate unit to the H8QTB so it just runs when commanded by the ECU Engine Running signal. May not exist, dunno, documentation is scarce. Use an oil pressure switch in series with the pump relay control wire (positive or negative doesn't matter). This is how 80-90 gm efi pumps are controlled along with the ecu. oil pressure drops and the pump stops. I think it is about 4psi of oil pressure for the pump to operate using the gm switch but there are others. Edited January 2, 2023 by MV8 Parallel, not series since the ecu and oil pressure must act independently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnCh Posted January 5, 2023 Author Share Posted January 5, 2023 A few quick updates. After confirming with Bruce Beachman that something was amiss with the radiator brackets and not the chassis tabs to which they attach, I clamped the brackets to the bench and tightened the angle to 90 degrees. Before doing so, I checked the angle of the two bends that should combine to form the 90-degree angle to see if one of those was out. It appears they were both off by about 3 degrees which together made the big difference. At least the person who makes these was consistent with his errors With that locating the radiator correctly, there is still some minor interference between the bottom corners of the grill covering the 620 intercooler scoop and the top of the radiator. Given the grill is metal, this seems like a potential wear point for the aluminum radiator. Before attempting to lower the radiator a few mm or file down the grill, I might just put a piece of foam rubber between the two and monitor it for wear. If it's not an issue, then leave it. If the interference is destroying the foam rubber, then correct it. A couple of missing fittings arrived which allowed completion of the in-tank pump assembly sans fuel sender followed by a test fit with the Hydramat in the tank. Everything seems to fit just fine. Rivnuts were used to mount the FPR/Damper to the pedal box access panel. The return hose is fitted, but I'm waiting on plumbing the line from the fuel rail until another 90-degree fitting arrives. This photo is somewhat build-related since I came across this car while running an errand to pick up a part. Umm….. -John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MV8 Posted January 6, 2023 Share Posted January 6, 2023 Interesting addition to the fleet John. You must be very proud. I kid, I kid! Is joke! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnCh Posted January 6, 2023 Author Share Posted January 6, 2023 I'm not too proud to admit having a little exhaust envy upon seeing the car. -John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panamericano Posted January 6, 2023 Share Posted January 6, 2023 Looks like it's running a bit rich. Maybe "rolling coal"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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