Aero Devices diffusers, wings, spoilers, etc

[MHKflyer52]

Martin - As a gentleman of exceedingly good taste in carbon (meaning me...not you! :jester: ) happily exploring the infinite ways I can put carbon fiber on a seven, I can share some photos of how they mount a front wing to a Caterham Levante/CSR. The off-the-shelf mounts do not work on a S3/SV chassis but I bet you could jury-rig it with some duct tape.

 

http://www.reverie.ltd.uk/Images/upload/Caterham_Steve%20Wilson%2001-Aug-08%20004edit.jpg

 

http://www.reverie.ltd.uk/Images/upload/CaterhamFrontWing%20004.jpg

 

http://www.reverie.ltd.uk/Images/upload/Caterham_Steve%20Wilson%2001-Aug-08%20005.jpg

 

Thanks Croc for the photos of the mount and wing as that now gives me some ideas.

Neat looking car by the way.

[yellowss7]

Just curious, since I don't drive at F1 speeds like Croc, what effect would the front wing have on front end downforce on a normal lap at TBolt at NJMP?

 

End of Front straight top speed of say 120mph into a right hand 65-72mph turn and the right hand turn onto the front straitght at say 100mph.

 

Maybe turn 4 at Tbolt, say entrance at 80 mph. Other than that most speeds are sub 100 going into turns of 60 or less.

 

I find it hard to imagine that the downforce at those relatively low speeds would enable significantly higher speeds in the turns or I am wrong?

 

Of course my Clamshell front wing would certainly create way more lift than any size wing could offset.:ack::rofl:

 

Tom

[Croc]

....what effect would the front wing have on front end downforce on a normal lap at TBolt at NJMP?

 

End of Front straight top speed of say 120mph into a right hand 65-72mph turn and the right hand turn onto the front straitght at say 100mph.

 

Maybe turn 4 at Tbolt, say entrance at 80 mph. Other than that most speeds are sub 100 going into turns of 60 or less.

 

I find it hard to imagine that the downforce at those relatively low speeds would enable significantly higher speeds in the turns or I am wrong?

 

 

There is no data since as far as I know a front winged seven has not made it into a wind tunnel. From the wind tunnel experience, just for the CSR roster of aero improvements there was a small incremental benefit that increases as you get further north of 100mph but essentially unnoticeable below.

 

Link that to Thunderbolt where you only get over 100mph on 2 parts of the circuit for cornering - last corner onto main straight and T3. Of these T3 is the highest speed as I think with a good set of sticky slicks and a lot of courage you could be seeing 110-115mph in my car through that very fast sweeping turn (not that I do! :rofl:) so I have to believe any benefit is so low that even an F1 driver would not notice.

 

However, for a place like Silverstone which in F1 GP format is an insanely fast circuit where there are a lot of corners that you turn through at 100mph and higher then this would be the place I would want to test to see the result of an aero improvement. The race R300 I had could have definitely benefited with a front wing as it was a pig at understeering at silly speed turns unless I got off the throttle to get weight on the front tires to have turn in bite.

[DRCorsa]

@Tom,

 

From the data i have gathered in CFD, regarding a dual element wing i am currently designing, the downforce figures are more than enough, to say the least. For example i got something like 2300N (this should equate to about 520lbf or 235kgf) of downforce at 50m/s or 112mph and this is not at the maximum downforce adjustment!

 

I have not made an analysis at lower speeds yet, just because CFD is time-consuming, but theoretically a downforce generating device capable of 2300N at 112mph should give you 642N or 65kg, or 144lbf at 60mph, which actually is not bad at all.

 

Downforce is a difficult and easy thing. It is difficult because it requires time and knowledge to design and implement it right, it is easy because you can mount a super-powerful engine and a set of efficient super-large wings, but then you should find a chassis capable to withstand all these loads...

Edited December 17, 2011 by DRCorsa

[yellowss7]

 

Downforce is a difficult and easy thing. It is difficult because it requires time and knowledge to design and implement it right, it is easy because you can mount a super-powerful engine and a set of efficient super-large wings, but then you should find a chassis capable to withstand all these loads...

 

Thanks, DR.

 

Since as Mike says only 2 turns on TBolt are possible at 100+mph, the benefit vs cost may not be worth it. As there is usually a drag penalty too, it may actually be a real negative as my 195bhp is no where near the SUPER Powerful engine that the driving gods like Mike and Mike and Karl have.:puke:I'll wait for Croc and Karl to test them out before I join the Carbon Tart club. :jester:

 

Tom

[Kitcat]

Birkin has come out w/a carbon fiber toneau cover for the passenger seat area (seat is removed). When coupled w/the CF wind deflector the theory is it makes the car (relatively) more aerodynamic. I am awaiting real world testing results. (Birkin also now offers a supercharger for my engine spec, but that's a subject for anther day/post:)).

[MichaelD]

Folis Jones is in the process of installing the right sid cover on is Birkin. Looks good so far. He is pushed by 185 hp at the rear wheels.

 

BTW NASA MidAtlantic 2012 schedule is here:

 

Feb 17-19 NASA MidAtlantic VIR

Mar 23-25 NASA MidAtlantic VIR

Apr 28-29 NASA MidAtlantic Summit Point

Jun 16-17 NASA MidAtlantic Summit Point Hyperfest

Jul 20-22 NASA MidAtlantic VIR

Aug 18-19 NASA MidAtlantic Summit Point

Oct 12-14 NASA MidAtlantic VIR

Nov 3-4 NASA MidAtlantic Summit Point

June 16-17 is a great time the entire weekend starting at 4PM on Friday. It would be great to has a slew of Sevens there. Book your romm at the Hampden Inn in Winchester.

[Alaskossie]

I bought a pair of lower A-arm c/f airfoils from SevenSpeed (formerly SevenTweeks?) in UK, before Linds decided to move on to other things. (The website is still up, at: http://www.sevenspeed.co.uk/carbon-fibre.html)

 

I liked SevenSpeed's airfoils better than the Mog/Fluke items, because the former have the airfoil moulded in, but also have a rear lip that fits over the trailing portion of the A-arm (I believe the Mog/Fluke items attach to the front A-arm section only).

 

Unfortunately, the foils I received from SevenSpeed have front and rear attachment flanges that fit only the standard (round-section) Caterham wide-track A-arms; my car has the narrow-section "aero" A-arms.

 

It seemed like a good idea at the time.....I still have the SevenSpeed items, and may use them for an A-arm airfoil pattern designed to fit the Caterham aero arms.

[TxCoyote]

Just finished the rear wing install. Seat of the pants shows three things on the street.

1. Wind noise around my head is reduced
   
2. Not sure about the downforce if any has been added
   
3. Looks BadAss!
   

 

I have also purchased the carbon fiber front whiskers from Caterham. What opinions do you guys have on mounting, low or high?:bigear:

[Croc]

Just finished the rear wing install. Seat of the pants shows three things on the street.

1. Wind noise around my head is reduced
   
2. Not sure about the downforce if any has been added
   
3. Looks BadAss!
   

I have also purchased the carbon fiber front whiskers from Caterham. What opinions do you guys have on mounting, low or high?:bigear:

 

 

Wow! I like it. Nice color scheme of the dark blue and yellow too.

 

The only negative I can forsee is that over 110mph you will be popping a wheelie with that wing Are you auto-xing or tracking? I am not sure a few little whiskers will counteract that rear rear wing and give you any steering but I would put the carbon winglets about midway with the top of them roughly even with where the upper A arm exits the nosecone.

[TxCoyote]

I would put the carbon winglets about midway with the top of them roughly even with where the upper A arm exits the nosecone.

 

Thanks for the comment Mike. I mostly AutoX with this car with some Time Trial events mixed in. I have an old RX7 I just painted for wheel to wheel. The paint may look familiar:deadhorse:

 

As for the whiskers that sounds about correct. Should they be level or slightly nose down do you think? No instructions or photos were forthcoming from Caterham.

[Croc]

Here is a photo of how they are mounted on my seven:

 

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a354/mjohnson555/seats/CSR/October%202011/DSC_1989_edited-1.jpg

 

 

 

Definitely they should be nosedown to present a profile and provide a channelling upwards of the airflow (i.e. downforce).

[scannon]

Here's how they sit on my car. They came with a template to assist with installation. It looks like they are more steeply raked than on Croc's car.

 

http://www.britishv8.org/Other/SkipCannon/SkipCannon-DA.jpg

[joshesh]

Just finished the rear wing install. Seat of the pants shows three things on the street.

1. Wind noise around my head is reduced
   
2. Not sure about the downforce if any has been added
   
3. Looks BadAss!
   

 

I have also purchased the carbon fiber front whiskers from Caterham. What opinions do you guys have on mounting, low or high?:bigear:

 

Is that legal in EM/DM for scca autox? I thought you can only have air going over one side of the wing (not both like a regular wing)?

 

Please inform me if I am wrong.

[TxCoyote]

Is that legal in EM/DM for scca autox? I thought you can only have air going over one side of the wing (not both like a regular wing)?

 

Please inform me if I am wrong.

 

Not sure but that's a good question. I run in E Mod and I thought wings are OK in all mod classes but I'm not sure. Really doesn't matter though because in E Mod when you get to Nationals you have to run against Keisel in the Rotary Sprite.

[Boxologist]

Wings are not legal for D/EM. The whiskers are protestable too.

[joshesh]

How are the whiskers protestable? If the csr had them along with the hood vent can't you work under the update/backdate rule and use anything another trim of your car has.

[TxCoyote]

Here's how they sit on my car. They came with a template to assist with installation. It looks like they are more steeply raked than on Croc's car.

 

http://www.britishv8.org/Other/SkipCannon/SkipCannon-DA.jpg

 

I never got a template :nopity:

[scannon]

I never got a template :nopity:

I'll see if I can find mine and send you a copy if you like. It probably won't be an exact fit to your nosecone but it should give you the angle and relative spacing.

[jbanker]

Hey Russ,

 

Your 2 element wing looks cool. You might get by with running it in SCCA Regional events if you are the only E/M car in your class. Most likely you will have to run A/M if you want to win FTD honors.

 

It won't make it through SCCA Divisional events or National Tour events unless you run A/M.

 

D/M and E/M are non-aero classes. You can run with a tall 10" spoiler and you can also run with a front splitter but it can't extend the width of the bodywork under the nose. The spoiler can even extend out to the edge of the rear fenders but they must be attached to the fenders.

 

You can also run with a defuser underneath the rear section of the car. The rule book is very specific about spoilers with no air passing underneath the device. If any air flow can pass underneath it is then considered as a wing which is forbidden in our class.

 

Jack