2.0L Duratec Rebuild

[JohnCh]

Thanks Shane. I've updated my post with the new emoticon.

 

-John

[Croc]

the new Bollocks emoticon[ATTACH=CONFIG]17069[/ATTACH]

 

-John

 

 

Can we add that self-portrait of Shane into the standard emoticon kit that this forum gets? It should get frequent use....

[Croc]

I have to admit that yiou have been having a rough (re)build John. I thought a little garden variety 2L duratec....how hard could it be. But this has got more quirks and turns than I ever expected. I did not realize the level of subtle changes to the engine components over the years from the early days of the engine's introduction. After all you were a pioneer in Duratec engines in sevens.

 

I know a good engine builder if you need to admit defeat? :deadhorse:

[JohnCh]

Way too close to the finish line to throw in the towel. I'm not sure I would characterize the build as rough -- a vortex of WTF moments is more appropriate -- although it still has the potential to turn out that way. If that happens, this thread may become the manual for performing an exorcism.

 

The good news is that I went through the timing exercise before calling a halt due to the cam gear issue, and it was looking good. With cams at the baseline setting, the crank rotated without contacting any valves, dial indicator readings were repeatable, and it appears the machine shop located the keyway in the correct position for the crank position sensor. I even found the alignment tool for the latter, which I was sure I had thrown out.

 

-John

[xcarguy]

Thanks Shane. I've updated my post with the new emoticon.

 

-John

 

Glad to help.

 

Can we add that self-portrait of Shane into the standard emoticon kit that this forum gets? It should get frequent use....

 

:cuss:...............................:toetap05:

[JohnCh]

Just got off the phone with Kent. Surprise, surprise, they haven't seen this before. He said the gears are heat treated and sometimes can expand a bit during that process, but not to this degree. He suggested attacking it with sandpaper. I'll give that a try this week and see what happens.

 

-John

[1turbofocus]

I Build dozens of the Duratec engines and never had one issue with the Oil Psi / Hydraulic tensioner and I build D20 for some guys turning the 2.0 8500 rpm

 

Those Adj Cam gears look very cheesy , I use the ones from Massive speed

 

Why are you using a degree wheel , your FAR better off adjust the gears to what the Engine wants on a Chassis Dyno vs what the cams call for , I use to degree but found 2-6 more WHP setting the gears on the dyno every time

 

Great Build tho

 

Tom

[JohnCh]

Good to know you haven't had an issue. SBD Raceline, and Raceco (back when Ammo was still around building Duratecs) all recommend the manual tensioner for engines that spin at high rpms. Outright failures aren't common, but they have seen them, and finding broken teeth in the sump from the plastic ratcheting mechanism is reasonably common. Apparently letting off of the throttle at 7500rpm plus can result in enough chain stretch that the tensioner over tensions the chain resulting in broken teeth or accelerated chain guide wear. It seems like a prudent upgrade.

 

The Kent gears are adjustable in the same sense as the factory units. Unlike the Massive items, they are not marked by degree, which isn't optimal for dyno adjustments. However, I'm fine losing that feature to have that specific cam grind. These things are always a compromise.

 

I agree about tuning on the dyno, but unfortunately I don't have one in my garage. When I asked my wife about buying one, she said something about already having too many tools and that a dyno won't make the kitchen function any better. Hard to argue with that logic. The degree wheel is to ensure that the cams are at a known and safe starting point until I am able to get the car to a dyno facility. Given the current situation out here, I doubt that will happen for quite a while.

 

Thanks,

John

[Pokey]

Good to know you haven't had an issue. SBD Raceline, and Raceco (back when Ammo was still around building Duratecs) all recommend the manual tensioner for engines that spin at high rpms. Outright failures aren't common, but they have seen them, and finding broken teeth in the sump from the plastic ratcheting mechanism is reasonably common. Apparently letting off of the throttle at 7500rpm plus can result in enough chain stretch that the tensioner over tensions the chain resulting in broken teeth or accelerated chain guide wear. It seems like a prudent upgrade.

 

The Kent gears are adjustable in the same sense as the factory units. Unlike the Massive items, they are not marked by degree, which isn't optimal for dyno adjustments. However, I'm fine losing that feature to have that specific cam grind. These things are always a compromise.

 

I agree about tuning on the dyno, but unfortunately I don't have one in my garage. When I asked my wife about buying one, she said something about already having too many tools and that a dyno won't make the kitchen function any better. Hard to argue with that logic. The degree wheel is to ensure that the cams are at a known and safe starting point until I am able to get the car to a dyno facility. Given the current situation out here, I doubt that will happen for quite a while.

 

Thanks,

John

 

John, I'm sure your wife loves you dearly and it isn't her fault that you neglected to mention that the dyno was for your safety. My garage is the safest room in our house, full of every manner of safety-related tools (toys).

[JohnCh]

Between the Westfield and the Elan, it's hard for my wife to take my car-related safety talk seriously.

 

Yesterday afternoon I wrapped a piece of 600 grit sandpaper around a large shoulder bolt, slipped it through the hole in the cam gear and rolled it around the bench for a while. Worked great and that gear is now a slip fit on the cam. I'll remove the other gear and tackle it today or tomorrow.

 

-John

[Pokey]

Between the Westfield and the Elan, it's hard for my wife to take my car-related safety talk seriously.

 

Yesterday afternoon I wrapped a piece of 600 grit sandpaper around a large shoulder bolt, slipped it through the hole in the cam gear and rolled it around the bench for a while. Worked great and that gear is now a slip fit on the cam. I'll remove the other gear and tackle it today or tomorrow.

 

-John

 

Let me guess, you needed the Elan because the Westfield wasn't safe in the wet...

 

I'd call it a perfect fit if the gears slide on after a little polish. Best slow things down or you will wrap it up before I do.

[JohnCh]

You're close Greg. I bought the Elan because I've wanted one since I was a kid, almost bought one instead of the Westfield, and wanted something I could use when rain was possible. In fact, that's why I went for the FHC rather than the convertible. Far more practical! From a safety perspective though... Although the Westfield looks far scarier to the casual observer because it's...well, there's not much there, and the Elan looks like a real car, looks are deceiving. The Westfield has steel in key places like the sides, and between the front wheels and the occupants, whereas the Elan is just thin fiberglass everywhere but the central backbone. It is fun though.

 

I took care of the other gear yesterday. Only took a few minutes since this time I knew what I was doing. Hopefully the engine will be fully assembled this weekend and ready to drop in the car. Of course I fully expect to uncover a host of other things I forgot to do during this long layover that will add to the timetable. You may still beat me!

 

-John

[JohnCh]

I have what could be a very long update, but I'll spare everyone the drivel, keep it short, and cut right to the chase. After a significant amount of frustration setting, then resetting cam timing with no consistency, I finally discovered the root cause. The cheap dial indicator and magnetic base set up I bought back in 2007 is randomly inaccurate and is at it's limits working with the angles required by a DOHC engine.

 

After wasting parts of the last two weekends questioning my competence and sanity (full disclosure: the jury is still out) I went through a methodical series of measurements with the engine fasteners torqued and confirmed the inaccuracy. The primary culprit is the dial indicator which has significant lateral play that impacts repeatability. The magnetic base dial holder appears stable, but the arms are barely long enough to work with the Duratec and are fiddly to adjust. Although this isn't directly causing the repeatability issues, it makes the lather, rinse, repeat aspect of setting cam timing incredibly frustrating. This doesn't help.

 

Lesson learned. Don't by a cheap $32 set up from Summit Racing with good reviews and expect it to work well. After a little research I've ordered a Noga magnetic base with fine adjustable arms, and a Mitutoyo dial indicator. The saga continues.

 

 

-John

[ashyers]

John,

I'm curious, what's the distance from the pan rail of the block to the outer surface of the oil sump (fins). I'm wondering how it compares to the dry sump on my car. I'm always paranoid about grounding out!

 

Andy

[JohnCh]

It's a touch under 2-3/4". The dry sump definitely makes a difference at the front of the engine, but unless you also switch to the smaller bellhousing that area becomes the low point. I considered making the switch as part of this rebuild, but by the time I added up the costs for dry sump, tank, plumbing, bellhousing, new flywheel it requires, and the shipping from the UK, then stared blankly at the engine bay trying to figure out how to make it all fit, I decided to save that project for a future upgrade.

 

-John

[JohnCh]

I decided to do a few quick jobs this morning over coffee: attach the block breather cover, install the coolant elbow removed by the machine shop, and install the water pump and factory thermostat housing. When prepping the elbow for the Loctite sealant, I noticed a couple of deep longitudinal scratches on the portion that presses into the block, which must have happened during removal. Unfortunately they are deep enough that I'm not confident they won't lead to coolant seepage, so a new one was ordered. It simply isn't worth the risk given it's an easy to find $10 part.

 

Next, I discovered the new gasket for the thermostat housing is wrong. The shape is correct, but when attempting to press it into the groove, it was clear that it's marginally thicker and the circumference is about 3/16" - 1/4" longer. There was simply no way it would fit. Doing some searches in parts databases, it appears the part number changed for the 2012 model year. Oh well, another part to order.

 

-John

[Pokey]

It's a touch under 2-3/4". The dry sump definitely makes a difference at the front of the engine, but unless you also switch to the smaller bellhousing that area becomes the low point. I considered making the switch as part of this rebuild, but by the time I added up the costs for dry sump, tank, plumbing, bellhousing, new flywheel it requires, and the shipping from the UK, then stared blankly at the engine bay trying to figure out how to make it all fit, I decided to save that project for a future upgrade.

 

-John

 

The bell housing is something that I hadn't considered when ordering the kit with the dry sump. It dangles down there like the lower lip of an open mouth protected only by a wedge. I imagine that there is some gain in clearance compared to having a pan installed but probably not that much.

[JohnCh]

The wet sump is flush with the bottom of the bellhousing, so the delta you have between your dry sump and the bottom of the bellhousing is the clearance you gain up front over the wet sump. The advantage is that a bad hit won't result in a holed sump and the loss of oil in the middle of nowhere (which I've seen happen on USA2005), but as you note, the bellhousing could still take a significant hit if you run over a large rock or speed bump. Not perfect, but still an improvement.

 

-John

[JohnCh]

The Mitutoyo arrived yesterday. The quality and precision is an enormous step up from the cheap Summit item. Think well set up se7en suspension vs. a stock mid '60s American luxury sedan. Yes, they will both go around a corner, but only one has enough additional movement to make the change in direction seem more like a suggestion than a command. I will probably still find a way to screw this up, but I'll need a new scapegoat.

 

 

-John

[JohnCh]

The coolant elbow and thermostat housing gasket arrived today. The latter fit perfectly. The former, not so much. The tolerance for the original elbow is loose enough that I can push it half way into the port above the thermostat housing before needing to apply a lot of force. The new one, however, wasn't going anywhere from the start. This is an issue given the head overhangs the port a little (see photo) meaning one can't bear down from directly overhead. Pulling out the calipers revealed the new elbow is 0.003" wider at the base. Argh. Looking again at the old one, I decided the scratches that led me to purchase the replacement weren't that bad and had a decent shot of working with the help of the Loctite. Given there is a reasonable chance I will need to install a thicker head gasket to reduce the compression ratio (I'm on the edge for local gas) I can redo the elbow then if it is seeping.

 

 

 

-John