pureadrenalin Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Anyone running one of these little monsters? I know they are pretty pricey...but..400 NA HP? I could only imagine what a quick spooling turbo, an additional 200hp, and some traction control yould be like...:willy_nilly: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notakit Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 I'll easily lose my lisence with a $200. $65 hp engine. They'd lock me up with a 400 hp $33,000 engine, assuming I survived the drive! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notakit Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 I'll easily lose my lisence with a $200. 65 hp engine. They'd lock me up with a 400 hp $33,000 engine, assuming I survived the drive! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pureadrenalin Posted November 23, 2011 Author Share Posted November 23, 2011 While it's an expensive little monster, it sure would be an insane ride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Croc Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 (edited) When I was spec’ing the CSR late last year I explored the Hartley V8 and stopped being serious when I finished totaling up the price of engine, transmission, ancillaries, wiring harness, testing, tuning, fettling to make the thing actually go in a seven. I was $40k on an all in basis once I added everything up. It fits in a Caterham S3 chassis fairly well, an SV or CSR chassis was going to be really easy. John Hartley did his seven when he decided his Zetec just did not have enough poke! I did have residual concerns that it had not been in enough installations to prove to me that it was sufficiently reliable over the longer term. Also it was just a little bonkers for the road. Despite that the workmanship was just awesome – like a work of art. The other package I explored was Russell Savery’s RST V8 which first saw light in the Caterham Levante. I dropped in late last year when in the UK on business. Well since then they have developed a V6 version. Noticeably lighter than the V8, the V6 developed about 340 something HP in normal aspiration. Fits a seven much more easily than the V8. When you drop turbos on it you comfortably get to 500 something hp in what was described as an unstressed installation. Given the track record they have of putting the V8 and V6 in sevens or atoms in both normal aspiration or turbo’ed installation this would have been the way to go. Alas it was also too expensive – well over $40k with everything added up. With some hindsight, the smart package if you want a V8 and bulk grunt then go buy a Stalker and stick an LS into it. Probably the complete car would be the same as just the engine/transmission package of either the Hartley/RST. The other option is do Skip’s (Scannon) method of turboing a Miata – easily into 300hp land there for reasonable money. Flying Miata makes it fairly turnkey. Of course you could also supercharge a Duratec if you do not want to go a Miata or LS way. Despite all this, I discovered that a seven just does not need huge horsepower be very fast. With my relatively small Duratec (compared to a V8/V6), I can still spin wheels coming out of pretty much any corner on every racetrack I have tried so far and I have 10 inch rears and the best rear suspension that has come out on a seven in production. More horsepower and I need much more rubber to control it. The natural evolution in that development is to go to Stalker land where they are designed next level up heavier with bigger rubber to control it. The Stalker LS package is really a good bargain when viewed this way. Edited November 25, 2011 by Croc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottocycle Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 I agree with Croc. I saw the Hartley V8 at Carlisle about 5 or 6 years ago and talked with John Hartley. A very nice guy and he was working with an Atom V8 installation for a west coast customer. He was talking about a Sainz or Hewland style sequential transmission and a Motec electronic fuel injection system. I remember the figure of 50 to 60 K for the package being mentioned. The price was way out of my range but if I won the lotto I would buy one tomorrow. It would be a decision of the heart not the head. It is a "Faberge Egg" of an engine and a wonderful example of technical pornography. I would also like to support an engineer of John Hartleys capabilities. Men like him who have the courage to beat that lonely path have a hard road to hoe and were I in a position to patronize their efforts I would. The downside includes what Croc said regarding the fact that, due to the limited numbers he makes, each buyer is the R&D department and should enter the deal assuming that there will be development issues, and be pleasantly surprised if there are none. I also think that this engine is overkill for a seven. If one has more horsepower than the car can handle (4th gear wheelspin with 10" tires) then I think one needs to work on chassis dynamics and/or aero improvements. I am working on turbo-charging a Hayabusa to give me a little more power so as I can play with sevens in the 220-250 hp range (there are a number of them out there, you know who you are......) but after that I think downforce will provide better lap-times than horsepower. As aside, I do not want to hijack this thread, if anyone can point me to some sites where I can find information on underbody ground effect profiles I would appreciate it. I want to learn more about ground effect. just my 2c worth. Dermot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rikker Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 is a fkn understatement... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blubarisax Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 40K for the best Se7en bragging rights does not sound that bad to me. However, based on my experience for getting the Formula Atlantic Cosworth motor in my car, the cost of "getting it to work well" in an experimental setup could be considerably more. And, running at half throttle on the track is plenty exciting for me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Croc Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 I am working on turbo-charging a Hayabusa to give me a little more power so as I can play with sevens in the 220-250 hp range (there are a number of them out there, you know who you are......) but after that I think downforce will provide better lap-times than horsepower. way O/T so sorry in advance.... Hi Dermot :seeya: I am interested in hearing more about the Hayabusa turbo you are planning. From seeing one of these in the UK absolutely monster regular K series and zetec sevens around Brands Hatch circuit, I think you have a winner on your hands. Was this to be on a sevens chassis? If so then read the link here which discusses what happened at MIRA when they stuck a seven in a windtunnel http://www.blatchat.com/t.asp?id=192693&pn=1&ps=15 If not on a sevens chassis then we probably need to know what vehickle we are working with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scannon Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 Was this to be on a sevens chassis? If so then read the link here which discusses what happened at MIRA when they stuck a seven in a windtunnel http://www.blatchat.com/t.asp?id=192693&pn=1&ps=15 The magazine article on that wind tunnel test is posted at http://usa7s.com/vb/showpost.php?p=42611&postcount=32 Unfortunately the text is too small for my eyes. I have jpg's of the article that can be read if anyone is interested. Three pages of about 2.3 mb each. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Croc Posted November 26, 2011 Share Posted November 26, 2011 you can read the article if you print it out on to letter sized paper. At least that is what I did to read it. The same article is also on page 3 of the blatchat link I posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottocycle Posted November 26, 2011 Share Posted November 26, 2011 Mike, Hello. Sorry I was not able to meet you guys at NJMP. It looks like you all had a great time. I will see you there next Spring if Tom puts on another gathering (hint, hint). I have been playing with a turbo for my car and am working on the electronics at the moment. I want to get a few more horses so that I can try to keep up with you guys. Send me a PM with your phone # or e mail and I will fill you in on my long term plans for my next project. I would be interested to hear what your impression of the turbocharged cars is. I am not looking for crazy numbers just enough to be competitive. My comment on aero was related to my search for more knowledge on the subject of aerodynamics. I know it is complicated but I wanted to know where positive gains could be made by the home mechanic rather than getting involved with wind tunnels or computer modeling. Cheers- Dermot. PS: Are you in Singapore or en route to OZ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusaNostra Posted November 26, 2011 Share Posted November 26, 2011 (edited) xxx Edited December 7, 2011 by BusaNostra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellowss7 Posted November 26, 2011 Share Posted November 26, 2011 Sorry I was not able to meet you guys at NJMP. It looks like you all had a great time. I will see you there next Spring if Tom puts on another gathering (hint, hint). Cheers- Dermot. Dermot, we will certainly try to get another Day on the track in the spring, hopefully with alot more 7s this time. Of course you will be included in our esteemed group. We'll have to see how many are interested as we could have the option of renting the track ourselves if we can get suffienct numbers. Otherwise, we will probably run with the SCDA group again. Hope to see you in the spring. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rnr Posted November 26, 2011 Share Posted November 26, 2011 I have a friend who retrofitted an Elise Diffuser to his Duratec powered Europa and claims that it really made a difference to the handling in high speed sweepers. The Elise diffuser is relatively cheap, lighweight and should fit under Seven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottocycle Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 Busanostra, THAT IS SERIOUS HEAT. Thanks for the tip. I will work on insulation and cooling. It can be quite difficult to get it under control. I like the diffuser and chin spoiler. Even if they just "inspire" more confidence; they work!!!! Cheers- Dermot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Croc Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 (edited) Dermot - PM sent with contact details. To respond on aero matters - In June at Silverstone I was having significant challenges with high speed understeer in a standard R300 SV race car anywhere above 120mph. At our mid-year escapades at NJMP when I was in my own car, I was getting wheelspin and squirelly in 4th gear on the back straight hump at Thunderbolt and front straight hump on Lightning. So I added the CSR chin spoiler and a Reverie rear diffuser. I was privileged enough to put my CSR into a university wind tunnel in August for 5 hours to see what the results were but am not allowed to publish or comment on the test results as some academics want that privilege to get their doctorates. I do not even have a copy just some notes on percentage improvement. Other cars that went into the wind tunnel as part of the same study included a Toyota Camry, Ferrari 430, Chevy Malibu, Prius, Dodge minivan, and a Tahoe. There were others but I was not privy to them. Simply put the test showed incremental downforce improvements provided by each unit (chin spoiler or diffuser) once you were over 100mph, steadily increasing as you got up to 155mph (theoretical top speed of CSR even though it would be reduced slightly with diffuser addition only). The two additions were below a 4% improvement in overall downforce (not sure how far below). The chin spoiler was a "appreciable" difference in its own right. I think Busa's front air dam design would work even better than my standard Caterham CSR unit. The diffuser was not a clear cut choice if you thought about the cost. There was no benefit to having a diffuser with or without the vertical strakes. There was zero benefit below 100mph for anything. On the track in November confirmed with seat of the pants - no wheel spin on the humps on Thunderbolt or Lightning and car felt a little more planted so I felt more confident on high speed corners. Feeling more confident is half of the issue sometimes. Busa - Everytime I see some more details on your car I am more impressed. I can see the development you have put into your car. I guess you just went back to plain old Busa power eventually and gave up on the turbo idea given the heat issues (wow!) you hit? Edited November 27, 2011 by Croc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusaNostra Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 (edited) xxx Edited December 7, 2011 by BusaNostra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHKflyer52 Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 I put a vent but still not enough to cool it http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/9216/mama012.jpg. BusaNostra...Those are some nice vent covers......I take it you made them from scratch....Nice job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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