Westfield 11 Builder Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 As you can tell from my name I am constructing a Westfield 11. I just found this site and was curious if you all looked upon the 11 as a form of 7? IMHO they are much alike in the chassis area, seems like the big change was the enclosed bodywork. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slngsht Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 most of us drool over the 11, so you are welcome here. :thumbs: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitcat Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Very similar cars in overall philosophy (simplicity of design, singularity of purpose). What engine will go in yours? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al N. Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 I will go out on a limb and say that many Se7eners (myself included) would not consider XIs (as cool as they are) to be Se7ens...primarily because of they don't have the "minimal bodywork" that characterizes the essential "add lightness" nature of Se7ens. I'm not trying to be divisive or exclusionary (I think other folks can vouch for my non-marque specific bent), but I doubt the casual observer would remark about an XI, "there's nothing to it"....instead they'd probably be drooling over the gorgeous bodywork and making comments like "It's beautiful"...a phrase which may have been uttered only in the presence of the infamous Sugino Seven. That said, I've always thought that it would be neat to have a "Charge of the Light Brigade" event with XIs, Fisher Furies, Atoms, etc. Welcome aboard! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westfield 11 Builder Posted February 23, 2009 Author Share Posted February 23, 2009 I had APT in Riverside CA build me a 1380cc A-series engine. I wanted 100HP on 87 octane and the dyno sheets showed 97HP so I am happy with the results. There is sufficient headroom to take this up to around 150HP at a later date. I am also running a Datsun 5-speed with 15" wire wheels and Dunlop bias-ply racing rubber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scannon Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 they'd probably be drooling over the gorgeous bodywork and making comments like "It's beautiful"...a phrase which may have been uttered only in the presence of the infamous Sugino Seven. Not true Al, I have had many people tell me my SV is beautiful, one woman even called it sexy. :rofl: I have never heard the "nothing to it" comment. Westfield XI: Welcome aboard, I love the XI and would like to build one sometime. A couple of questions for you, could you tell me the height of your engine, oil pan to highest point? Do you know how much clearance there will be between the engine and bonnet? When I do build one I want to use the spare Miata engine and trans I have sitting in my shop looking for a new home. Thanks, Skip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S1Steve Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 I will go out on a limb and say that many Se7eners (myself included) would not consider XIs (as cool as they are) to be Se7ens...primarily because of they don't have the "minimal bodywork" that characterizes the essential "add lightness" nature of Se7ens. Take a close look at one,11's are as minimal as you can get in every way. That, Like Al said, makes them very cool. POST PHOTO'S PLEASE !!!! Steve: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slngsht Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Not true Al, I have had many people tell me my SV is beautiful, one woman even called it sexy. :rofl: I have never heard the "nothing to it" comment. Westfield XI: Welcome aboard, I love the XI and would like to build one sometime. A couple of questions for you, could you tell me the height of your engine, oil pan to highest point? Do you know how much clearance there will be between the engine and bonnet? When I do build one I want to use the spare Miata engine and trans I have sitting in my shop looking for a new home. Thanks, Skip That's reserved for my car Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
11Budlite Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Welcome aboard! I'm a big fan of the Lotus and Westfield Eleven's and would love to see pics of your car. Bruce :7drive: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scannon Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 That's reserved for my car Mazda, your Se7en is as far from nothing as any Se7en I know of. Probably the heaviest as well.:jester: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westfield 11 Builder Posted February 24, 2009 Author Share Posted February 24, 2009 I can get the top to bottom dimension tomorrow, but I will say that I have to modify my stock stamped steel valve cover since the filler cap keeps the bonnet from closing. I think I need about a 1/2 inch. There is no way a Mazda engine will fit without altering the hood with a power bulge. Not to be too argumenitive, but isn't an 11 just a 7 with a streamlined body shell? I will try to get some pictures.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHKflyer52 Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Not to be too argumenitive, but isn't an 11 just a 7 with a streamlined body shell? quote] Welcome to the group Westfield 11 Builder. Well in answer to your question; No. The Eleven was a new design of Chapman and closer to the Lotus MK 9. Their are a lot of differences especially in the front end of the early real Lotus 11's as they were produced with a swing axle in 1956. In 1957 they were produced with an a-arm set up (the series 2) from the Lotus 12 and if I am not mistaken production ended in early 1959 with about 280 cars. The frame was wider and lower for better aero. I think it was about half the weight of the 7 frame due to the use of smaller tubing and less of it because the side skins are stressed members more so than in the 7. I could be wrong but it is a different chassis and a lot lighter than a 7's chassis. I still like the 11 for its looks and its simplicity and would be glad to be seen with an 11 and even chasing one down the street to look it all over. Hope to see your car in photos or even in person. Again Welcome to the group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
11Budlite Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 "Not to be too argumenitive, but isn't an 11 just a 7 with a streamlined body shell?" - I think you'll find that the Westfield Eleven frame and the early pre-lit Westfield Seven frame are very similar. I have an article from a kit car magazine from the 80's that had a road test of both cars and I'm sure they were close. Not sure how the later Westfield Seven with IRS compares. As Martin described, I think you'll find that comparing an original Lotus Eleven (even the later Series 2) frame to an original Lotus Seven frame is a little different. Although based on the same principles/construction techniques, and very similar in the cockpit area (if you don't count the side pontoons on the Eleven) the front chassis of the Eleven is wider and the rear trunk area behind the seats is different as well. I wish there was a better picture of a bare Lotus Eleven frame on the web, but this is the quickest one I could find: http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/upload/918667970_chapmanframe.jpg Bruce :7drive: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DB6 Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 "Not to be too argumenitive, but isn't an 11 just a 7 with a streamlined body shell?" - I think you'll find that the Westfield Eleven frame and the early pre-lit Westfield Seven frame are very similar. I have an article from a kit car magazine from the 80's that had a road test of both cars and I'm sure they were close. Not sure how the later Westfield Seven with IRS compares. As Martin described, I think you'll find that comparing an original Lotus Eleven (even the later Series 2) frame to an original Lotus Seven frame is a little different. Although based on the same principles/construction techniques, and very similar in the cockpit area (if you don't count the side pontoons on the Eleven) the front chassis of the Eleven is wider and the rear trunk area behind the seats is different as well. I wish there was a better picture of a bare Lotus Eleven frame on the web, but this is the quickest one I could find: http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/upload/918667970_chapmanframe.jpg Bruce :7drive: I thought that in it's original Lotus form the 11 was a space frame and that the body work was stressed, that making it part of the chassis,plus it was built just to race, it is only in kit form that I have seen one on the road. This is a good site about them : http://www.lotuseleven.org/ $5000 in 1957, wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DB6 Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 I will go out on a limb and say that many Se7eners (myself included) would not consider XIs (as cool as they are) to be Se7ens...primarily because of they don't have the "minimal bodywork" that characterizes the essential "add lightness" nature of Se7ens. I'm not trying to be divisive or exclusionary (I think other folks can vouch for my non-marque specific bent), but I doubt the casual observer would remark about an XI, "there's nothing to it"....instead they'd probably be drooling over the gorgeous bodywork and making comments like "It's beautiful"...a phrase which may have been uttered only in the presence of the infamous Sugino Seven. That said, I've always thought that it would be neat to have a "Charge of the Light Brigade" event with XIs, Fisher Furies, Atoms, etc. Welcome aboard! I agree Al, I have had many friends that are really in to cars say.... "it is nothing but a frame" about the 7, they say it in a good way but I do not know (as much as I love my car) that I would call it drop dead gorgeous, (as are many Lotus, Jags, etc of the same period ).It does attract attention tho.My personal fave that I actually owned was a 1963 Jaguar FHC E Type that really was stunning from all angles, I loved to wash and polish that car,lol. I have had people liken my 7 to : 1)Chitty Chitty Bang Bang, 2)"where do we rent that go-cart Dad"?, 3)a beach buggy, yup 2 ppl asked me how it handles in the dunes, and finally the one that I love....4)" across between an Aardvark and an electric toaster". Having said all that I love that X1, and I applaude anyone that loves cars and personally ,(though I am not a regulator here), think this is a friendy group that welcomes all cousins of the 7, so cheers and Good Luck with your new "mistress". :hurray: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeanG Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Ohhhhh, Westfield 11. That is a car that is near the top of my want it list. If I had the extra cash and some more garage space I would be tempted to go looking for one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottocycle Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 I love these discussions on what constitutes a LSIS. It is a 21st. century version of the "how many angels fit on the head of a pin" debate for gearheads. As one who loves lightweight sports cars but born with a physique more suited for a Cadillac cannot fit into an original 7 or 11. I have owned a variety of cars over the years and while they were beautiful and fun I can say right now the most fun car I have driven was the lightest. I have had to modify each small car as legroom is an issue. That said I urge those of you with an interest to check out Mallock cars. They were built in England for a class of racing called Clubmans and are magnificent in my opinion. Not beautiful in the traditional sense but brilliant in the purity of their design: simple and effective. They make a 7 look like a Cadillac- think minimalistic seven. They took the seven concept as far as it could go. Up to about 20 years ago they were building cars that could lap some English tracks within a couple of seconds of Formula 3 cars of the time, with a live axle! Pretty dammed impressive. I have a 1969 MK8 with a Lotus Ford twincam that weighed 875 lbs. when I got it. It is a blast to drive. I love the Lotus 11, (I am a big fan of the work of Frank Costin) and consider it to be one of the top 10 most beautiful cars. I would consider it a LSIS even though it was a lot more car at the time. It was a lot more expensive to produce and was targeted at a different demographic and had a more complex rear in series 2 form. If you look at the spaceframes of both cars they are a joke by todays standards and they only work as well as they do because the cars are as light and relatively underpowered as they are. I would bet if you compared the original 11 frame to the Westfield, the Westfield would be stiffer. There is a beautiful 11 racing in SVRA on the east coast. It has a polished alloy body and looks like a silver bullet. Stunning. DB6; I too had a 1961 E type coupe, a beautiful car as you said but nowhere near as fun to drive as a LSIS. Sir Sterling Moss called them "the dumb blonde of sports cars". Not my opinion.......his!!! Welcome Westfield 11 builder, there are a great bunch if guys here. Cheers- Dermot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DB6 Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Hey Dermot, I love dumb blondes. By the way what is a "lsis"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDingo8MyBaby Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 By the way what is a "lsis"? Lotus Seven inspired Sportscars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DB6 Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Lotus Seven inspired Sportscars Thanks for that, I thought it was a new make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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