TEM Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 Next issue in the saga. After about a 40 mile run at 50mph, the oil pressure suddenly dropped from about 45 psi to 0. I shut off the engine quickly and coasted to a stop. A long trail of oil followed the car. Oil was everywhere inside of the engine bay from the radiator to the battery tray. There are no ruptured hoses, hole in the block or other obvious signs of failure. I pulled the oil pump and oil filter (new 40 miles ago) and all look good. No debris or any sign of pump, filter, or seal failure. I checked the oil pressure gauge line and engine fitting. No blockages. I changed the oil filter and found that I put the spring on the top of the filter instead of the bottom. Not sure if that has any impact on my issue. I topped up the oil then started the engine for a few seconds - no oil pressure. Car has a remote oil cooler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MV8 Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 (edited) I suspect a hardened, rubber oil cooler hose was moved around in the course of maintenance and cracked. Hoses should be soft. You can fit the "push lock" hose to standard barbs and use clamps. I expect you need 1/2" hose or you can remove the cooler. To confirm, remove the nose and leave it off for now. Clean everything. Top off oil. Run a jumper to the starter solenoid to control the starter. Spin the engine for 5 seconds while observing or remove the oil cooler sandwich to bypass the cooler circuit and look for oil pressure rise on the gauge. If no leaks at all or pressure on the gauge, pull the pump and inspect the gear. I don't know if it has a roll pin or just a press fit to the shaft. It could be you picked up a solid in the pump around the filter that was not sealing, which could lock the pump and break the gear or pin but that doesn't explain the leak. I doubt that is the case and it is just an oil cooler line. You've come a long way with this car. Don't give up now so close to it being useful. Edited August 9 by MV8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave W Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 (edited) If you were pumping oil out, then the pump is probably OK. As MV8 was saying, look at the hoses, and the fittings. If you still cannot find the failure point, remove the oil pressure gauge connection. Attach a barded fitting to the block and apply a short blast of air pressure, to expose the leaking fitting or area. I would not apply constant air pressure. Edited August 9 by Dave W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbcollier Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 Fill it back up with oil. Clean up the engine bay. Get your beautiful assistant to start the engine while you watch. Shouldn't take long to find the leak. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdb Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 2 hours ago, jbcollier said: Fill it back up with oil. Clean up the engine bay. Get your beautiful assistant to start the engine while you watch. Shouldn't take long to find the leak. Then please send the beautiful assistant my way please, I need all the help I can get. But yes, I think from the sounds of it that there is a significant hole somewhere in the pressurized oiling system that should be easy to find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEM Posted August 9 Author Share Posted August 9 MV8: All hoses are new. I pulled and inspected each and there is no sign of wear, cuts, or rupture. I pulled and inspected the oil pump gears and there is no obstruction. No broken roll pin. I will look into the cooler more today. Dave W: Good suggestion on blowing back through the oil gauge port. Jb: I did this yesterday and I got no oil pressure and there was no oil leak???????????????? Do I have an oil leak AND a bad pump? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEM Posted August 9 Author Share Posted August 9 When I pulled the oil pump the pressure relief valve plunger was facing the engine. This appears opposite from the parts manual. Certainly makes it a lot easier to install. I can't imagine holding that retainer disc in place while applying pressure and installing the bolts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MV8 Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 (edited) Are you saying you did not clean everything and spin the motor to find the leak before taking it apart? A stuck or leaking relief valve does not cause an oil leak outside of the crankcase. Edited August 9 by MV8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEM Posted August 9 Author Share Posted August 9 First thing I did was to clean the engine bay, add oil, and spin the engine on the starter. No oil leak and no oil pressure. I suspected a collapsed oil filter so pulled the filter and then the oil pump to see if the pump was damaged. I am not saying the relief is the cause just noticed that it may have been installed backwards. Perhaps the pressure increased, regulator did not open, and oil pushed past the filter seals. Don't know, just putting observations out there in case it rings a bell with someone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnCh Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 If you had a pressure spike, that can kill a mechanical gauge. Been there, done that. I'd confirm the gauge is not faulty and isn't showing zero oil pressure, when in fact, it's fine. In this type of situation, oil can also spray from the breather ports. Are you running a catch can or breather filter, or does it vent directly to atmosphere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MV8 Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 The relief valve was working before. Put the pump back together as it was, put it back on the car, leave off the oil cooler adapter, filter, and bucket. Spin the starter. If oil pumps out, install the filter and bucket and spin again looking for indicated pressure. With a cooler, the oil must fill the system then the filter bucket before reaching the pressure port for indicating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher smith Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 Not directly pertinent to your current issue but----Maybe the same motor I have? The 1500 Cosworth was based on the early Cortina GT. The real early series 2 ones had a "ropeseal crank" so yours is probably the newer version. When we built mine fully intending to race SCCA, we used AN ( Army- Navy) aircraft plumbing using, I think, the -8 size to the cooler and Accu-Sump. Mostly the braided stainless steel kind. If you end up replacing any lines, you could consider that approach that virtually all race cars and many high performance street types now use. I would be happy to lend my copy of a great book to anyone interested-- Carroll Smith's --- Nuts,bolts. fasteners and plumbing handbook. From 1990 but a lot newer than much of the technology we work with now. Or simply call Ken at Dave Bean Engineering and describe what you want to do- he has the parts probably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEM Posted August 9 Author Share Posted August 9 Breather is atmospheric. No oil out the breather pipe. I'll check the oil pressure gauge. That might shed light on the no oil pressure but not the oil leak that emptied the oil pan. MV8, good suggestion. I'll take off the filter canister to see if I'm getting any flow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEM Posted August 9 Author Share Posted August 9 Oil flows freely with filter canister removed. I removed both oil cooler hoses and found a ruptured return hose. The outside casing of the hose had a small slit in it near the filter end hose clamp. It was close enough to the end of the hose that I could feel a hole on the inside of the hose with a small screwdriver. I don't know why this hose failed. It's a new hose. Outside marking says 300psi fuel hose. I have a spare hose of the same material that I will use temporarily until I can procure a higher quality hose. I will put a new hose on and try to build pressure again. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEM Posted August 10 Author Share Posted August 10 New hose but still no pressure. Opened the oil cooler lines and the oil pressure gauge port and cranked the engine (no plugs so higher cranking speed). No oil out any port. I will pull the pump again and see if there is anything amiss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbcollier Posted August 10 Share Posted August 10 Pack it with Vaseline. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IamScotticus Posted August 10 Share Posted August 10 (edited) Maybe one of these can get you primed https://www.summitracing.com/search/part-type/engine-prelubers Edited August 18 by IamScotticus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MV8 Posted August 10 Share Posted August 10 No need to pull the pump again. Did you ever remove the oil cooler sandwich adapter from the pump as I've suggested a couple times? There may be some debris out of the oil cooler or piece of old hose between the two. It is a good practice to take a few pictures when you are taking things apart to keep in a file on the hard drive (or "cloud" if using your phone); at least until the issue is sorted out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdb Posted August 11 Share Posted August 11 On 8/9/2024 at 10:47 PM, jbcollier said: Pack it with Vaseline. This is what my Porsche engine builder does. He's done literally thousands of engines, between himself and his employees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pethier Posted August 11 Share Posted August 11 On 8/9/2024 at 9:47 PM, jbcollier said: Pack it with Vaseline. I tried to find Vaseline (or any brand) Petroleum Jelly in a squeeze bottle at the drug store and struck out. Scooping the the stuff out of a jar would mean I would wind up having to re-clean the oil pump face. Easy way out, i just bought a tube of assembly lube at O'Reilly. Squirted assembly lube into the pump whilst rotating the pump gear. Got instant oil pressure running on the starter motor. Non-Seven experience: My Renault-engine Lotus Europa could lose prime during an oil change. The filter was horizontal, the filter mount was a vertical wall on the side of the engine. With the the filter removed, I could use a pumper-can to shoot fresh engine oil into the small hole until it was full. Install new filter, and Bob's your uncle. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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