The Regular Summary of Classified Ads of Se7ens Found For Sale

[Croc]

...does anybody have any input on overall reliability, heat saturation after a few hard laps and so on???

 

I have heard a LOT of mixed stories around that supercharger package over the years but to make sure it is not just like UFOs/intelligent blondes/honest politicians/etc. (i.e. you hear about them but they don't exist in my real life) it would be interesting to hear directly on this forum from a happy customer.

 

 

Also (from your list above), the very pretty Caterham 480

 

Fails your hp requirements. A 485 is only around 237hp and thats Caterham claimed hp so it is probably overstated by 5%+ for marketing purposes as claimed hp never seems to be achieved under owner dyno testing - my own cars included - until the ECU tune is remapped from standard. So a 485 is a healthy hp car but less than your Ultralite's 243hp which you stated was a condition. It is an SV wide body. Given your hp focus, I don't think you would be happy unless you have more.

[Bruce K]

You make me sound like a one-trick pony, Croc. Actually, handling is Number One, and newer Bruntons (pushrod suspension) and newer Birkins/Caterhams are well-endowed in that area, plus have the classic proportions that I prefer. Now, as I choose between all the contenders, I will look for the power edge to help me make my call. With Sevens, it is my experience that HP helps off the line, yes, but also at the end of long straights, where the brick-like aero qualities of Sevens do their worst. Sevens usually catch up in the braking zone, but if we can make 150 mph or more down the straight, and get to speed quickly (instead of the typical plant-your-throttle, light-a-cigar and grow-a-beard response), it is easier to pass and to shake those big-horsepower thunderbutts menacing us from behind.

 

I appreciate your analysis of the 480 SV. It likely would be very equivalent to my former WCM S2K in performance, but at least my wife could fit into the passenger seat!

 

I, too, am suspicious of the overall performance and longevity of the Rotex supercharger. In my discussions with the progenitor of the WCM marque, he told me he did not offer a supercharger because of packaging issues and no place to position an intercooler. Without an intercooler, heat saturation quickly robs the motor of most power gains. That is the problem with the Lotus Elise SC - no intercooler, so the supercharger is not much help on the track - useful mostly for passing situations or off-the-line.

Edited August 28, 2019 by Bruce K
error

[wemtd]

Why not a Storker then?

[Bruce K]

I am considering V8 Stalkers, either Classic or Classic XL. I would miss the high-rpm motor that's come with all of my former Sevens. In lieu of that, I'd pick up loads more grunt down low - those LS motors are like diesels down there! I would also sense, at all times, the presence of an additional 400 to 500 pounds weight. It would not be quite the flea-flick driving experience of a lightweight Seven - more like an improved version of my Alfa 4C. I'm also considering a sequential trans, like a Sadev or Quaife, and I don't believe sequential or DCT is available on a Stalker. Since GM pushed Tremec to develop a DCT for the mid-engined Corvette, however, this engineering may flow out to hot-rodders and boutique car builders like Scott Minehart of Brunton. I am looking into that presently. I would consider a Caterham 620R if 1) they didn't sticker for used-Ferrari prices and 2) there was actually room for feet in the footwell.

[Croc]

You make me sound like a one-trick pony, Croc.

 

Nonsense - ponies shit and gallop and kick you when you least expect! More than one trick in that! :jester:

 

 

...it is my experience that HP helps off the line, yes, but also at the end of long straights, where the brick-like aero qualities of Sevens do their worst. Sevens usually catch up in the braking zone, but if we can make 150 mph or more down the straight.... it is easier to pass and to shake those big-horsepower thunderbutts menacing us from behind.

 

Yes - exactly. No Caterham or Birkin I know of reaches 150mph on a track though. Best I saw was when I drove the 620R at 146mph at both Estoril and Hungaroring circuits although I suspect I did it late in the day at Portimao but I was shitting myself as I came off the cliff into the high speed understeer drop onto the main straight and not paying attention to the speedo or rev counter. They all have big ass F1 long straights. In theory my CSR does 155mph at vMax but I am yet to take it to Bonneville to see if I can find it after a 5 mile run up.

 

 

...it is easier to pass and to shake those big-horsepower thunderbutts menacing us from behind.

 

Just call him Shane. I find I giggle when I use an inoffensive name. He's not that scary then!

 

 

I, too, am suspicious of the overall performance and longevity of the Rotex supercharger. In my discussions with the progenitor of the WCM marque, he told me he did not offer a supercharger because of packaging issues and no place to position an intercooler. Without an intercooler, heat saturation quickly robs the motor of most power gains.

 

Some user on this forum did a Birkin one - I think it was TheGoat or Goat. A search here might surface the name for you to PM and inquire. I vaguely recall an intercooler being used but cannot recall where installed.

 

On a positive note, the Caterham 620R installation has been quite reliable on track based on UK owners I know who have done 6000 track only miles.

 

 

I am considering V8 Stalkers, either Classic or Classic XL. I would miss the high-rpm motor that's come with all of my former Sevens. In lieu of that, I'd pick up loads more grunt down low - those LS motors are like diesels down there! I would also sense, at all times, the presence of an additional 400 to 500 pounds weight. It would not be quite the flea-flick driving experience of a lightweight Seven - more like an improved version of my Alfa 4C.

 

Yes you move from a fully loaded 1250-1300lbs to a 1750lbs Stalker. While not totally cruise ship like in handling, a Stalker does have more weight/inertia in being thrown around. A Caterham is quicker in the corners but the stalker walks...errr....runs away out of a corner. Torque is your friend there. Not much between them under brakes though. It depends on your local circuit. A tight circuit like you get in the UK suits a Caterham well. A big open USA circuit suits a Corvette/Mustang/Heifer/etc which only go fast in a straight line then wobble around corners.

 

 

I'm also considering a sequential trans, like a Sadev or Quaife, and I don't believe sequential or DCT is available on a Stalker. Since GM pushed Tremec to develop a DCT for the mid-engined Corvette, however, this engineering may flow out to hot-rodders and boutique car builders like Scott Minehart of Brunton.

 

The Sadev tops out around 350-400hp from memory. But there are sequential transmission options for the LS engine

 

Option 1

https://shop.quaife.co.uk/chevrolet-chevy-ls-six-speed-rear-wheel-drive-sequential-gearbox

 

This is T5 sized so should fit a Stalker gearbox tunnel.

 

Option 2

https://www.lgmotorsports.com/corvette-sequential-transmission.html

 

Both can be combined with paddleshifters.

 

Option 3

Put a hydramatic in it and just pretend it is sequential.

 

 

Anything can be done with money and a shit eating grin.

 

 

 

I would consider a Caterham 620R if 1) they didn't sticker for used-Ferrari prices and 2) there was actually room for feet in the footwell.

 

The 620R is RHD only. Cannot be LHD as the supercharger packaging gets in the way. You can order a 620R SV with the wider cockpit and bigger footwell. I had no problems driving that version in Spain and Portugal. I drove the S3 version in Hungary but did not notice the footwell issue as I never used the clutch after getting rolling and just left foot braked to avoid confusion.

 

Cheers

mike

Edited August 28, 2019 by Croc

[rnr]

I am considering V8 Stalkers, either Classic or Classic XL. I would miss the high-rpm motor that's come with all of my former Sevens. In lieu of that, I'd pick up loads more grunt down low - those LS motors are like diesels down there! I would also sense, at all times, the presence of an additional 400 to 500 pounds weight. It would not be quite the flea-flick driving experience of a lightweight Seven - more like an improved version of my Alfa 4C.

 

As a long time WCM owner that just recently picked up a V8 Stalker I can say that the power more than makes up for the weight. At ~1600 lbs it still feels significantly lighter than my 2000 lb Elise and is much faster in every gear. I haven't taken the Stalker to the track yet but if road performance is any indication it will destroy the lap times I set in both the Elise and the WCM. Personally I think the choice of tire width and compound makes a bigger difference to the handling of a Seven than 100-200 pounds of weight.

[Anaximander]

As a long time WCM owner that just recently picked up a V8 Stalker I can say that the power more than makes up for the weight. At ~1600 lbs it still feels significantly lighter than my 2000 lb Elise and is much faster in every gear. I haven't taken the Stalker to the track yet but if road performance is any indication it will destroy the lap times I set in both the Elise and the WCM. Personally I think the choice of tire width and compound makes a bigger difference to the handling of a Seven than 100-200 pounds of weight.

 

rnr, You ended up with one very beautiful Storker! I don't road race but have some limited experience with autocrossing Stalkers. My first Stalker was an LT1 equipped prototype M-Spec that I purchased from Scott Minehart of Brunton Auto. I had racing slicks for that car and that was my first autocross car. Then purchased a NA V6 Classic Stalker and then my third Stalker was a supercharged L32 that I had racing slicks/wheels to do autocross and the thing really performed. My latest Storker is a XL with the LS3/480 and I absolutely LOVE the torque and horsepower that it provides for my 1860 pound car. Your chassis being #159, you have one of the very last Classic Stalkers that was ever produced. The upgrades you have with the new Wilwoods and other mods to your LS3-engined car make your car a veritable hot rod. Shane knows all about them because he can run a track or fly through the air with the greatest of ease:rofl:

 

Glen Minehart, Scott's father can suggest all kinds of wheels/tires for track use. They have a Brunton AXR along with their son Jason and have tried all kinds of tires and compounds for the best performance. In fact, most of the family will be out in Lincoln, Nebraska this coming week running at the SCCA National Solo Championships.

[Kitcat]

To save Croc the bother, I will add that wheel diameter can affect the delicate handling balance of a Caterham, with 13" apparently being optimal (tho greatly limiting available tire choice).

 

I agree it is odd to claim 1600 lbs is heavy. Most car forum's discussions on weight involve getting below 3,000lbs! For them, 1,600lbs would be unimaginable.

 

Tom Carlin replaced the former Birkin dealer, mentioned above. I think Tom has built some turbo Birkins with hp in the mid 300's? AFAIK, they weigh in around 1,350 lbs and have a fully independent front and rear suspension, unlike the standard Cat SV.

[Anaximander]

rnr, I was talking with Glen Minehart this afternoon discussing the impending hurricane that is putting Florida in the crosshairs.

 

Glen recommended that your car would do best with 13" wheels front and back with the front tires being about 9" wide and 20-22" in diameter. For the rears, he suggested 13" wheels that are 10" wide with the diameter no greater than 22" lest the tires hit the fenders. He suggested considering altering the ride height if necessary. He mentioned Avons or Hoosiers work well with the Stalkers and John Berget is a great source for gently used race tires. You can see John's website at:

https://www.jbracingtires.net/ Hope that helps get you started in the right direction so to speak.

[Croc]

The difference between 15 inch wheels and 13 inch wheels is extraordinary when compared back to back on track. I use 15 for road for ground clearance and the 13s just are amazing for pick up on track. Happy to demonstrate to disbelievers. :rofl:

[Bruce K]

I am blown away by all the useful info provided by forum members on my recently-posted questions.

 

Croc - (Regarding a Stalker V8) the EMCO sequential costs a very affordable $28,296 (!!!), so is not an appropriate option. The Quaife, however, costs less than half at $11,541. It comes stock with stronger straight-cut gears, like the Quaife 5 speed I enjoyed in a BDP-equipped Caterham several years ago. That car's very quick and positive shifting action was a blast, and I enjoyed the "supercharger whine" from the straight-cut gears. Additionally, the Quaife comes standard with dogs for positive gear engagement. A Quaife sequential, plus a dry sump (about $3,000) would be affordable upgrades that would improve performance (trannie) and longevity (dry sump).

 

Kitkat - Dick Brink is still a dealer, to my knowledge, unless he has been displaced and is now "unofficial". What gives on this score? He has Birkins for sale at this moment. Regarding Stalker weight, I thought they were a minimum of 1,700 lbs with LS power. However, the Inet disagrees, and your 1,600 pound figure appears everywhere. Is that figure of 1,600 pounds a reasonable anticipation for a complete LS Stalker?

 

Anyone - If I go with a Stalker, I have been advised by one owner to convert to 10" rear wheels to reduce spin. He claims the 9" fronts are adequate, but the car needs more rear rubber, and wheel to control it. Do you agree?

 

Anyone - I live in Michigan, and need some warmth to extend the driving season. My Sevens have all had heaters (the two Caterhams) or, in the case of my WCM S2K, I cut square holes in the aluminum shrouding of the trans tunnel, one on each side. I used velcro-equipped plexiglass plates, and positioned them over the holes. Completely covered, no heat. Partially to fully UNcovered, plenty of heat boiled up. I believe I was told by Glenn Minehart that heaters were not an option, but I will verify that. If not an option, what do you think about the square holes on either side of the trans tunnel???

 

Thanks for all the great input!

[rnr]

Glen recommended that your car would do best with 13" wheels front and back with the front tires being about 9" wide and 20-22" in diameter. For the rears, he suggested 13" wheels that are 10" wide with the diameter no greater than 22" lest the tires hit the fenders. He suggested considering altering the ride height if necessary. He mentioned Avons or Hoosiers work well with the Stalkers and John Berget is a great source for gently used race tires. You can see John's website at:

https://www.jbracingtires.net/ Hope that helps get you started in the right direction so to speak.

 

Thanks for the info Bob. Right now I am still working through the California registration process but I will hopefully get to figure out the tire situation early next year once all the paperwork is done.

[Bruce K]

Nonsense - ponies shit and gallop and kick you when you least expect! More than one trick in that! :jester:

 

 

Yes - exactly. No Caterham or Birkin I know of reaches 150mph on a track though. Best I saw was when I drove the 620R at 146mph at both Estoril and Hungaroring circuits although I suspect I did it late in the day at Portimao but I was shitting myself as I came off the cliff into the high speed understeer drop onto the main straight and not paying attention to the speedo or rev counter. They all have big ass F1 long straights. In theory my CSR does 155mph at vMax but I am yet to take it to Bonneville to see if I can find it after a 5 mile run up.

 

 

 

 

Just call him Shane. I find I giggle when I use an inoffensive name. He's not that scary then!

 

 

 

 

Some user on this forum did a Birkin one - I think it was TheGoat or Goat. A search here might surface the name for you to PM and inquire. I vaguely recall an intercooler being used but cannot recall where installed.

 

On a positive note, the Caterham 620R installation has been quite reliable on track based on UK owners I know who have done 6000 track only miles.

 

 

 

 

Yes you move from a fully loaded 1250-1300lbs to a 1750lbs Stalker. While not totally cruise ship like in handling, a Stalker does have more weight/inertia in being thrown around. A Caterham is quicker in the corners but the stalker walks...errr....runs away out of a corner. Torque is your friend there. Not much between them under brakes though. It depends on your local circuit. A tight circuit like you get in the UK suits a Caterham well. A big open USA circuit suits a Corvette/Mustang/Heifer/etc which only go fast in a straight line then wobble around corners.

 

 

 

 

The Sadev tops out around 350-400hp from memory. But there are sequential transmission options for the LS engine

 

Option 1

https://shop.quaife.co.uk/chevrolet-chevy-ls-six-speed-rear-wheel-drive-sequential-gearbox

 

This is T5 sized so should fit a Stalker gearbox tunnel.

 

Option 2

https://www.lgmotorsports.com/corvette-sequential-transmission.html

 

Both can be combined with paddleshifters.

 

Option 3

Put a hydramatic in it and just pretend it is sequential.

 

 

Anything can be done with money and a shit eating grin.

 

 

 

 

 

The 620R is RHD only. Cannot be LHD as the supercharger packaging gets in the way. You can order a 620R SV with the wider cockpit and bigger footwell. I had no problems driving that version in Spain and Portugal. I drove the S3 version in Hungary but did not notice the footwell issue as I never used the clutch after getting rolling and just left foot braked to avoid confusion.

 

Cheers

mike

 

Croc - (Regarding a Stalker V8) the EMCO sequential costs a very affordable $28,296 (!!!), so is not an appropriate option. The Quaife, however, costs less than half at $11,541. It comes stock with stronger straight-cut gears, like the Quaife 5 speed I enjoyed in a BDP-equipped Caterham several years ago. That car's very quick and positive shifting action was a blast, and I enjoyed the "supercharger whine" from the straight-cut gears. Additionally, the Quaife comes standard with dogs for positive gear engagement. A Quaife sequential, plus a dry sump (about $3,000) would be affordable upgrades that would improve performance (trannie) and longevity (dry sump).

[Croc]

Croc - (Regarding a Stalker V8) the EMCO sequential costs a very affordable $28,296 (!!!), so is not an appropriate option.

 

I know its expensive but its so sexy looking and no one else in the Stalker community has one. Think how special you would be.

 

 

Additionally, the Quaife comes standard with dogs for positive gear engagement. A Quaife sequential, plus a dry sump (about $3,000) would be affordable upgrades that would improve performance (trannie) and longevity (dry sump).

 

This was the realistic suggestion for sequential. I also feel confident it will fit. Just because no one has done it with a Stalker does not stop you from pushing the envelope. Definitely believe in dry sumps when having fun on track.

 

 

Dick Brink is still a dealer, to my knowledge, unless he has been displaced and is now "unofficial". What gives on this score? He has Birkins for sale at this moment.

 

Just checked his website and no Birkins for sale with him currently. Also reading the linked page below, he is not an official dealer in the eyes of Birkin USA. Official representation in USA and Canada is Tom Carlin through the following website.

https://birkindirect-usa.com/about-us/

 

I am sure Birkin USA can explain status if you ask them.

 

 

If I go with a Stalker, I have been advised by one owner to convert to 10" rear wheels to reduce spin. He claims the 9" fronts are adequate, but the car needs more rear rubber, and wheel to control it. Do you agree?

 

Hell yes. I have 9 inch rubber on the back of my Caterham and can make it go all squirrelly like the best. Add an LS engine and 1 extra inch of rubber on the rear end and you can take off and fly...literally. I suspect it probably needs even wider with that hp output and no aero.

 

 

 

Regarding Stalker weight, I thought they were a minimum of 1,700 lbs with LS power. However, the Inet disagrees, and your 1,600 pound figure appears everywhere. Is that figure of 1,600 pounds a reasonable anticipation for a complete LS Stalker?

 

Difference is likely dry versus wet gas tanks. I always had it in my mind as 1750lb full tanks for the old V6SC Stalker and 1700plus change lbs for the LS version with full tanks. I could be wrong - an owner should chime in here with how much they weigh. If you are keen then you can check with Glen at Stalker since that number will be sensitive to final spec.

 

 

I believe I was told by Glenn Minehart that heaters were not an option, but I will verify that. If not an option, what do you think about the square holes on either side of the trans tunnel???

 

You can buy small, light heater kits for any type of kit car here - surely one of those will work. If Caterham, Birkin and Westfield can make them work in a smaller package why can't Stalker. I bet they can.

https://www.carbuildersolutions.com/uk/search?adv=false&cid=0&mid=0&vid=0&q=heater&sid=false&isc=true&orderBy=0

 

The square hole solution would also work.

 

cheers

mike

Edited August 30, 2019 by Croc

[xcarguy]

Hell yes. I have 9 inch rubber on the back of my Caterham and can make it go all squirrelly like the best. Add an LS engine and 1 extra inch of rubber on the rear end and you can take off and fly...literally. I suspect it probably needs even wider with that hp output and no aero.

 

I run 12” rubber in the rear for track use (9.5 for the street....don’t drive stupid). Even with the 12” rubber, I spun the tires last year during events at VIR (spun at 100mph coming out of turn 17 and onto the straight...cold track and cold tires) and Barber (80mph between turns 13 and 14...warm track, tires and topping the hill).

 

Difference is likely dry versus wet gas tanks. I always had it in my mind as 1750lb full tanks for the old V6SC Stalker and 1700plus change lbs for the LS version with full tanks. I could be wrong - an owner should chime in here with how much they weigh. If you are keen then you can check with Glen at Stalker since that number will be sensitive to final spec.

 

Page 35, post 344: http://www.usa7s.net/vb/showthread.php?7852-Stalker-85-headed-back-to-Arkansas/page35

 

....from that /page/post...I finally got around to corner weighting the car. While still considered a heavy weight by most 7-ish standards, the car (with full fuel, 9qts of oil, Accusump/oil cooler system, track tire/wheel package and wings...no driver) weighed in at 1674lbs. To put that in perspective, that’s 76lbs less than it weighed pre-accident. Weight shedding came about via a slightly different chassis design, a definitely different cage design, an even lighter-weight battery, a rethinking of how I fastened the car back together and what materials were used, and, a little weight reduction here and there via trimming of components and the use of various sizes of Milwaukee hole saws.

[Croc]

That weight makes sense Shane since you did a ton (pun intended :jester:) of work to lighten the car...although it left the runway and got airborne just fine at its old heavier weight. :seeya:

[xcarguy]

That weight makes sense Shane since you did a ton (pun intended :jester:) of work to lighten the car...although it left the runway and got airborne just fine at its old heavier weight.

 

.....Yes it did! :jester:

[Bruce K]

xcarguy - what size front wheels for the track? what sizes rubber for both street and track? Thanks!

 

I run 12” rubber in the rear for track use (9.5 for the street....don’t drive stupid). Even with the 12” rubber, I spun the tires last year during events at VIR (spun at 100mph coming out of turn 17 and onto the straight...cold track and cold tires) and Barber (80mph between turns 13 and 14...warm track, tires and topping the hill).

 

 

 

Page 35, post 344: http://www.usa7s.net/vb/showthread.php?7852-Stalker-85-headed-back-to-Arkansas/page35

 

....from that /page/post...I finally got around to corner weighting the car. While still considered a heavy weight by most 7-ish standards, the car (with full fuel, 9qts of oil, Accusump/oil cooler system, track tire/wheel package and wings...no driver) weighed in at 1674lbs. To put that in perspective, that’s 76lbs less than it weighed pre-accident. Weight shedding came about via a slightly different chassis design, a definitely different cage design, an even lighter-weight battery, a rethinking of how I fastened the car back together and what materials were used, and, a little weight reduction here and there via trimming of components and the use of various sizes of Milwaukee hole saws.

[xcarguy]

xcarguy - what size front wheels for the track? what sizes rubber for both street and track? Thanks!

 

 

Street:

Front-225/45ZR-17 TOYO PROXES R1R

Rear-255/40ZR-17 TOYO PROXES R1R

Track:

Rear-11x23.5x16 (A11 Compound) 12x16 wheel

Front-10x23.5x16 (A11 Compound)10x16 wheel

[Anaximander]

Street:

Front-225/45ZR-17 TOYO PROXES R1R

Rear-255/40ZR-17 TOYO PROXES R1R

Track:

Rear-11x23.5x16 (A11 Compound) 12x16 wheel

Front-10x23.5x16 (A11 Compound)10x16 wheel

 

Shane, I am glad that you weighed in on the selection of wheels/tires for the Classic Stalkers. Glenn is used to autox and does not have any personal experience running on a track. RNR needs to heed your advice except for any "flying instructions" you might offer .