Modern day seven

[slngsht]

The only problem I see so far with this design is the area where you would put your left elbow (on left hand drive). As I'm hacking up my car, it has become so clear how important it is to have a low opening right in front of the rear wheel to rest your elbow. It seems like this design takes some of that room away.

[Mike Rohaley]

I really like the way that you incorporated the intake into the design. Instead of the typical appendage, it is gracefully sliced in.

 

Very off topic and just for the record:

In reference to: Gwar----you have to be aggressive and send it to: Caterham-Locost-Robin hood-Westfield and the rest of the clones.

 

While I hold nothing against any of the other manufacturers out there, the Caterham is not a clone and should be recognized appropriately considering the history of the marque. If not for the patron saint of the Seven (Graham Nearn of Caterham Cars) there is little chance that this car wouldn't have become a footnote in automotive history and not the icon that it is today (and to us especially).

 

From the book The magnificent 7: "The 7 virtually died in 1966 when Lotus switched premises, or would have done, had Graham Nearn of Caterham Cars not come up with an order for 20 cars which Lotus could not refuse to honor." Instances such as this and the time when Colin called Graham to see if he would order some cars so that he could afford to go racing. Grahams response to Colin was "tell me how many I need".

 

Based on this relationship, when the time came and Colin was ready to pull the plug, he handed over the production rights of the 7 to Caterham. This event clearly connects these two makers in a way no other can claim (much in the same way that the Lancia D50's are inseperable from Ferrrai's history). Discounting this history and diluting the significance of this manufacturer does not sit well in my mind, not just as an owner, but as a member of this community. Mind you, I would never kick any of the cars that were at 07-07-07 out of my garage. They are all great and a reflection of each owner and their vision of the perfect Seven, that is not to say that there should be no sense of history.

 

With this being a marque inclusive forum, I hope that I have not alienated myself by willingly trying to make a clarification.

[solder_guy]

Love the TURBO graveyard.

 

Turbo Graveyard! HAW! haw! haw!

 

Rob

 

[BusaNostra]

"While I hold nothing against any of the other manufacturers out there, the Caterham is not a clone and should be recognized appropriately considering the history of the marque."

 

I owned 6 "REAL" Lotuses, every now and then someone will educate me about this topic....I heard it a zillion times, I must have forgotten the clone thing huh?

 

I was in Caterham shop in England, I ended up buying

the WESTFIELD CLONE! maybe I never been informed huh? are you happy?

I wonder why?

[S1Steve]

Here WE go,

 

My take on a CLONE !!!!

Made in the Lotus factory= Real 7

Made anywhere else= clone

 

I could go on and on ,:_deadhorse:

[BusaNostra]

Love the TURBO graveyard.

 

 

THANKS VERY MUCH

 

Gwar---I'm promoting your Modern day 7---here are some comments: The last one might be interested

funding the project. Do you have the rear picture?

 

 

" Nice looking render. Can I ask does it sit on a space frame?

I like the integration of the roll bar into the body work. Could the roll bar and seat back be made integral - like a single set race car? Frank Costin did this with the Marcos designed in the 60s, and single seater cars. Different leg lengths were accommodated by a sliding pedal box. "

 

Keep up the ideas, Puk

 

"Thats very nice.

Send it to Westfield, they may need to update the design of the SEIW.

Regards. "

 

 

"I like the rear arches, (but that's fine, 'cos they look like Striker arches...)

Double hoops are fine, too, but I'd like to see what they looked like

a bit higher.

Definitely like the bolt recesses.

Don't like the headlights.

You got it in a model, so we can have a peek at the back (since that's

what people should be seeing)? or is it a photoshop job?

 

Steve "

 

"What is the deal with this seven on your site.

 

http://www.mjmturbos.com/images/modern7.jpg

 

thanks

Tony"

[athens7]

Gotta love thread drift!

 

Is Carroll Shelby's continuation car a clone, or the real thing? (not the fiberglass cars, but the ali cars on serialized frames)

 

What about the Allard J2Xs built by the founder's son?

 

If a car qualifies for its marque's registry, is it the real thing, or a replica?

 

While we're on the subject of simple issues, how about that whole Israel/Palestine thing?

 

Enjoy YOUR car!

[JohnCh]

Given that Webster’s defines clone as “one that appears to be a copy of an original form” I don’t’ think it is fair to call the Westfield a clone either. As you may recall Caterham successfully sued Chris Smith and Westfield in the early ‘80s for infringing on a design they had purchased from Lotus. Consequently Westfield was forced to redesign their car so it was no longer a copy of that original form. Given that the courts of England and Caterham were satisfied that the newly redesigned Westfield no longer infringed on the Caterham-owned design – i.e. it was no longer a clone – then who are we to argue? Mike, thanks for giving me the opportunity to willingly make this clarification

 

Sarcasm aside, let's not turn this forum into a "my car is better/worthier/better pedigreed than yours” debate. Colin Chapman and the Lotus engineers created a brilliant concept. Caterham purchased the rights to the design and continued to manufacturer it after Lotus cancelled production. Caterham and its engineers then did a great job over the years to improve the car and take it in a different direction. Gone was the budget sportscar with great performance that the average person could afford. Enter a giant killer whose average price puts it out of reach of most people (a decently optioned car is more than the US median income of $48k, the original 7 was well below the median income figures of its time).

 

Over the years a number of firms have come along that have built their own cars inspired by the Lotus created concept. I find it difficult to refer to most of them as clones given that they have each introduced their own unique flair into the equation. Look at a Superformance S1, WCM Ultralite, Stalker, Westfield, Caterham CSR260, and a Lotus 7 side-by-side. Clones? I think not. They are clearly heavily influenced by the same formula but they are designs in their own right and should be celebrated as such.

 

-John

[Mondo]

I was trying to avoid the bait because I don't want to see this site broken into different categories (though as it grows I wouldn't mind seeing technical questions broke into manufacturers sections) but here goes;

 

Pretty much all the cars selling today pay homage to the original.

 

We all buy 7s for different reasons..... the badge, the performance, the look... it don't matter to me. As long as your happy:cool: .

 

But if I wanted to claim having "a Lotus 7", to me, it would have to had come from the Lotus company directly.

 

I can't help thinking what someone with an original 7 would think of the Mike's comments on pedigree.

 

 

[manik]

Yeah, even though I have a bias, I think Francie Clarkson (wife of everyone's favorite Jeremy Clarkson) put it best in her somewhat recent article in the Times - "Like Caterhams, Westfields are descended from the Lotus 7."

 

 

http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/driving/jeremy_clarkson/article2880479.ece

 

 

tm

[Mandurath]

Though not fond of the head lights and a few other small touches I like it. For something that smooth either a modernized version of the round lights or or included in the car like Donk or the Series 4 were kind of frenched into the hood a bit.

 

As far as sevens go, i don't really care who made it, i don't really care how old it is, i don't really care how much it cost. I do care if its driven or not and that the driver is happy with it. I have freinds and family that have car they value quite a bit, that never see track, never sigh high speed corners (not even exciting ones). They only thing they see is the underside of a specially made car cover. I think they (the cars) cry at night dreaming of winding roads and high speed straights. Hehehe I could be why I am not allowed near some of them. I do respect pedigree to an extent i guess, but thats for cars in musuems. The pedigree that our cars need be concerned with it one with the names of VIR, Roebling, and Nurburgring on it (Ok, I probably misspelled them), along with the most important one, the odometer. The odometer spinning is the biggest pedigree a car can have. Proof thats its driven.

 

 

[BusaNostra]

I had a real Lotus 7 Series 4 (its ugly thou). I held the car

for so long. As I got older, I need something more road worthy than my "original Series 4". I sold the car,

took the money and picked up my new Westfield "Clone" in England....haha!

 

Now, I enjoy my Westfield "CLONE", I had fun driving and meeting a bunch of

clone heads ! Nice people.

That's all it matters....life is short. Boys wanna have fun.

I heard the story and history a zillion times, they are all contaminated...enough!

 

The thread started with Gwar presenting his Modern day 7. I like innovation.

I have more respect and support innovative people like Brian, Seth, Gwar and many more

who were able to continue the legacy of the 7.

As I said, if Gwar would like to experiment, he can strip my Westfield, use the chassis for guinea pig

and more power to his dream.

Likewise, I let a local welder in Toronto copied my my original Lotus 25 while its under restoration.

He didn't do a good job...szhity job.

 

So, we all came here as a "clone head" (friends) regardless of what brand.

If you are hang up with identity, I'm willing to leave and find another twig to clone.

Amen.

 

 

 

 

 

[Al N.]

Alright, alright, alright people.

 

As the former Acting President of the club I'm stepping in to ask for a truce/moratorium/etc. on the whole "clone" thing. Please?

 

Happy New Year to all!

[Mandurath]

Do the manufacturers listen to this sort of stuff? (about possbile changes, not the real not real discussion) Heheh I sent an email to ford about a performance part from their catalog. A month later I get a call from a salesman inquiring about my wanting to purchase a new car. His dealer didn't even sell the performance parts. So I send a similar email to a chevy dealer in nashville that deals in GM performance. Listing part numbers, codes etc. Anyone that has looked for an older part knows what a pain it is finding things like this from the dealer. I get an email back. This time trying to sell me some limited edition z06, signed by some guy i have never heard of. Heheh I guess they didn't check my bank account before offering to let me look at a car they wanted about 100k for. Very cool if Caterham, Westfield, or any of the others do this. If it were up to me, I would have one of each of them. Imagines a warehouse full of 7's.

 

If they do listen, how about some Hard Tops! So I don't have to get itchy making one.

[slngsht]

Do the manufacturers listen to this sort of stuff? (about possbile changes, not the real not real discussion) Heheh I sent an email to ford about a performance part from their catalog. A month later I get a call from a salesman inquiring about my wanting to purchase a new car. His dealer didn't even sell the performance parts. So I send a similar email to a chevy dealer in nashville that deals in GM performance. Listing part numbers, codes etc. Anyone that has looked for an older part knows what a pain it is finding things like this from the dealer. I get an email back. This time trying to sell me some limited edition z06, signed by some guy i have never heard of. Heheh I guess they didn't check my bank account before offering to let me look at a car they wanted about 100k for. Very cool if Caterham, Westfield, or any of the others do this. If it were up to me, I would have one of each of them. Imagines a warehouse full of 7's.

 

If they do listen, how about some Hard Tops! So I don't have to get itchy making one.

 

Seven manufacturers aren't Ford/GM. I'm sure fresh ideas from the field factor into their product development.

[WestTexasS2K]

I forwarded it to Brian at WCM he is giving it a look. His initial impression was very nice looking car.

[ottocycle]

Greetings all. I thought I would throw in my 2c worth.

Since this forum has opened up I would love to see other designs that people like honoring the LSIS theme. I have a file I have collected over the years that includes photos and designs of all types of cars that I find interesting.

The amazing thing is how difficult it is to find a "pretty" LSIS design that is front engined and does not come across as a "clone". As with most brilliant designs its simplicity is its hallmark.

I would like to see some photos or drawings of cars that people like that follow the LSIS theme. Does anybody have any submissions or links?

Thanks,

 

Dermot.

Hayabusa/Fury.

[Deman USA]

Thanks for nobody offering to let us(Deman USA or B.A.M) know about this 7. It seems as though we are always left out. Its always a Caterham,Westfeild,Birkin, or most of all a WCM thing. So much for a couple of kids trying to start a business.

Thank you and Happy New Year.

Dino Trakas

B.A.M USA

[Boxologist]

Thanks for nobody offering to let us(Deman USA or B.A.M) know about this 7. It seems as though we are always left out. Its always a Caterham,Westfeild,Birkin, or most of all a WCM thing. So much for a couple of kids trying to start a business.

Thank you and Happy New Year.

Dino Trakas

B.A.M USA

 

who'd want that car which compromises the rear of the car(fuel/storage/handling) when we can have your car?

[slngsht]

Thanks for nobody offering to let us(Deman USA or B.A.M) know about this 7. It seems as though we are always left out. Its always a Caterham,Westfeild,Birkin, or most of all a WCM thing. So much for a couple of kids trying to start a business.

Thank you and Happy New Year.

Dino Trakas

B.A.M USA

 

Dino, don't consider this as being left out. It's natural for any owner to want to send this to the brand they own. I thought about sending it to Rotus... ah, nevermind

 

I think there are a couple of things that need to be addressed... Box brings up a good point about the trunk. I wonder how the back looks. Also, without the trunk there is NO crush zone at all.

 

The second issue which I raised earlier is the elbow area.

 

Overall though, I think the design is pretty brilliant.