Choice of Fords?

[seabbot]

First, hello to USA7 friends on the East coast, apologies for not being in touch since moving to SoCal and I hope you all have fun in July: For those of you that have not participated in the NJMP July event it’s a terrific few days with very nice people.

 

Second, after much hemming and hawing I've decided to part with my 98' S3 Caterham. It doesn't get used enough, and following an injury a couple of years ago I really can't drive it as quickly as I would like (p.s. for those of you that I last saw at NMJP in 2016, I recovered well, but my right leg isn't quite as useful as it once was).

 

The choice of Fords question in the title of this thread is really a poll of which "old-school" Ford engine do folks on the forum think is most interesting engine to sell the car with. The car is currently set up with a BGH Geartech close ratio box and Titan LSD and those won't change, but I do have a number of nicely set up engines sitting in my garage, any one of which could go with the car.

 

Ford lumps to choose from:

 

• 1700cc Caterham supersprint wetsump, standard Caterham internals, kent 244 cam ~135bhp @ 6200rpm - original to the car and currently in the garage
  
• 1640cc Lotus wetsump twincam (stromberg head) standard internals ~115bhp @ 5900 rpm - currently in the garage
  
• 1740cc BDA drysump, built on a new Ford Motorsport block to a high road going spec., i.e. easily driveable on 93 octane and happy to run on 110, steel internals, balanced to 9000rpm etc. 190bhp @t 8600rpm - currently in the car
  

 

Obviously there is a bit of cost and performance difference between the various lumps but I was wondering it there are any strong opinions on preferences when I come to sell the car.

Cheers,

Stewart

[yellowss7]

Hi Stewart! :seeya: Glad to hear you are doing well. We miss you at our event. For those of you who haven't seen this car, it is a beauty and Stewart is a good driver and kept it on the track, unlike some of our brethren. :toetap05: Stewart is also very mechanically gifted, so the car always ran well. It's a very nice car. IMO. Someone should jump on this one.

 

Take care Stewart. Tom

[xcarguy]

Stewart,

 

Glad to hear recovery went well. Sorry to hear you are selling your Cat. My vote is for the the current lump; 1740cc BDA. Can you posts some pics of the car?

[bball7754]

Stewart- glad to hear you’re recovered, but sorry you’re selling the Seven.

 

PM sent.

 

Steve

[Croc]

Hey Stewart

 

Good to hear from you.

 

My logic is to evaluate what the price differential would be. A BDA of that spec is seemingly around $8k+ on Ebay these days. So if a Caterham thats very attractive and well sorted like yours with the regular cross flow is marketable at around $23k (give or take) then would a BDA engine version bring $31-33k? To me it feels slightly rich and not realistic for a sale price? That said BDA Caterhams have advertised around there in the past so its ballpark - just a harder sale to find the right buyer wanting to pay that much more. A Twink engine standalone is about $7k last time I looked at Ebay. $30k makes no sense for a sale price when a twink is packaged put into a Caterham.

 

I would stick the standard crossflow into the Caterham and sell it that way then sell the other engines off separately. There is a much bigger market for BDAs and Twinks within the broader Lotus community so they should be more readily saleable at a greater price.

 

I think Steve wants a BDA for his Caterham anyway.

 

Cheers

mike

[Croc]

Then again if you leave the BDA in it and sell it to me for $23k, I will give you cash! :jester:

[Kitcat]

Great to hear from you Stewart! After you disappeared I feared the worse regarding your (non-Caterham related) injury recovery.

 

For those that don't know this car, as others have said, its is a beauty, with clams, Brooklands and an intriguing shade of blue. And with the BDA, it's as strong as most Zetecs and many Duratecs.

 

I have to agree with Croc, I suspect the value will not reflect the excellent engine. Those who appreciate how special it makes this Caterham are few in number (add me and Croc to the list, but we have Caterhams already:)). On the other hand, your time pulling and replacing the engine has to be factored in, as well as making the X-flow work properly once back in.

 

Maybe put it up for sale here for a firm price ($28-32K) and see? And offer a big discount if the buyer wants the X-flow. Sadly, the first thing the X-flow buyer will want to do is add power....

[bball7754]

I think Steve wants a BDA for his Caterham anyway.

 

Guilty as charged.

 

Steve

[escondidoron]

 

For those that don't know this car, as others have said, its is a beauty, with clams, Brooklands and an intriguing shade of blue. And with the BDA, it's as strong as most Zetecs and many Duratecs.

 

 

Concur. Stewart's Cat is indeed a looker:

 

And often admired by passers by:

 

Stewart:

 

I didn't get an opportunity to thank you for the beverage on Saturday. So thanks!

 

Please touch base with me this week if you have time.

[seabbot]

Huge thanks for the compliments on the Caterham, to be honest it's not quite as pristine as when I bought it but it has served me (and occasionally Colleen) well.

Also thanks for the suggestions on the Ford lumps, the original Crossflow and the BDA can be swapped in less than a day (yup - ask me why I know) so it wouldn't be too much of an issue to swap back to the crossflow. Also, thanks to Ron for posting pictures of the car during an extremely rare wet day in San Diego. It just happened to be a lotus marque day at a local "cars and coffee" so Colleen and I took the Elan (it finally got finished ) and the Caterham along to show off the cars in their "natural weather conditions".

I've added a few more pictures to this post and will get all of the details together and take some more pictures over the weekend and post in the for sale section.http://www.usa7s.net/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=14063&stc=1http://www.usa7s.net/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=14064&stc=1http://www.usa7s.net/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=14067&stc=1http://www.usa7s.net/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=14069&stc=1

[Kitcat]

Apparently I imagined the clams:). Hey 2 out of 3 isn't bad when it comes to my "memory"....

[John B]

That's a sweet Caterham!

I'd be most interested in the BDA myself if I were looking.

One thing, I think Croc's logic includes the Car, the BDA and the Crossflow. I'd subtract the cost of the crossflow ($3k?) from those numbers.

 

Good luck!

[FE07]

Stewart-

Glad to hear your progressing and sorry about your limited use of the Caterham. It certainly is a pretty car.

 

Gotta agree with Croc that you'd probably get more $ out of it selling the car with the crossflow in it and then the BDA seperately.

 

I'd consider posting the BDA for sale on Apexspeed. Always a Chevron owner or some vintage formula car/sports racer looking for one. SVRA website, Vintage Motorsports etc...

 

Jim A

[seabbot]

Thanks to everybody for suggestions and comments and thanks to Escondidoron for posting the pictures of the Caterham in it’s natural, if somewhat unusual, setting of a damp SoCal day. I’ll get some more pictures taken and post on the for sale section in the near future.

[Kitcat]

I see that Croc’s for sale thread lists a BDR powered ‘ 94 Caterham for $37,750. It’s not as nice as yours Stewart, so maybe that is a rough guide to your car’s value with the current engine? It is an asking price, and is listed by Wire Wheel, a huge dealer, so not saying that’s what you could get, just a rough starting point.

[seabbot]

Thanks Kitcat,

The same seller has a couple of Caterhams for sale at the moment. I'm trying to get some time to finish up the video footage of mine before I advertise it. Ironically it's actually had a bit more use recently, having been out few times with my GoPro strapped to various parts of the car.

The advertised BDR suggests it's a "detuned" BDA. I'm not quite sure what that is, I would classify mine as a bit warmer than Caterham's original "BDR" spec (I believe Caterham ran standard bottom ends on their original "BD" engines) and I'm intending to advertise mine at around $34k

There is a useful resource for Cosworth history here https://historicmotorsportcentral.com/2014/04/16/the-cosworth-bd-engine/

[Kitcat]

Sure would love to hear your engine at 8600 rpm's:)!

If you have dyno hp sheet I'd post it as part of sales photos. If you don't, maybe have it tested? Is the 190 hp at the rear wheels or at the flywheel?

The fascinating link to Cosworth shows the BDA was a 1600 cc engine making 120 hp. Yours is 1734 cc and makes 190 hp. Is it a souped up BDA, or a later BD version?

Does it have dry sump or Accusump?

I think the $34K price would make it pretty tempting.

Edited May 21, 2018 by Kitcat

[seabbot]

If I had remembered to switch on the external microphone the last time I was out I would have had the BD howl on video. Interestingly I put the GoPro on the back of my wife’s RAV4, with just it’s internal mic, while I captured some passing shots and it actually worked quite well (not much wind noise and picked up the Caterham passing at ~5000rpm).

i have quicksilver’s Dyno sheets for the BD and it was 190 at the flywheel.

 

it’s a dry sump without an accusump but the capillary oil pressure gauge has never indicated an issue cornering and I have a 20psi low oil pressure sensor wired to a very bright external warning light for track-day peace of mind.