About to Purchase First 7 and Need Advice!

[Lotusfan]

@Davemk1You make a fair point, but I actually think that a test drive really isn’t a fair test. All of what you are saying about being small and vulnerable is of course true, but you definitely get used to it and you hopefully develop a defensive driving attitude. Roads and situations that are at first daunting, you quickly forget about as you automatically know what to do to avoid being in people’s blind spots and stuck in traffic etc.
The fun of the purely mechanical and completely connected with the car and road experience, even on short drives, are a pretty good way to wipe out the frustrations of daily life in my opinion. There is only so much time to clear bucket list items and I’d say it's better to say “tried it and it wasn’t for me” than regret not having even given it a go. 
@Randy Flowers, take this however you choose, but I say “go for it.”

Edited May 12 by Lotusfan

[theDreamer]

So lots of good advice here even if some of it seems contradictory.

Let me tell a little story. A long-time friend and I used to road ride motorcycles. We both built and enjoyed riding our Yamaha RD 350 café racers. I was racing vintage GP bikes and then moved into Amateur Production Classes. After several years my friend decides to get into racing too. He bought a used TZ250 GP bike and did a super ground up rebuild. It was better and faster than when it was new. He did the race school and loved it. He went to open practice days and couldn’t get enough. Then came his first race weekend and his first heat race. He pulled into pit lane after the first lap. I ran over to him expecting he’d fouled a plug or worse. Instead I found him sitting on the bike shaking. When he finally was able to talk he said he couldn’t do it. Building the bike and running around the track at speed was fun. Racing, dicing inches apart from the next guy was something he was not prepared for. It scared him sh*tless!

Nobody knows how they will react to a given situation until they find themselves in that situation. All I can add is; ‘Tis better to have loved and lost than to have never loved at all. (Alfred Lord Tennyson)

In my case, I’m 70 and have had my first Caterham Seven all of three weeks now. I’ve had sports cars like a Lotus Europa Twin Cam Special so I’m used to very small cars. I’ve been riding motorcycles for over 50 years so I’m used to being vulnerable in traffic. I’ve raced karts, cars (both tin tops and open wheeled formula cars) and motorcycles both on and off road. I had driven lots of sevens over the years but never owned one until now. It’s not what I remember it being or what I was expecting. But now old, over weight, out of shape and in general poor health I’m glad I went for it. I’ll keep this car as long as I can.

As to size, I’m sure you have seen comparisons before but here’s my car beside a Land Rover 4x4. Photo was taken this past Saturday at a British car show. And yes, that is the actual size. The photo has not not been photo shopped or altered in any way.

Oh, did I mention that a guy in a Jeep Cherokee ran a red light and literally drove over the front of my Europa? I didn’t see him until a split second before because I couldn’t see over the front fender of the Chevelle station wagon that was beside me.

Edited May 13 by theDreamer

[slowdude]

58 minutes ago, theDreamer said:

So lots of good advice here even if some of it seems contradictory.

Let me tell a little story. A long-time friend and I used to road ride motorcycles. We both built and enjoyed riding our Yamaha RD 350 café racers. I was racing vintage GP bikes and then moved into Amateur Production Classes. After several years my friend decides to get into racing too. He bought a used TZ250 GP bike and did a super ground up rebuild. It was better and faster than when it was new. He did the race school and loved it. He went to open practice days and couldn’t get enough. Then came his first race weekend and his first heat race. He pulled into pit lane after the first lap. I ran over to him expecting he’d fouled a plug or worse. Instead I found him sitting on the bike shaking. When he finally was able to talk he said he couldn’t do it. Building the bike and running around the track at speed was fun. Racing, dicing inches apart from the next guy was something he was not prepared for. It scared him sh*tless!

Nobody knows how they will react to a given situation until they find themselves in that situation. All I can add is; ‘Tis better to have loved and lost than to have never loved at all. (Alfred Lord Tennyson)

In my case, I’m 70 and have had my first Caterham Seven all of three weeks now. I’ve had sports cars like a Lotus Europa Twin Cam Special so I’m used to very small cars. I’ve been riding motorcycles for over 50 years so I’m used to being vulnerable in traffic. I’ve raced karts, cars (both tin tops and open wheeled formula cars) and motorcycles both on and off road. I had driven lots of sevens over the years but never owned one until now. It’s not what I remember it being or what I was expecting. But now old, over weight, out of shape and in general poor health I’m glad I went for it. I’ll keep this car as long as I can.

As to size, I’m sure you have seen comparisons before but here’s my car beside a Land Rover 4x4. Photo was taken this past Saturday at a British car show. And yes, that is the actual size. The photo has not not been photo shopped or altered in any way.

Oh, did I mention that a guy in a Jeep Cherokee ran a red light and literally drove over the front of my Europa? I didn’t see him until a split second before because I couldn’t see over the front fender of the Chevelle station wagon that was beside me.

Sheeeeeeesh old 250/350 two stroke street bikes are a level of fast many cannot comprehend if they haven't ridden a two stroke. Hats off to you - those pull like crazy. A few years ago I took an HP4 Race around the track and that was an eye opener as far as the term "fast" is considered. Nothing like those old 2 strokes.

 

Regarding insurance, Croc is the oracle. My Hagerty is 1200$ a year but I am registered as a passenger car. No mileage limit.

 

As others have said, you're over thinking the car. It has 3 pedals and goes where you want it to. I'd worry less about figuring it out and more about visibility / safety if you're thinking this way. It's like riding a motorcycle- no one will see you.

 

Reliability wise, the cars will always have something going on. I just put a mechanical oil pressure gauge in and somehow I've got low power to my ignition coil. You'll need a decent tool kit and some specialist stuff (multimeter) etc. The car is simple to work on, but you'll always have something.

 

Value wise, no vehicle is an investment. If you're worried about 50k cash out of your pocket, you will not enjoy driving the car. As others have said value falls the older they get. I'm under 20k for mine and feel OK when it is down for a bit and not running. Will you feel the same about a 50k car? I'm not trying to scare you but your trepidation gives me concern - you may be similar to me, and overly analytical, but realize that there will always be something going on. It's part of the ownership experience, and I'm learning a lot about how to diagnose the car, plus there is a lot of support on the forums.

 

Carbed engines are significantly easier to work on than EFI. I've worked on carbed motorcycles before and it was a significantly simpler experience than EFI, don't assume modern = better. It just means more things to get juggled and potentially stop working.

[speedwagon]

"If it feels good, do it" .  Age is of little consequence, stay within your budget. Anyone can learn all they need to take care of a car in 3 years max if they are willing to work. As far as carbs, vs FI- the only thing fi can do better is adjust mixture for air density change ( I ran a single 2'' su on a draw through turbo at pike's peak and it ran clean from 5k to 14k and gave 300hp from 164ci for a very short time. Personally I find computer controlled fi to be easier to work on and more reliable (try to tune a weber 48). As for 2 vs 4 stroke, the 2 stroke hits twice as often and is simpler, more fowl smelling and harder on plugs, but produces about 1 1/2 the power for size and weight, while lasting half as long.  I have 2ea 7ish cars with 2 stroke turbocharged rotaries and love them but the day is coming when they will be obsolete.   The previous is opinion only.  and lastly-- if you have or can get lots of sheckles just find a good maintenance shop and pretend your name is penske.    john canning  82 and still partly functional.

[Vovchandr]

11 hours ago, theDreamer said:

So lots of good advice here even if some of it seems contradictory.

Let me tell a little story. A long-time friend and I used to road ride motorcycles. We both built and enjoyed riding our Yamaha RD 350 café racers. I was racing vintage GP bikes and then moved into Amateur Production Classes. After several years my friend decides to get into racing too. He bought a used TZ250 GP bike and did a super ground up rebuild. It was better and faster than when it was new. He did the race school and loved it. He went to open practice days and couldn’t get enough. Then came his first race weekend and his first heat race. He pulled into pit lane after the first lap. I ran over to him expecting he’d fouled a plug or worse. Instead I found him sitting on the bike shaking. When he finally was able to talk he said he couldn’t do it. Building the bike and running around the track at speed was fun. Racing, dicing inches apart from the next guy was something he was not prepared for. It scared him sh*tless!

Nobody knows how they will react to a given situation until they find themselves in that situation. All I can add is; ‘Tis better to have loved and lost than to have never loved at all. (Alfred Lord Tennyson)

In my case, I’m 70 and have had my first Caterham Seven all of three weeks now. I’ve had sports cars like a Lotus Europa Twin Cam Special so I’m used to very small cars. I’ve been riding motorcycles for over 50 years so I’m used to being vulnerable in traffic. I’ve raced karts, cars (both tin tops and open wheeled formula cars) and motorcycles both on and off road. I had driven lots of sevens over the years but never owned one until now. It’s not what I remember it being or what I was expecting. But now old, over weight, out of shape and in general poor health I’m glad I went for it. I’ll keep this car as long as I can.

As to size, I’m sure you have seen comparisons before but here’s my car beside a Land Rover 4x4. Photo was taken this past Saturday at a British car show. And yes, that is the actual size. The photo has not not been photo shopped or altered in any way.

Oh, did I mention that a guy in a Jeep Cherokee ran a red light and literally drove over the front of my Europa? I didn’t see him until a split second before because I couldn’t see over the front fender of the Chevelle station wagon that was beside me.

 

Fun fact. Depending on which year US Caterham you have and every UK model have the orange round blinkers sourced from the UK defender above.

 

For some reason early US ones used a slightly different model that's smaller with a chrome ring.

[Jesse D]

Fun to read all of us justifying our toy. I bought mine (off the classifieds here) about ten years ago and I have no interest in selling and it was one of the best things I did in my life. My oldest grandson (I'm 74) is close to his driver's license and then I'm looking forward to autocross  with him. My Caterham is a 1993 and the problems I've had are minimal and the joy maximal. Get it.

 

[Vovchandr]

14 minutes ago, Jesse D said:

Fun to read all of us justifying our toy. I bought mine (off the classifieds here) about ten years ago and I have no interest in selling and it was one of the best things I did in my life. My oldest grandson (I'm 74) is close to his driver's license and then I'm looking forward to autocross  with him. My Caterham is a 1993 and the problems I've had are minimal and the joy maximal. Get it.

 

 

Oh that's another fun topic. How many of us have a 7 as an "interim" car vs forever car.

 

I have zero plans selling mine ever unless I'm forced to do so by circumstances. It's a forever car as far as I'm concerned. I think many of us will echo this. Is that enough of a selling point?

[slowdude]

31 minutes ago, Vovchandr said:

 

Oh that's another fun topic. How many of us have a 7 as an "interim" car vs forever car.

 

I have zero plans selling mine ever unless I'm forced to do so by circumstances. It's a forever car as far as I'm concerned. I think many of us will echo this. Is that enough of a selling point?

Well said Vlad.

 

The car is so impractical, the purchase tends to be a forever car. I struggle to find another vehicle I look for which does this job better.

[theDreamer]

3 hours ago, Vovchandr said:

 

Fun fact. Depending on which year US Caterham you have and every UK model have the orange round blinkers sourced from the UK defender above.

 

For some reason early US ones used a slightly different model that's smaller with a chrome ring.

Well, as you can see my US car has the more bullet shaped lens with the chrome ring.

When we had our Europa it was always fun going around at car shows picking out what parts came from which cars. Like the Europa’s front bumper is an Anglia’s front bumper turned upside down. And the rear bumper is actually a Ford Cortina’s front bumper. The rear taillight lenses look the same as V12 Jag but the Europa’s has a white segment for the backup lights that the Jag’s don’t. Colin was known for being a parts bin specialist. Why design and contract out manufacturing for stuff that others have already put the time and money into? Smart lad that Colin. Nearn learned his lessons well.

[IamScotticus]

Welcome to the LBC disease

Little British Car

[NeoBear]

On 5/12/2024 at 9:29 AM, Davemk1 said:

I'll throw this out there even though it doesn't address the questions originally asked -

 

If you've never driven a Seven you should drive one before you buy one. I've known more than a few people who have loved the idea of Seven who drove it a few times and then wanted out. The cars leave the driver very exposed and vulnerable and some people don't enjoy that sensation. I had one tell me that they got a ride in a Miata once and they loved that and therefore a Seven will be great. A Miata feels like Lincoln town car compared to a Seven. Your head is at about the height of a semi truck's lug nuts. A Camry next to you at a light will look like an SUV.

 

If it's hot you'll be hot, if cold you'll be cold, if wet...you guessed it...you'll be wet. A drive will leave you dusty and dirty even with side curtains. The wind noise and buffeting are not like anything else out there.

 

I don't want to discourage you from owning a Seven. I think they are offer the most pure driving experience that one can use on a public road. I've owned two and have put about 30,000 miles on them collectively. That said they are not for everyone and there is zero shame in that. If you don't like it, you simply don't like it. But buying one without ever driving one feels risky to me. It will be worth every cent and every minute it takes to travel to see the car and drive it.

 

I hope you end up trying it and loving it...if you don't love it you'll have saved yourself a lot of grief. Good luck to you and enjoy the process.

 

dave

 

This is the most complete summary of what it is like to own a seven I have seen, even with that I still love mine.

[jimmylukeii]

At the risk of repeating nearly everyone, I would trust Josh 100%.  He has been extremely helpful to me when he has zero real financial or other incentive to do so.  He knows his stuff, and if he went through and drove the car, that's enough for me.

 

On the investment discussion, the car is not an investment, but it does belong on a small list of modern cars that you can drive around for years and not lose too much on depreciation.  So not an investment, but a fantastic deal.

 

Go for the plunge.  It is well worth it.  And that is a great paint scheme!

[Randy Flowers]

First of all, thanks for all the great comments and advice, I feel like I just got initiated into the 7 club

 

I have been doing a cram course in owning a Caterham the last week+.  About 2 weeks ago, I had this new idea that with my newfound level of income/savings at 62, I finally had the 'entry fee' of the initial price, and the idea was that i would get a really really nice newer one with the newer engines, Miata box, etc, I would get a helper mechanic that I could pay to do needed repairs and also teach me how to properly do all the routine maintenance, and then with it being a new fairly reliable car from the start and with it getting the care it needed, it would be a relatively reliable car to drive, AND I could then own and drive a SUPER 7 for the rest of my life just for the cost of some depreciation + upkeep + insurance. 

 

So, about two weeks ago i dipped my toe in the water and called the place i knew was the right place to call (I had talked to them years before), Rocky Mountain Caterham.  And guess what car was sitting at the top of their 'available' page when i called?  I had a dual reaction.  OH MY GOD, THAT IS MY CAR was one of them.  And also a big gulp knowing that now i had to quickly figure out if i could navigate thru all the gates that needed to open for this to be something doable. 

 

Well, I have to report that this has been an intense week+ for me since i saw that car, and during that time, gate after gate after gate has swung wide open!  I needed to know that i was getting a really good properly built newer Caterham and trust who i was buying it from.  CHECK.  I needed to know that it would depreciate, but very slowly and i am fine with that level of depreciation, so CHECK.  I needed to know that i would have access to a mechanic that could handle the car and that was willing to train me in taking care of it properly, and i have that fully in place with someone who was already a friend and lives 2 blocks away, so CHECK.  I needed to know that the insurance would work and that i could insure it for full value comp/collision without breaking my bank, and i talked to Hagerty and my 3000 mile per year insurance will cost me about $70 per month, so CHECK. 

 

The whole thing is surreal to me, after all these years i am not only getting a 7, but i am getting THIS 7!  From Rocky Mountain, the EXACT specs that i chose in the Caterham configurator, built by Road & Track (i read the articles) and then gone thru and vetted by Josh and even driven by him for awhile, using the 152hp Sigma engine which is the one i would have chosen if given the choice over the Durotec, and basically brand new.  WOW! 

Realize that this is THE bucket list item of my life, to own a 7.  I thought it would never happen. 

 

I have been emailing with Josh and he is really awesome already, he obviously is doing what he loves for a living, and he said he is willing to help guide us.

 

Josh emailed me and here are some cuts of what he said:

About resale...

 

'I think you got good advice from Croc on valuation and insurance. All Sevens hold their values well but the current generation are holding on exceptionally well, and older ones have actually come up a bit. I'm not sure why this is. Some have suggested that it is because anything analog and ICE powered is going up in value (offset by wear/tear/depreciation). From my view it's a little simpler: there's just so few Sevens available in the US that they always have a buyer, and good Sevens are sought after. You will never not be able to sell your Seven.'

 

About this particular car and the Road & Track build...

 

Build assembly concerns: Sam and Zach did 90% of the actual assembly and took 100% of the responsibility and they did a fantastic job. It was one of the best built kits we have ever seen. Both have pro mechanic stints in their earlier resumes and Sam in particular has a race car / formula car background so they had the correct mindset for putting the kit together properly. They texted almost daily from the day we delivered the kit to them, to the day the kit came back for titling/registration... then Covid lockdown hit the CO DMV and all that stalled out. Hearst Media then shitcanned Road and Track Magazine the same month. It was awful. But that's the backstory why there were no more articles after the first few build episodes. Sam and Zach have been in touch ever since... and in fact one, condition I'm hoping to attach to the sale is that they might get to drive the Seven they built, should they ever be in the same area and able to visit. We had this stipulation in the first sale of the car. It never sat well with us that the builders (and writers!) never got to drive what they built, so the cosmos is still a little unsettled as a result.

 

So, it sure seems like a well built car according to Josh!  I also promised Josh that the people that built the car can come out and drive it if they happen to be near Eugene Oregon, that would be cool

 

As to needing to drive one first and that i might feel too small and exposed, i LOVE small cars, the smaller the better.  That is the feature, not the bug.  I have driven a 7 before for a bit, experienced the wind at speed, the heat from the cockpit, the process of getting in, the feeling that if that SUV hit you sideways that would be REALLY bad.  So, i do have a reference of what to expect, but i have only driven a little bit. 

 

But, it is not the smallness that will bother me, it is the safety.  I will be carrying my autistic daughter in it fairly often, and i am going to be SO CAREFUL when i drive this car, with or without her.  I am even thinking of not going thru big 4 way intersections, and instead turning right, doing a U turn and then turning right again, pain in the butt but fun in a way as well, and also slows you down, but a lot safer.  I will be staying an extra lane away from people, stay out of blind spots for sure, just driving it like a bike safety wise.  When my daughter rides with me, it will always have the side curtain on her side and she will not get in or out without me helping so she never touches that pipe.  I think just being super cautious like that we will be fine, at least mostly as fine as driving the Miata.  I drive the Miata very safely as well, spirited for sure when possible but safe.  I am thinking of getting some sort of side bars for it maybe.

 

I plan on this being a forever car, my other daughter who inherits it will have instructions for how to easily sell it when i am driving 1965 Formula Fords in heaven.

 

For me, this is the literally most iconic and coolest car ever made, it has been in production as long as i have been alive, and now i get to own one.  Wow.  When i get stares from others, it won't at all be some ego trip of 'look at me!', it will be about 'look at this amazing car!', i want to share it with everyone.  But, mostly i want to DRIVE it, i want to feel that rawness of essentially driving a Formula Ford for the road.  Every time i get in it, i will be that kid that watched the Lotus 7s race with my Dad flagging them in the late 60s, now driving my own Lotus 7!

Yall have been a huge part of my decision process, so I appreciate it.  The first thread here of many i imagine.

 

Thanks!

Randy

Edited May 14 by Randy Flowers

[IamScotticus]

Don't be a stranger.  We like pics and stories.  You don't come off a drive without a story.  

A 7 is never boring, is impossible to ignore, and always on the edge of what a 1k pound roller skate can do on a road.

Get ready to be asked about the 7 wherever you go.  And don't stand with your leg close to the fuel filler when pumping fuel.

Edited May 16 by IamScotticus

[Randy Flowers]

UPDATE:

My mechanic friend and I had an hour long video conference with Josh at Rocky Mountain Caterham today and got to go over the car with Josh.  Man, what a beautiful car and in really top condition by all appearances.  Josh really thought highly of how well built and sorted out the car is.  We were impressed for sure.

 

SO...I have committed to buying it and we are now starting the steps to complete the purchase!  I am about to own a 7 after 55 years of wanting to own one!!!  AND, it is THIS one, just Wow.  And, my mechanic friend was very impressed too, and is excited to help guide me in learning how to take care of the car properly, and he lives 2 blocks away. 

I AM ABOUT TO OWN A SEVEN!!!  Been kind of walking on air all afternoon since.  I know yall get it

 

Now, all the baby steps happen and i am in no big rush, we will do this the right way and i will soon enough be able to sit in it and take off down the road with a big grin on my face.  I will have the rest of my life to drive it once we get it here and get it up and running after shipment.

 

Oh, Josh is obviously going to be a very helpful guy to have in our corner along the way.  I told Josh that one of the big reasons i felt good pulling the trigger was that it was being done thru him and that he had personally vetted the car after the R&T build. 

 

This whole last week+ has felt surreal and had lots of synchronicity.  One week ago i decided to start looking for real and to see if my idea of being able to own a 7 the rest of my life for just the cost of small depreciation + upkeep + insurance was realistic or not.  So, I called Rocky Mountain Caterham (first call I made), and Ross answered and he basically sold me that Gulf Blue Caterham on the spot.  I was shocked, it was EXACTLY what I had just spec'ed out using the Caterham Configurator.  The ONLY difference was i didn't have a stripe, just an orange nose ring, but i like the stripe too.  The other difference between the one i spec'ed was the this one had a Sigma 152hp engine, which is the engine spec i would have chosen on the Configurator if it was an option, so even more fantastic.  Only Durotecs were an option, so i chose the 180hp Durotec in my spec, but i wanted the Sigma, so this car even had that.  I first saw that car and was like, THAT IS MY CAR!  It was uncanny.  AND also, Josh confirmed today that it was that day that Rocky Mountain had listed it, so who knows how fast it would have gone to someone else if i had not called right then.  Sometimes things in life just flow in a way that is beyond your own understanding, and this one felt like that sort of thing.  And then, i found the perfect mechanic helper as well, and insurance was actually affordable, and my finances worked with it without messing up a good retirement.  I may work an extra year freelance to pay back some of the cost of this though, but that is a small price to pay for being able to own a 7, especially this 7.   Very thankful/grateful right now

 

Thanks again for yall's help along the week+ of decision making.  I am officially in the 7 community now!  WHOOHOO!!!

 

Randy

Edited May 16 by Randy Flowers

[JohnCh]

Congratulations!  Any idea yet of when you'll be in the driver's seat?

[Randy Flowers]

2 hours ago, JohnCh said:

Congratulations!  Any idea yet of when you'll be in the driver's seat?

 

Not sure exactly, guessing 2-3 weeks before we finalize the paperwork and get it shipped here to Oregon.  Then, we need to get it into running shape after the shipment.  So, probably around the beginning of June, which is the real beginning of the best 7 time in Oregon as well.  We are going to take it slowly, i have the rest of my life to drive it. I waited 55 years, can wait a few more weeks.

Randy

Edited May 16 by Randy Flowers

[JohnCh]

34 minutes ago, Randy Flowers said:

i have the rest of my life to drive it. I waited 55 years, can wait a few more weeks.

 

You clearly don't grasp the criticality of instant gratification   Hopefully, the weather cooperates the week it arrives, and the car meets or exceeds all your expectations.

[theDreamer]

Randy, to quote Jeremy (Stang70Fastback on here) Hooray! ONE OF US! ONE OF US!

[slowdude]

Welcome welcome! Throw that roof on it and drive it in all weather. Fantastic spec and I'm a big fan of that 1.6 sigma. Well bought.