mrmustang Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 No, I'm not starting this thread as a pissing contest, what I'm searching for is perhaps someone who has had both an older style powerplant (Say a Kent motor) and either upgraded the motor to a newer Zetec or Duratec, or perhaps sold their old car and bought one with the newer powerplant already installed. Again, I keep looking at Caterhams and Birkins that are 1,000 miles away from my current location, hate to buy without seeing and at least being taken for a drive..........Not quite crunch time for me, but better to get some perspective now, then later. Thanks in advance, Sincerely, Bill S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancylad Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 No, I'm not starting this thread as a pissing contest, Thanks in advance, Sincerely, Bill S. I'll get the popcorn......:lurk: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S1Steve Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 Sounds like ( Mike) kitcat is the guy you want to talk to... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitcat Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 (edited) I have a Duratec Birkin, a Zetec Caterham and just sold a X-flow Caterham. Sort of depends what the use of car is. I loved the X-flow. It sounded like a race car had just been let out on the street. And it more than held its own on the track. The X-flow didn't have super acceleration after 70 mph and top speed was 106 vs 125 in the other cars. So if you are mostly using it on the street, and lite track use, I wld be very happy with X-flow. If you want to strap on a rocket sled, or be (much) more competitive at the track, get a car with the other engines. They also sound good (just not as good (IMHO)). I "upgraded" by purchasing an existing car and selling my X-flow Cat. My Birkin will be listed here in nxt few days, if I can get it together to clean it up, take photos, etc. I have spent a not-so-small fortune fixing the multiple problems it came with and it appears to be in terrific shape. I have tracked it and street driven it since last repair and it has run like a top. If you want to test drive, there are a # of se7ens owners in your vicinity who I am sure wld take you for a spin. Maybe do a separate post asking if anyone wants to volunteer? It makes tons of sense: the experience may be much different than you have imagined, both good/bad (faster lower, racier, louder, hotter, cruder, smaller, etc.). And I visit Meadville PA 1x a month and can bring my Birkin if you are sorely tempted by it:). Mike M. Edited July 7, 2012 by Kitcat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmustang Posted July 8, 2012 Author Share Posted July 8, 2012 I have a Duratec Birkin, a Zetec Caterham and just sold a X-flow Caterham. Sort of depends what the use of car is. I loved the X-flow. It sounded like a race car had just been let out on the street. And it more than held its own on the track. The X-flow didn't have super acceleration after 70 mph and top speed was 106 vs 125 in the other cars. So if you are mostly using it on the street, and lite track use, I wld be very happy with X-flow. If you want to strap on a rocket sled, or be (much) more competitive at the track, get a car with the other engines. They also sound good (just not as good (IMHO)). I "upgraded" by purchasing an existing car and selling my X-flow Cat. My Birkin will be listed here in nxt few days, if I can get it together to clean it up, take photos, etc. I have spent a not-so-small fortune fixing the multiple problems it came with and it appears to be in terrific shape. I have tracked it and street driven it since last repair and it has run like a top. If you want to test drive, there are a # of se7ens owners in your vicinity who I am sure wld take you for a spin. Maybe do a separate post asking if anyone wants to volunteer? It makes tons of sense: the experience may be much different than you have imagined, both good/bad (faster lower, racier, louder, hotter, cruder, smaller, etc.). And I visit Meadville PA 1x a month and can bring my Birkin if you are sorely tempted by it:). Mike M. Mike, Appreciate the response, this is the type of feedback I am looking for. Not going to track it (having recently sold off my SCCA ITE car, and retired my 289FIA ERA Cobra replica from the track due to a lack of free time and spare funds). My last 7 replica (circa 1999) had a pretty standard kent motor backed up by a 4spd and dion rear end (see attached with my friend and fellow racer JM hamming it up), I did not own it long, maybe put 600 miles on it before headed back to ITE.....So road course wise, maybe 5-10% of the time, autocross 0% (just not my thing any more), the rest road use.......Keep the feedback coming (you can PM me the details on the Birkin :cooldude:) as any useful information always appreciated.... Sincerely, Bill S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnCh Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 I agree with Kitcat. I've had a 1700 Crossflow and now a 2.0L Duratec. They are both great engines, but serve slightly different purposes. If your primary interest in a se7en is for the undiluted driving experience, and you aren't that worried about ultimate performance, then the Crossflow is a great choice. It oozes character, is powerful enough to get a se7en to 60mph in 6 seconds or less, and sounds fantastic at any throttle opening or rpm. If, however, ultimate performance is more important to you and the idea of blistering acceleration is a key consideration, then you are probably better served with a more modern powerplant. You'll get a lot more power, better touring range and drivability, and you'll still have character -- just not quite as much. -John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timax Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Touring aside , I would love a BDA engine in my car. Would have no hope passing emissions though, Just the sound of the thing. Couldn't care less about lap times or 0-60 etc. Just the sound would keep a smile on my face. Failing that a Caterham BDR would be cool. I think i really need 2, 7's. Wild and Mild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnCh Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 I don't think 0-60 times would be an issue with a BDA. Affordability though is a slightly different story -John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Croc Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 I have not had quite the same experience as Mike with the crossflow but my first seven was the BMC 1200cc donk which I used to vintage race in Oz. Made lots of lovely noise and sometimes even provided some forward movement. Actually that is unfair - it was slow to get mobile but as long as you kept the momentum up, kept off the brakes then the little car could beat up the more powerful heavier cars. My later SVT Zetec was a brilliant engine - cheap, reliable, economical. Plenty of power for a seven type vehicle. The only issue I felt was wrong with it was it felt constrained as you went close to the redline. The power band was narrower - 3800rpm to 6000rpm. It did not seem to like it as much. My installation was the standard SVT zetec with the factory intake so I am guessing it was a breathing issue that seems to correct itself on throttle bodies. At least it does on some other zetecs that I have had the privilege of checking out at close quarters (MichaelD's). This is clearly fixed in the duratec which comes as a 2.0 and 2.3. The standard 2.0 can run to 8500 on a standard crank with some throttle bodies and other light modifications. Even the 2.3 long stroke is good for 7500 on the standard crank. A range of power outputs from 175hp to 300hp and it is 40 pounds lighter than a zetec. My 2.3 truck engine (Ford Ranger) loves to rev and would be happy to keep going past its limit of 7800. The torque is always present and the power band is nicely wide - starts at 4000rpm and keeps going to 7500rom. While the noise is not as aurally satisfying as a xflow, it is an improvement over a zetec which always sounded a little flat to my ears. My style of driving has evolved with the changes in engine. With the duratec on road I tend to hang on to a gear and rely on the torque to push me out of a corner whereas before on my earlier cars I would have to punt it down some gears to lift the revs to punch more out of a corner. Certainly I can do both now with the Duratec - for touring I can be lazy and on a track the option still exists to lift the revs and be more punchy using the power of the engine. More flexibility for you as a driver. The newer engines may not have the character of a xflow but they are worthy successors and well suited to sevens. Now of course you could always try to find a Vauxhall boat anchor or a Rover cheese block K series (plastic head dowels anyone?). There is another debate to have! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellowss7 Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Now of course you could always try to find a Vauxhall boat anchor or a Rover cheese block K series (plastic head dowels anyone?). There is another debate to have! :troll::troll: Now you know full well Michael, that the plastic dowels issue was rectified over a decade ago. :smash: How else do you think we got the Rover K series down to around 191 lbs in weight, the whole block and head are plastic. :smilielol5: Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmustang Posted July 9, 2012 Author Share Posted July 9, 2012 I'll get the popcorn......:lurk: So I shouldn't ask which is better Birkin or Caterham:smilielol5: Again I do appreciate the feedback and guidance. Sincerely, Bill S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Croc Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 So I shouldn't ask which is better Birkin or Caterham:smilielol5: . There is a "third way" - JohnCh has the Birkin SV wide body which has all the advantages of both plus the ability to "float" through the wet weather of the Pacific Northwest. :jester: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmustang Posted July 9, 2012 Author Share Posted July 9, 2012 There is a "third way" - JohnCh has the Birkin SV wide body which has all the advantages of both plus the ability to "float" through the wet weather of the Pacific Northwest. At 5'11" and 190lbs, I do not think I qualify for the "Wide Body" :jester: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XR4Bill Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Touring aside , I would love a BDA engine in my car. Would have no hope passing emissions though, Just the sound of the thing. Couldn't care less about lap times or 0-60 etc. Just the sound would keep a smile on my face. Failing that a Caterham BDR would be cool. I think i really need 2, 7's. Wild and Mild I used to own an Escort RS1600 many years ago and yes, the sound of those motors is fantastic. Wish I still had it. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnCh Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 There is a "third way" - JohnCh has the Birkin SV wide body which has all the advantages of both plus the ability to "float" through the wet weather of the Pacific Northwest. :jester: The rare fiberglass body certainly helps with the latte...er, latter (curse you PNW auto correct!) -John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusaNostra Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 New vs old powerplant? For me? I just don't want to deal with WEBER or Stromberg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancylad Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Just a minute, nowt wrong with a pair of well fettled webers....more popcorn anyone!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihckb2 Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Sorry, I'm from the Old School, so give me a good simple engine without all the electronics. 1973 Toyota 2TG (now rare) with twin Weber 45's. pulls at low RPM like crazy and screams up to 8000 plus. MSD cut out set at 7000. Webers are easy, set the idle and sinc together, the rest is a piece of cake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitcat Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 A coupla other thots: My Duratec gets better gas mileage than my little gashog X-flow. Of course, if you cared, you wldnt have a se7en in 1st place. And the Duratec is much more tractable:it pulls easily 1500 rpm's up, X-flow didn't really "clear its throat" till 3000 rpm's. And since it is so tractable, I can shift 1-3-5 in the Duratec. Again tho, if you are not running up thru the gears with gusto, ya mite as well trade for a Prius (wh/I own BTW). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellowss7 Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Again tho, if you are not running up thru the gears with gusto, ya mite as well trade for a Prius (wh/I own BTW). Enough of your liberal rants! :rofl: Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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