Bit of an emergency on the new build... looks like I may already have to pull the engine before my first drive.

[hahuang65]

I was bleeding the clutch today, and JUST as I was getting a stiffer pedal, something seems to have popped.

All of a sudden... the pedal went loose again, as if there was no fluid... and the fluid started draining back into the bleed screw...

 

Then, brake fluid started dripping out the bottom of my bellhousing.

 

I checked around the bleed screw and stuck a Q-tip into the bellhousing and swabbed all around... no fluid there. It seems like something further down must be leaking.

I was on the phone with my dealer and it seems the conclusion is that I'd have to pull the engine (and probably the transmission out) in order to really diagnose what happened.

 

I'm kind of desperate for any second opinions or other ideas I could try before I start dis-assembling this thing.

[KnifeySpoony]

Gotta be a slave cylinder issue unfortunately. Gotta come out. That sucks! Oh well you will get good at it lol. 

[hahuang65]

Possible to just pull the engine out without the transmission,or will it have to come out together? I've an S3 chassis.

[MV8]

I expect knifey means a hydraulic release bearing (HROB) rather than a slave cylinder which would be mounted on the outside of the transmission.

HROBs that are oem type are spring loaded (have a rubber dust boot around the outside covering the spring). If the clearance is not correct between the pressure plate and the front transmission bearing retainer or the clutch pedal is pressed without the engine fully bolted to the transmission, HROB failure is expected.

 

Aftermarket HROB don't usually have a spring (or a dust boot) and no stop so over travel just results in a leak instead of failure.

Either way, it must come out to see what is going on.

 

The easiest method is for the engine and trans to come out together, then be separated next to the car.

Edited August 22 by MV8

[sf4018]

5 hours ago, hahuang65 said:

Possible to just pull the engine out without the transmission,or will it have to come out together? I've an S3 chassis.

Pull the engine with transmission attached, the disconnect will be between the back of the gearbox and driveshaft. I know it feels like you'll be undoing months of work but it's not as bad as you think, about 4 hours. Most of it is draining and pulling out the hoses.

[wdb]

I had this happen on a BMW Z4 so I feel your pain! At least on that car the transmission can be pulled from underneath. From the sounds of it though there must have been something amiss to begin with, to have that happen. You might have extra work but you might also have dodged a bullet.

[hahuang65]

3 hours ago, sf4018 said:

Pull the engine with transmission attached, the disconnect will be between the back of the gearbox and driveshaft. I know it feels like you'll be undoing months of work but it's not as bad as you think, about 4 hours. Most of it is draining and pulling out the hoses.

The driveshaft/propshaft that connects the transmission to the diff...

 

Do I need to unbolt it from the diff to pull it out of the transmission? I imagine if I just try to lift/angle the transmission immediately, that'll do some damage to the splines? I suppose that begs teh question.... will I need to remove the diff to move the propshaft?

Edited August 22 by hahuang65

[sf4018]

54 minutes ago, hahuang65 said:

The driveshaft/propshaft that connects the transmission to the diff...

 

Do I need to unbolt it from the diff to pull it out of the transmission? I imagine if I just try to lift/angle the transmission immediately, that'll do some damage to the splines? I suppose that begs teh question.... will I need to remove the diff to move the propshaft?

No, should not need to do anything with the prop or diff. Verify Your angles and clearance under the chassis is sufficient though. You’ll need to take the starter motor off the front left of the engine. It is close though.

[wdb]

Seriously, the driveshaft does not need to come out? I can't imagine aligning it when reinstalling...

[IamScotticus]

My worthless opinion. 

Something popped?  Do we know if this is a bad thing?

Maybe something popped into place? 

Try more bleeding to see if you get pressure. If you get a puddle of fluid, then you know you have a problem.

Edited August 23 by IamScotticus

[hahuang65]

11 minutes ago, IamScotticus said:

My worthless opinion. 

Something popped?  Do we know if this is a bad thing?

Maybe something popped into place? 

Try more bleeding to see if you get pressure. If you get a puddle of fluid, then you know you have a problem.

Tried bleeding more to no effect.

 

Full puddle... Brake fluid reservoir fully drained above the clutch line.

[IamScotticus]

Well, then I'm suspicious a line disconnected or a seal popped. 

A good use for a fiber optic scope to look in there.

 

Yes, engine and transmission come out together so you don't damage the shaft or spigot ( pilot) bearing in the separation.

Edited August 23 by IamScotticus

[Christopher smith]

sure sounds like what I have been going through with my concentric slave cylinder T.O. bearing unit. Mine is a Ford Cortina GT 1500, essentially the Cosworth 1500 used in mid 1960s Lotus Super 7. However the 2 grearboxes I had were beyond repair so a Ford Pinto box was adapted. Sure seems critical to have the spacing between the T.O. bearing mount, fingers of the clutch cover just right apparently. Too much gap and you will pop the hydraulic cylinder out the front ( so no more pressure) which is what I suspect happened. Or if too little space I assume you will have the T.O bearing constantly pushing against the fingers and will wear the bearing if light touch or disengage the clutch with no pedal pressure if heavy touch ( way too tight spacing). I am still working on it after an initial success with a Saab 3 bolt cylinder which finally gave up and Saab T.O. but now an my 3rd try with the Tilton bearing. What motor/trans are you using?

[hahuang65]

1 hour ago, Christopher smith said:

What motor/trans are you using?

It's a brand new Duratec + Mazda transmission.

[IamScotticus]

I looked on line (CC) to review the Duratech assembly.   IKEA manual style.  Not much there but bolt the bell to the engine.  I don't believe the CSC needs to be installed by the buyer. Both bleed nipples run to the too for ease of access and air purge. 

One question remains,  and I'm willing to ask it...

Was a clutch cover installed on the flywheel?

[Christopher smith]

19 minutes ago, hahuang65 said:

It's a brand new Duratec + Mazda transmission.

I am not familiar with either but suspect if they are fairly recent, you may have a concentric slave cylinder/ throw out bearing combination.Apparently some Miata years have that and since it is adapted to a different engine, maybe you have some after market adapter that is just not adjusted right. If so , sounds like the slave cylinder which wraps around the transmission input shaft could have over extended before it pushed far enough on clutch pressure plate fingers to release the clutch disc ( to allow shifting). So that would certainly dump fluid like I did a couple of tries ago. So not sure what adjustment method suites the Mazda or after market set-up, but you may need to  open it all up and somehow move the slave cylinder/T.O. bearing combination a bit closer to the engine. Does the Mazda bellhousing have any sort of side, top or bottom opening for you to look inside and see if the concentric slave cylinder may have popped out, that is, pushed too far toward the engine?

[hahuang65]

17 minutes ago, IamScotticus said:

Was a clutch cover installed on the flywheel?

Pretty sure...but we will find out for sure soon.

[hahuang65]

6 minutes ago, Christopher smith said:

Does the Mazda bellhousing have any sort of side, top or bottom opening for you to look inside and see if the concentric slave cylinder may have popped out, that is, pushed too far toward the engine?

It does have a tiny opening at the top for the clutch line and bleed screw but it's too small to look through. I'm pulling the engine anyways. We will find out soon. 

[Christopher smith]

You may want to take a look at the tilton website as they have a lot of info about concentric slave cylinder throw out bearings and the Gap that they recommend for their products which may not be the same as Mazda

[Christopher smith]

Forgot to mention the importance of a pedal stop.If properly adjusted, allowing just enough to release the clutch disc and then just a little more per the Tilton info.