JohnCh Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 Let me start by saying I'm more than a little annoyed that I lost $250 in Vegas because I bet this thread would have died a natural death a 1/2 page ago. I am, however, confident I will win my bet that @Bruce K and @Vovchandr will never agree on this topic. Given it's now down to just the two of you, perhaps it's time to consider taking this to PM? Unless, of course, someone here has money on this back and forth consuming another page. I'd hate my suggestion to cost anyone their chance to win big. Oh, and my attorney wanted me to mention that in no way should my post be misconstrued as an attempt to limit free speech. Hopefully that covers me.... -John 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce K Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 (edited) Funny! And sorry for your loss. I will have nothing more to share with my ex-friend Vovchandr until he apologizes, which is a likely occurrence on any day the thermometer hits zero in Hell. I was an intercollegiate debater for four college years - never lost to a single Ivy League school - and thus have been trained to recognize and abhor attacks ad hominem as the very opposite of informed, classically liberal dialectic. That issue is the reason I persisted with my replies. But I think you could bet good money again that this thread does not go a full 1.5 pages, unless Vovchandr likes talking to himself! Edited January 24 by Bruce K correction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnCh Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 Well so much for taking my hint… 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vovchandr Posted January 24 Author Share Posted January 24 (edited) I've dealt with people like Bruce for decades now and my only expectations is entertainment and their public embarrassment via their hypocrisy, which I got. Nuance isn't their strong point. Thanks for playing. Edited January 24 by Vovchandr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Croc Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 12 hours ago, Bruce K said: Thank you, Croc, for recognizing that I had no intention to insult you or anyone else. I should not have chosen a politician or person of controversy as basis for my simile. Thumbs up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anduril3019 Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 5 hours ago, barbox said: Look into the Avon ZZS. I’ve heard it’s the Donald Trump of Se7en tires. Kind of a "tired" reference at this point. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce K Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 14 hours ago, Cueball1 said: Maybe a return to what we all have in common, a love for 7s and helping others is what's needed here? 😉 Needing track wheels and tires for my beautiful Birkin. I'm thinking 15" as there's a wider variety of both wheels and tires available. Thinking 7" and 195 in front. 9" and 225 in the rear. Seems to be a popular stagger of sizes. Open to suggestions if you think differently! For tires, communication, feel and reasonable durability are priorities, not needing the fastest possible tire. Any suggestions? There's so many more manufacturers and models than when i was doing a lot track days 10-15 years ago. You should always check the "Parts for Sale" thread on this forum. Regarding tires, Avon's have been mounted on a number of my Sevens. To me, Avon's provide the best performance, durability and feedback in these lightweight Sevens - the best overall package. For pure track tires, however, Hoosiers are the best IMO. However, this thread deals with civil discussion, and how to conduct it if discussion descends into argument. We are going to cost John money if we lard it up with general Sevens discussion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cueball1 Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 Thanks Bruce. As I was involved in the initial discord I was simply hoping to lighten the mood. Will look into avons! Wheel and tire sizes seem correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce K Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 2 minutes ago, Cueball1 said: Thanks Bruce. As I was involved in the initial discord I was simply hoping to lighten the mood. Will look into avons! Wheel and tire sizes seem correct? Yes, I recall your endorsement of Vovchandr's remarks. I want you in particular to understand that I am happy to change the reference in my simile regarding Croc. I intended only a compliment. That matters, because it should moderate the response. When Vovchandr then compared me (and by extension, Trump) to Saddam Hussein and and serial child molester, that was a pubescent attempt to hurt and injure - an attack ad hominem - and should never be part of discussions between civil people. Even if I was slow on the uptake regarding the unsuitability of my comparison, I was always a gentleman, and responses should not have devolved into poisonous namecalling. This last point is especially true because we are all friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnCh Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 17 hours ago, Bruce K said: I was an intercollegiate debater for four college years - never lost to a single Ivy League school I acknowledge you are a master debater, but isn't a debate time bound and isn't repeating the same argument numerous times considered argumentum ad nauseam, and something to avoid? I think we are all aware of your position and the positions of others who have responded in both threads. Perhaps it's time to ring the bell on this and move on. -John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barbox Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 I hope you don't have another $250 riding on us not making it to page 3, cause it seems the hypocrisy and bad faith arguments are never-ending. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IamScotticus Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 12 hours ago, barbox said: Look into the Avon ZZS. I’ve heard it’s the Donald Trump of Se7en tires. How many times can those tires be re-treaded? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee break Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 Time to stick a fork in this discussion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cueball1 Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 6 hours ago, Bruce K said: Yes, I recall your endorsement of Vovchandr's remarks. I don't believe I said anything once things turned personal. I recall only posting my original comment which was not meant to be an attack or personal. I tried to simply point out a certain person is a controversial figure and much hated by many. I'm apologize if i did anything that may have been construed as a personal attack or endorsing such attacks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce K Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 2 hours ago, Cueball1 said: I don't believe I said anything once things turned personal. I recall only posting my original comment which was not meant to be an attack or personal. I tried to simply point out a certain person is a controversial figure and much hated by many. I'm apologize if i did anything that may have been construed as a personal attack or endorsing such attacks! Vovchandr was the original propagator of the attacks ad hominem. Your placating words are much appreciated, however, and betray you as a man of peace and reason. I repeat that I never intended to insult anyone with my comparison. It was an accident which I shall not repeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce K Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 3 hours ago, coffee break said: Time to stick a fork in this discussion. I apologize, but my understanding is that this entire thread is about unappreciated compliments, so those still interested should feel welcome to stay on topic. Meaning no insult, I suggest that if the subject bores you, you can ignore this conversation. In the meantime, all (or at least most) of the participants are learning better ways to deal with each other, certainly a valid and important endeavor. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce K Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 (edited) 8 hours ago, barbox said: I hope you don't have another $250 riding on us not making it to page 3, cause it seems the hypocrisy and bad faith arguments are never-ending. I agree with your betting advice, but disagree with your conclusion. If you read all the posts carefully, it becomes apparent that the participants are adult men seeking to prevent future mistakes in communication (myself included). IMO that is a lofty and worthwhile goal. More and more, I think it can be the purpose of this thread whenever arguments on this site become imbued with anger. John, perhaps a name change to "Arguments to be Settled" or something similar? Edited January 25 by Bruce K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barbox Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 11 hours ago, Bruce K said: If you read all the posts carefully, it becomes apparent that the participants are adult men seeking to prevent future mistakes in communication (myself included). IMO that is a lofty and worthwhile goal. Now that I can agree with. And I'll say, for my part, if any of my statements were construed as personal attacks, I apologize. I intended to criticize your words, not your character. If anything came off as going over that line, I'd appreciate a PM pointing to where I crossed that line, as it would help me become a better communicator. But, I do think this most recent statement of yours seems to run counter to your previous accusations of "grade-school putdowns" and "poisonous namecalling". I've reread both threads a couple times, and couldn't find anything I would classify as namecalling. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vovchandr Posted January 25 Author Share Posted January 25 44 minutes ago, barbox said: Now that I can agree with. And I'll say, for my part, if any of my statements were construed as personal attacks, I apologize. I intended to criticize your words, not your character. If anything came off as going over that line, I'd appreciate a PM pointing to where I crossed that line, as it would help me become a better communicator. But, I do think this most recent statement of yours seems to run counter to your previous accusations of "grade-school putdowns" and "poisonous namecalling". I've reread both threads a couple times, and couldn't find anything I would classify as namecalling. That is because for 3 pages now he's been stating that my well intented compliment is an attack on him, and is playing a victim to a ... Compliment. Hence the "unappreciated compliment" thread title. In the meantime I'm recovering from a hangover for playing a drinking game and taking a shot every time I read something that is pretentious in this thread. Still not sure how my compliment to him was by extension one to Trump? Do we have Mr Trump himself on the forum or do we just like putting words in other people's mouth while in the meantime not being accountable to our own? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce K Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 (edited) 5 hours ago, barbox said: Now that I can agree with. And I'll say, for my part, if any of my statements were construed as personal attacks, I apologize. I intended to criticize your words, not your character. If anything came off as going over that line, I'd appreciate a PM pointing to where I crossed that line, as it would help me become a better communicator. But, I do think this most recent statement of yours seems to run counter to your previous accusations of "grade-school putdowns" and "poisonous namecalling". I've reread both threads a couple times, and couldn't find anything I would classify as namecalling. @barbox - Everyone contributing to this discussion has long moved past the issue of the unwelcome compliment, no form of which will I ever tender again. To me, the remaining important issue is HOW we disagree. I obviously intended a compliment, and my motivations were benign. In response, Vovchandr directed the following remarks to me, which should be made part of this thread (the thread began a posting or two later): "2) To me you're totally a mix of Saddam Hussein & Earl Brian Bradley and I mean that in the most complementary way possible. I expect you to appreciate this complementary comparison. A "thank you, I'm honored" will do." That Bradley character is a heinous serial child abuser, and Hussien killed millions! By inference, this grievous insult is also directed toward Trump. Language like this is completely and absurdly asymmetric to my actions on this site. Unless applied to characters like Hitler or Stalin, such language has no basis in fact and constitutes an attack ad hominem. Unlike the progress made elsewhere on this thread, name-calling rarely settles issues, and usually just deepens enmities. Rather than simply withdrawing the unseemly metaphor, Vovchandr continues to call me names including "pretentious" (thread or two above) and thin-skinned. People cannot reconcile while insulting one another like this. Everyone else on this thread has participated in a valuable learning process, including you and I, but the work is not yet complete. Edited January 25 by Bruce K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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