Zetec 2.0

[JohnCh]

Brightonuk: Don't worry about John - he's afflicted living 3 hours behind the civilized world plus its just that time of the month when one of his cars has gone belly up in the garage and oozed some noxious fluid all over his mirror polished white garage floor.

 

John: Was it the Porker or the Lotus this time?

 

I knew I could count on you to back me up. And it was the Elan this time. Last weekend I almost turned it into a 4-wheeled candle.

 

The price for that Jegs SVT engine is much less than I expected. Isn't there a visual difference between the SVT and regular Zetec cam covers? Just thinking of ways to narrow down the engine version if no one knows how to decipher the block number.

 

-John

[Brightonuk]

 

The link you provided is for a short block - so no sump and no head. Not necessarily bad but it explains why it is cheap.

 

Also has a long block and other engine options (Duratec)

 

Zetec Complete Long Block $3750.00

 

*Complete means Head /Cams to Oil Pan*

9.6 to 12-1 Compression

Forged Pistons

Eagle Rods

Balanced

New Rings

New Rod & Main Bearings

ARP Head and Main Studs

Valve Job & Clearances set

Machine work

Gaskets

High Volume Oil Pump

Timing belt and idler

 

I would hope any parts that I will need that can be reused I can scavenge off of the old one.

As I am assuming whatever damage I may have caused will be covered in the above Long Block so any additional parts should be clear of damage

 

I got the bore scope and am about to go look but honestly I will not know what I am looking for unless I see a gaping hole in the piston

 

I will try to make a shot vid from the scope But Harbour Freight @ 50 bucks don't expect a hollywood production

[JohnCh]

Look for something sitting on the top of a piston, scrapes/gouges on the cylinder walls, and if any of the valves are bent or tweaked. As you look at the valves within a cylinder or go cylinder to cylinder, treat this like a game of "one of these things is not like the others." If you find something, you probably found the problem. BTW don't forget to check the sparkplugs as per my earlier post. If one of those is damaged or really oily, that's likely the cylinder with the damage.

 

-John

[Croc]

I would hope any parts that I will need that can be reused I can scavenge off of the old one.

As I am assuming whatever damage I may have caused will be covered in the above Long Block so any additional parts should be clear of damage

 

I got the bore scope and am about to go look but honestly I will not know what I am looking for unless I see a gaping hole in the piston

 

I will try to make a shot vid from the scope But Harbour Freight @ 50 bucks don't expect a hollywood production

 

 

Apologies - I misread the ad and did not read the long block.

 

Gaping holes in pistons are quite possible - look at my earlier picture example. You are looking for divots in the piston or bore walls, possibly holes, stray bits of metal, maybe mice? John's suggestions are all good pointers.

 

Oh come on...you mean stuff from Hardly Frighten is not quality? :rofl:

[Croc]

I knew I could count on you to back me up. And it was the Elan this time. Last weekend I almost turned it into a 4-wheeled candle.

 

Yes there have been times when I could have cheerfully set fire to one of my cars from it misbehaving. Glad you restrained yourself.

[Brightonuk]

I check the plugs no oil but dusting around 3 and 4 cylinder plugs (closest to the bulkhead)

Here is the bore scope vid.

#1 looks scored

2 looks OK

3 & 4 have issues with what looks like a dusting of some flakes.

Again I don't really know what I am looking for other than a obvious hole and the scope is kind of big so I can't get a shot of the walls (That what you get for 50 bucks)

 

https://youtu.be/Xmd3LyZRGUg

 

Bottom line is I am fearing the worst and will find out next week when I take it to the shop and have them take a look.

I am resigned to the fact I need to look at a rebuild $8K+ from Quicksilver or from what I can see a better choice financially go for the Zetec Long block @ $3750 from Focus Power and if the head has no issues reuse that and opt for a short block.

 

If someone would be so kind and look at this site and tell me which option to go for as it seems I have choices SVT Duratec etc?

 

Thanks guys for all the advice.

 

Steve

 

[Croc]

Worked quite well. It was hard to see but what I saw:

 

#1 Looks fine

#2 Could not see much but I thought I may be seeing a metal fatigue crack on the piston top lower down on last image? Could be dreaming? Could be a dried oil mark. Likely all good and its me being confused by the video.

#3 The dandruff is probably metal flakes or dried coolant. Given you did not have head gasket symptoms before this exercise, my money is on metal flakes (they seem to reflect/shiny in the video). No chunks so I suspect you swallowed an exhaust valve since your intake valves seemed to be present from your earlier check through the throttle bodies. It could be in the sump or more likely disappeared out the exhaust. Could not ascertain piston tops in this cylinder due to the shiny stuff.

#4 Similar to #3 but no where near as bad. Wonder if the flakes were transported from #3 via the oil galleys? Trying to remember the oil circulation cycle of a zetec. If it was then the bottom end bearings are toast.

 

Piston tops did not look too bad.

 

Hope everyone else weighs in on that video.

 

 

If I was you...breaking it down into steps, I would:

 

1) pull the sump off and see what bits are lurking in there. Easy enough for you to do. I bet you find shavings around the sump magnet but no bits.

2) Get it to a mechanic to pull the head and inspect for certain. If confirmed then put it back together for convenience and pull the engine out.

3) Work out why it failed. Oil pump flow inadequate? Sump baffling? Were you autocrossing? Track? You may need to buy an accusump/baffled raceline sump/dry sump to protect yourself depending on how it was caused. None of us really know this.

4) Define the purpose of your Caterham - casual drives? Autocross? Track junky? Racing? Determine whether your proposed solution will work. e.g. racing/autocross might justify a dry sump. Track HPDE should be fine with a Raceline baffled sump pan and a accusump. Casual drives will be fine with the crate solution. Again, none of us really know this.

5) Buy the Focus Power engine and drop it in. I like it has a high flow oil pump - critical in Zetecs. Swap over peripherals. Make other mods as suitable for your intended usage. Check clutch and related bearings for possible replacement at the same time. You might as well....ask me how I know...

6) Save the old engine as is, and one day when you have money and you decide you want more power, send it to Quicksilver for big hp. Once built, swap it over and sell the Focus Power engine on Ebay.

 

The step up to a SVT is not really worth it in the long run. Its not that big...maybe 20hp at the flywheel realistically (ignore the Caterham USA claims of bulk hp from the period). You would need to do dynoing to extract potential and that takes time/cost. I could never tell the difference between my Zetec SVT and basic Zetec when I had them in my yellow and maroon Caterhams. Felt about the same to me - was about a second a lap when tested scientifically. The Quicksilver package was noticeably quicker on track than the SVT cars when I saw them performing back to back.

 

I would not go for Duratec as the change over is more than engine. You need to worry about a new ECu map, dyno tuning, wiring harness, you are creating a new hole in your body (exhaust exits other side). I think you have to change the gearbox input shaft from recollection. Too costly - discard.

 

Your biggest issue is cost so keep the hp demands modest, stay with the standard zetec with throttle bodies, make sure it is a quality crate build with some warranty (unlikely but try), pay for a good tune and you will be bck on the road quicker and with less cost.

 

There are some seriously knowledgeable folks on this forum - I hope they chime in with their experience so you get a range of views to evaluate.

Edited March 10, 2019 by Croc

[Brightonuk]

Thanks Croc Focus Power is my #1 option thus far unless I get additional feedback.

[Vovchandr]

I agree with Croc

 

I actually own a Duratec and a super charger for it but I don't think I'll ever commit to going out the different side, new wiring, new hood new ECU etc.

 

With that said, I also happen to have an M62 if I recall supercharger that I acquired from the previous owner at the time of purchase to use on the Zetec. This is as good a time and place to ask this, but how come you rarely if ever see SC'ed Zetecs? Stock bottom end has got to be able to handle ~5 to 9 psi (guesstimating) for another 50 horse?

 

Shouldn't be that much different than 620R setup other than maybe a tighter fit?

 

This could be a reasonable solution to your problem looking for more HP without a crazy build, OP, if Croc gives it blessing.

[Croc]

... if Croc gives it blessing.

 

LOL :rofl: No chance of that. Priority is to get running reliably again with minimal cost. A potential SC installation is a whole world of new pain. Lets not put Steve through that!

 

Reason you dont see much SC on sevens is packaging - its really tight.

[Kitcat]

As I mentioned in an earlier post, Q-Silver told me a few months ago that they were no longer building the MicaelD spec, high hp Zetec. Instead, they offer just a basic rebuild. AND, anyway, my plain-Jane 170 hp (advertised) stock SVT Zetec was able to keep up w/MichaelD's 220 hp Q-Silver on the straights. So not sure all of those 220 hp were pulling their weight.

 

Of course, there are other factors, I have a Caterham 6 sp, his car was essentially a 4sp (w/5th being overdrive) and perhaps it had different final drive too? I dont have headlights which helps areo, ditto cycle fenders vs. MD's clams. So, many variables. Still, one would think that those alleged 50 extra hp would show up on long straights.

 

I can add that pulling a lightly used engine from a junked Focus isn't necessarily a great solution. I did that when I blew my Duratec in my Birkin and the replacement engine also had issues, including internal rust from sitting for months (years?).

Edited March 11, 2019 by Kitcat

[Brightonuk]

I can't justify $8k on a rebuild period! So as good as they may be QS is out

Focus Power in NC seems the way to go 60% less for what looks like on paper a solid result.

 

Had a long chat with the owner and he went through various scenarios basically saying reuse as much as they can, head, pistons (I have a spare set) ARP bolts re con the connecting rods etc. Crank and bearings are wrecked but replacement is a couple of hundred bucks.

He was reducing the cost as best he could based on assumptions which to me was a refreshing change than a $3k minimum I heard from QS just to tear the engine down.

 

He did say I gotta keep that 11.1 compression or lose a ton of power and octane booster only works in the tank for a few hours and that could of been the constant knocking I heard and that did not do the engine any favours.

Stick with 100 octane gas.

 

All the help and advice offered here is greatly appreciated (But still nothing on how to explain this to the wife)

 

I will keep you guys informed of what happens and if Focus Power turns out to be the correct choice.

[Vovchandr]

All the help and advice offered here is greatly appreciated (But still nothing on how to explain this to the wife)

 

I will keep you guys informed of what happens and if Focus Power turns out to be the correct choice.

 

In order to give the constructive wife advice we need to address this as systematically as we do everything else.

 

Whats the year/make/model? How often is maintenance done? Is trade in an option or you want to keep this one? When her head gasket blows, is the rebuild more or less expensive than the Zetec?

[Brightonuk]

Censored /Censored/Censored

Not as often as was done in 1984

No Choice

Debatable

[FE07]

Too Funny! Though my wife wouldn't think so.

 

:rofl:

 

Jim

[yellowss7]

I too thought that was a great set of questions from Vovchandr. :smilielol5:

[Brightonuk]

Just in case anyone is looking to spend $$ on a borescope

This one for 9 bucks works great better than the $70 one from HF.

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B078926W9N/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

(To help pay for the rebuild I am now offering High Res Colonoscopies for $59.99)

[Brightonuk]

So it begins and the $$ will start to dwindle.

http://www.usa7s.net/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=15158&stc=1

 

I decided on Road and Race in West Palm Beach for the rebuild as they are the one taking the engine out and sending it across country just did not make sense.

These guys came with good reviews and all they do is build and fix race cars we will see.

I should know by Friday how much damage I did driving it 1/4 mile home after the bearing went south (Should of just called the wife to bring the trailer when I heard the bang)

[Croc]

Look on the bright side - it could be a divorce! They are really expensive!

 

I would not beat yourself up about the 1/4 mile drive home doing more damage. The initial oops noise did everything it needed to guarantee an engine pull down and rebuild.

[d15b7]

I would not beat yourself up about the 1/4 mile drive home doing more damage. The initial oops noise did everything it needed to guarantee an engine pull down and rebuild.

 

yes THIS! that last gentle 1/4 didn't hurt more what was already hurt bad and requiring surgery..