M79 TAB

[slowdude]

And back to it.

 

Noticed I'm running super rich and don't have a lambda / wideband O2 sensor. Also noticed a frayed and disconnected vacuum line off the EGR which connected to the fuel pressure relay. Trimmed the line and re attached it to the EGR (just to provide a terminus for the vacuum line as I don't have a cap). Haven't driven it since fixing this vacuum leak.

 

In the meantime, I have gone through the EU2 K series loom as I noticed I have an open 4 pin connector for a wide band / lambda. I am on a powerspeed 4 into 1 exhaust, so I will have to get a bung installed on the exhaust. Hoping that @NSXguy's friend is available.

 

The goal is to get the stock ecu recognizing a 4 pin lambda, so that in turn, I can get it to close the loop and adjust the over fuelling. I'm not trying to wash the rings on the new engine.

Once I've determined it's working on the rover MEMS 1.6 that I have, I will be one step closer to installing the emerald ECU (need to check timing etc etc etc).

 

Been going down the rabbit hole on this and will probably do a few posts about the emerald ECU / Rover K series EU2 loom and lambda sensor setup etc.

 

I'm glad I caught this with only 1500 or so miles on the engine post rebuild, otherwise it could be way worse.

 

 

Pic attached of the open lambda loom / harness connector, along with link from Revilla on blatchat who was able to help me, along with lambdasensor.co.uk

 

Harness / Loom diagram.

[MV8]

No experience with these engines or ecus, but what makes you think this is a wideband and not just a four wire hego?

I suggest fitting a replacement o2 sensor for this ecu. lambda and wideband are not compatible/interchangeable for wiring or sensor output without software calibration.

I don't know why a fuel pressure relay would have a vacuum port but the evap cannister purge does.

I don't see electronic egr vacuum control function on this ecu diagram.

This is very confusing.

I would expect to see a vacuum hose from the intake manifold to a fuel pressure regulator to reduce pressure (and richness) at idle and part throttle, and generally a fuel pressure of around 40 psi at idle.

 

Edited May 5 by MV8

[Vovchandr]

In my experience all the widebands I've seen are 6 pin.

 

With that said if you have a downstream o2 sensor you can just pull it out and plug the wideband into that bung without having to do any welding. I've done that for a while.

 

 

[slowdude]

23 minutes ago, MV8 said:

No experience with these engines or ecus, but what makes you think this is a wideband and not just a four wire hego?

I suggest fitting a replacement o2 sensor for this ecu. lambda and wideband are not compatible/interchangeable for wiring or sensor output without software calibration.

I don't know why a fuel pressure relay would have a vacuum port but the evap cannister purge does.

I don't see electronic egr vacuum control function on this ecu diagram.

This is very confusing.

I would expect to see a vacuum hose from the intake manifold to a fuel pressure regulator to reduce pressure (and richness) at idle and part throttle, and generally a fuel pressure of around 40 psi at idle.

 

Evap canister purge is that C152 in the diagram? I think that's where I reconnected the vacuum line. Vacuum line has a T, back end goes somewhere into car, other side of T goes to fuel pressure regulator and the bottom of the T was down and frayed, looked like it went next to the evap so I plugged it in. Should stop vacuum leak right?

 

Looking into OEM lambda for the stock ecu, yes.

 

17 minutes ago, Vovchandr said:

In my experience all the widebands I've seen are 6 pin.

 

With that said if you have a downstream o2 sensor you can just pull it out and plug the wideband into that bung without having to do any welding. I've done that for a while.

 

 

This will probably be the move, there are a few 4 wire wideband kits from emerald that I can wire in when I setup the new ECU.

[MV8]

15 hours ago, slowdude said:

Evap canister purge is that C152 in the diagram? I think that's where I reconnected the vacuum line. Vacuum line has a T, back end goes somewhere into car, other side of T goes to fuel pressure regulator and the bottom of the T was down and frayed, looked like it went next to the evap so I plugged it in. Should stop vacuum leak right?

 

Looking into OEM lambda for the stock ecu, yes.

 

This will probably be the move, there are a few 4 wire wideband kits from emerald that I can wire in when I setup the new ECU.

C152 is the evap control solenoid. Nothing but the evap cannister and the intake manifold source should be connected to that. There should not be a tee. Pictures at a distance of two feet would help me to understand. Plugging vacuum leaks is helpful if it doesn't cause other problems. A small bolt can plug a vacuum hose to act as a cap.

[slowdude]

25 minutes ago, MV8 said:

C152 is the evap control solenoid. Nothing but the evap cannister and the intake manifold source should be connected to that. There should not be a tee. Pictures at a distance of two feet would help me to understand. Plugging vacuum leaks is helpful if it doesn't cause other problems. A small bolt can plug a vacuum hose to act as a cap.

I will grab a photo tonight when I get home from work. Appreciate the help.

 

C164 is where I think the O2 will plug in.

[slowdude]

Further down the rabbit hole. Took alternator off to remove broken oil pressure sensor. Converted to mechanical gauge.

 

Went to hook up battery terminals and accidentally shorted the positive terminal to the metal valve cover. Got a spark. Pulled battery and went to store to check, battery is fine.

 

Went to turn on the car and only cylinders 2&4 were firing.

 

Put multimeter to ignition coil. Primary coil is at 0.9, should be between 0.8 and 1. Secondary coil is at 4600, should be minimum 8000 for this coil. I must have zapped something and it hurt the coil.

 

New plugs, leads, rotor arm and coil on the way for $80. Can't beat the prices at least.

 

If coil doesn't fix it, ecu may be dying. Definitely time to get the lambda sensor in (coming next week), to setup new ecu. It just keeps going.

[slowdude]

Coil it was. Car started right up. New plugs/rotor arm/coil and we are back in business. Waiting for my wire and exhaust bung to come in this weekend. Hope to have exhaust drilled for O2 sensor, and sensor wires lengthened to route through the car. O2 / lambda should help with running rich and provide a closed loop.

[slowdude]

Update / I think closure on this thread. Car is back together with O2 sensor in, and took it for a drive. Car was driving fine and not running rich. I think I've done about everything I can do except for the noisy flywheel/clutch which is apparently a common item for these.

 

I've done just about everything I could, that the previous 8 owners have not, plus did some upgrades for reliability. At some point I'll do the front bushings and suspension, but for now, everything is in order to enjoy the car.

[CBuff]

Congrats @slowdude  a couple more weeks and we can put it to the test when my car arrives local. You can reach me how to drive it. 

[slowdude]

1 hour ago, CBuff said:

Congrats @slowdude  a couple more weeks and we can put it to the test when my car arrives local. You can reach me how to drive it. 

You drove it with no problem before. I think we need another greater NYC tri-state christening. I'd be down for a hawks nest meetup..

[Vovchandr]

Make the dreams of these guys come true 6 years later..

 

[CBuff]

I think I know a few owners that are willing to put our cars right there (me included)!

[slowdude]

Update for the non northeast 7s group chat members / rolling diary of work done to the car. Absolutely massive thanks to Des for showing up and pulling an engine, doing the clutch and flywheel, then reinstalling the engine in 4.5 hours.

 

Replaced clutch (helix), clutch cover, flywheel (lightened, half the weight of the stock), CRB and spigot bearing.

 

While the car was out, replaced a water rail temperature sensor. Wrapped exhaust header, wire rushed some cooling system pieces.

 

Replaced intake manifold gasket.

 

Need to adjust the ECU to recognize the new crank trigger, fill and bleed cooling system, and get exhaust bung welded for wideband. Adjust the clutch and then it's break in the clutch.

 

I think I figured out my rattle. CRB had significant side to side movement, causing the clutch fork to rattle side to side, along with forward and back. Hopefully the new CRB will quiet down this clutch fork play. 

 

Small rear main seal leak that hasn't been affecting the car, so left as is.

 

Looking forward to bedding the car in before the Sept track day.

Edited August 3 by slowdude

[CBuff]

Men at work

[slowdude]

Got it back together, got ecu updated for new flywheel pattern. Banging my head on the wall with this no start issue. I can't see anything unplugged, clutch has been backed off at the box so it's not super tight and putting pressure. Put a mark on the crank, starter is engaging with flywheel and turning engine.

 

@MV8 any thoughts? What's going on in that noggin of yours? I noticed I had some super frayed starter wires, so re crimped them thinking I was getting voltage drop, but Still making this ZZZ noise. Checked relays. MFRU isnt triggered since the fuel pump is priming. ECU is registering crank position sensor on new flywheel, plugs seem to have fuel (smelled it on plugs when i pulled), coil/rotor arm/plugs are new. Still digging but banging my head against the wall.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ashyers]

Charlie,

From what I hear in the videos it sounds like the timing is way off. It sounds like it's over advanced.

 

Can you check the base timing with a light? It would be useful to see if that's correct, especially after the new ECU and Crank Sensor change.

 

Andy

[slowdude]

7 hours ago, ashyers said:

Charlie,

From what I hear in the videos it sounds like the timing is way off. It sounds like it's over advanced.

 

Can you check the base timing with a light? It would be useful to see if that's correct, especially after the new ECU and Crank Sensor change.

 

Andy

Appreciate this, I'll pick one up and double check!

[MV8]

In addition to Andy's recommendations, I would recheck the firing order on the coil and if that is ok, pull all the plugs, then rotated the crank a couple turns, to see if any liquid comes pouring out of a plug hole.

I'm not sure why a 90's ecu would need to be updated when fitting an identical sensor but I don't know much at all about the Rover ecu. What steps did you take to update the ecu? Did you attempt to start with the new sensor and the old ecu cal? Can you fall back to the last cal?

[slowdude]

49 minutes ago, MV8 said:

In addition to Andy's recommendations, I would recheck the firing order on the coil and if that is ok, pull all the plugs, then rotated the crank a couple turns, to see if any liquid comes pouring out of a plug hole.

I'm not sure why a 90's ecu would need to be updated when fitting an identical sensor but I don't know much at all about the Rover ecu. What steps did you take to update the ecu? Did you attempt to start with the new sensor and the old ecu cal? Can you fall back to the last cal?

 

I was able to get my emerald ECU up and running.

 

Batched ignition of cylinders 2&4 etc.

 

Spark is done through a coil to a rotor arm off intake cam. ECU pulses the coil to fire.

 

I couldn't see where I would have affected the timing but I will check it. This starter noise is new to me and having checked electricals, not sure where to check next so timing makes sense. I'll pull plugs again and rotate engine to see what I can get. I was cranking it with the plugs out to read the CPS with the flywheel and didn't have anything come out that I could see.