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Tipo 184


JeffersonRaley
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Please, please start a build thread in Off Topic when the time comes.  I'm sure a lot of us would love to follow along.  Are you keeping the NB engine stock?  

 

-John

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Very nice, really cool ride. These weigh 700 kg, I wonder where the extra weight is compared to the Cat. (after researching the Alpha 158 weighed 700 kg. so maybe he is keeping the same as original).  Someone built a 1953  Ferrari 500 F1 replica, it is closer in spec to a Caterham or Lotus 7, 540 kg, 2.0 lt. 4 cyl, 180 hp, 4 speed, de dion rear axle., they sold it for $70,000 (a real one is $5.4 million).  small, light, analog = the best rides.

Edited by 924s
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This tipo 184 is a replica of the  1938 Alpha romeo tipo 158 F1 car which  had an interesting history:   

The Alfa Romeo 158/159, also known as the Alfetta (Little Alfa in Italian, is a Grand Prix racing car produced by Italian manufacturer Alfa Romeo. It is one of the most successful racing cars ever produced- the 158 and its derivative, the 159, took 47 wins from 54 Grands Prix entered.

 It was originally developed for the pre-World War II voiturette formula (1937) and has a 1.5-litre straight-8 supercharged engine. Following World War II, the car was eligible for the new Formula One introduced in 1947. In the hands of drivers such as Nino Farina, Juan Manuel Fangio and Luigi Fagioli, it dominated the first two seasons of the World Championship of Drivers.

The first version of this successful racing car, the 158, was made during 1937/1938. The main responsibility for engineering was given to Gioacchino Colombo.

The car's name refers to its 1.5-litre engine and eight cylinders. The voiturette class was for racing cars with 1.5-litre engines, standing in the same relation to the top 'Grand Prix' formula (usually for 3-litre engines) as the Formula Two does to Formula One today. Alfa's 3-litre racing cars in 1938 and 1939 were the Tipo 308, 312 and 316.

The 158 debuted with the works Alfa Corse team at the Coppa Ciano Junior in August 1938 at Livorno, Italy, where Emilio Villoresi took the car's first victory. At that time the 1479.56  cc (58.0 x 70.0 mm) engine produced around 200 bhp (150 kW) at 7000 rpm.[5] with the help of a single-stage Roots blower. More success came at the Coppa Acerbo, Coppa Ciano and Tripoli Grand Prix in May 1940.[6] Soon World War II stopped development of the car for six years. After the war the engine was developed further to push out 254 bhp (189 kW) in 1946.

In 1947, the Alfetta was put back into service. The new rules allowed 1500 cc supercharged and 4500 cc naturally aspirated engines. The 158 was modified again, this time to produce over 300 bhp (220 kW) and was denoted as Tipo 158/47. The car made a tragic debut in the 1948 Swiss Grand Prix where Achille Varzi lost control of his car and was killed. Another loss for the team came in practice for the 1949 Buenos Aires Grand Prix, where Jean-Pierre Wimille was killed in an accident (driving with Simca-Gordini).

In 1950, the 158 was eligible for the new World Championship of Drivers. The car won every race in which it competed during that first season of Formula One; it was incredible that a car which had originated in 1938 was so victorious, most likely because all the other constructors (as few as there were) had less money to build and develop their cars and the Alfa had so much development time. The Alfa Romeo team included talented drivers such as Giuseppe "Nino" Farina and Juan Manuel Fangio, the latter of whom later won the World Drivers' Championship five times.

At the end of the 1950 season, a further updated version known as the 159 was produced, which was used for the 1951 season. This version had reworked rear suspension, the old swing axle was replaced with a De-Dion axle and the engine produced around 420 bhp (313 kW) at 9600 rpm. The 159 had top speed of 305 kilometres per hour (190 mph) and it weighed 710 kilograms (1,570 lb).

Very cool, inline 8 cyl. 1.5 ltr., supercharged, 420 hp. 9600 rpm.

 In order to achieve this power however, the simplistically designed engine was fitted with larger superchargers over time. This fact, combined with the rich mixture required to burn methanol in the engine resulted in extremely poor fuel economy - the 159 achieved 1.5 miles per imperial gallon (190 litres per 100 kilometres; 1.2 miles per US gallon), compared to the Talbot-Lagos of the time, which delivered 9 miles per imperial gallon (31 litres per 100 kilometres; 7.5 miles per US gallon).

 The British Grand Prix at Silverstone was the first Formula One Grand Prix not won by an Alfa primarily because Fangio and Farina both had to stop twice simply to re-fuel their cars – and the Ferrari of José Froilán González did better on fuel and would go on to win the race, with Fangio second. Still, the Alfa had the edge on performance and with wins in Switzerland, France and Spain, Fangio won his first of five championships that year.

 For their second-to-last World Championship race (until 1979), the Italian Grand Prix at Monza, Alfa Romeo introduced a new evolution version known as the 159M, the "M" standing for Maggiorata ("enlarged").

After an unsuccessful bid by Alfa Romeo to obtain government assistance to meet development costs, the team announced their retirement from Grand Prix racing at the end of 1951 (leaving the development of the 2.5-litre Alfa Romeo 160). This, combined with problems for other Formula One teams lead to a decree by the FIA that all Grand Prix races counting towards the World Championship of Drivers in 1952 and 1953 would be for cars complying with Formula Two rather than Formula One.

In 1953 the Ferrari 500 F1 car became dominant, it had closer specs to the future  Lotus 7, 540 kg., 4cyl., 2.0 ltr. engine, 4 speed trans,

Edited by 924s
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Car number 1 sold at auction $100,000  In these pictures it shows Alpha Romeo logos on the front and side, in other photos of the car the logos are missing.  Ferrari and Porsche are aggressive in suing over use of their name, there are many examples, CMC a kit car manufacturer in Florida had legal issues, one example was their Porsche 959 replica kit car, Porsche sued them.  All the replica Cobras say Cobra on them, 

The conflicts between Carroll Shelby and various kit car makers are well known and sometimes seem never-ending. Massachusetts-based Factory Five Racing has been at the forefront of the lawsuits with Shelby, and the two have been in battling it out in the courtroom for a decade. The initial lawsuit, filed in the year 2000, resulted in a settlement that barred Factory Five from using the terms "Cobra, 427 S/C, Shelby, Shelby Cobra, Daytona Coupe and Daytona Coupe Cobra" on any of their products.    

 

Super 7......... over 160 companies have offered replicas or Seven-type cars over the years. Many have been challenged over the years by the UK rights-holder, Caterham.  Such cars are often referred to as "sevenesque"  or simply a "seven" or "se7en". Sometimes they are also called clubmans or "locost"
How many other court cases were there?  Are Cobra owners asked why they have Cobra on their car but it isn't a Ford cobra, it just looks like one.  some owners with 7 clones/replicas are confronted if they have a lotus logo on their car, Cobra replica owners not so much.  Tim Dutton made 8,000 Lotus 7 clones, he put his own name on them and did not market them as a lotus 7's. Caterham makes legal continuations of the Lotus 7, but there is no Lotus name on their cars.  it is probably safer to make a Alpha copy rather then a Ferrari or Porsche copy, maybe less chance of a lawsuit.   

 

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Re: building a 1938 Alpha Romeo tipo 158 F1 clone/replica..... I own a Lotus 7 clone now, it would be easier to make, buy or have fabricated a 1953 Ferrari 500 F1 car body or a 1938 Alpha 158 F1 body and stick it on my car. instant increase in value. My car at least has a pedigree engine. It is powered by a Fiat Lancia 4 cyl. 2 ltr., dual overheads camshaft designed by Lampredi. lampredi worked for Ferrari designing engines, he later on worked for Fiat, Lancia designing their engines.   This famous lampredi 4 cylinder engine was used in cars built by Lotus, Morgan, Fiat, Lancia, Alpha Romeo, (maybe the 158 clone should have a Lampredi engine, better pedigree, probably for costs the Miata engine is better). That Lampredi 4 cyl. was in more World Rally championship winners then any other engine. In the Lancia delta the maximum output they got from the engine was 1000 hp it had a supercharger and a turbo.  The 1953 ferrari 500 F1 car had a Lampredi designed dual overhead camshaft 4 cyl. 2.0 ltr. NA engine.    Lampredi 4 cyl. powered Lancia 037 rally car.......

 

Edited by 924s
add info re: 1938 alpha tipo 184 clone build
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On 6/11/2021 at 12:36 PM, JohnCh said:

Please, please start a build thread in Off Topic when the time comes.  I'm sure a lot of us would love to follow along.  Are you keeping the NB engine stock?  

 

-John

Yes, will keep stock.  The NB engine isn't a great one to modify unless you turbo it, and that would be tough to fit.  Too bad it doesn't use an NC donor.

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On 6/11/2021 at 10:45 PM, 924s said:

Very nice, really cool ride. These weigh 700 kg, I wonder where the extra weight is compared to the Cat. (after researching the Alpha 158 weighed 700 kg. so maybe he is keeping the same as original).  Someone built a 1953  Ferrari 500 F1 replica, it is closer in spec to a Caterham or Lotus 7, 540 kg, 2.0 lt. 4 cyl, 180 hp, 4 speed, de dion rear axle., they sold it for $70,000 (a real one is $5.4 million).  small, light, analog = the best rides.

 

Yeah, I'm not sure why it is such a porker either.  But the Seven is my fast car.  I'm building this one for reliability and lack of drama.

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On 6/11/2021 at 3:38 PM, Croc said:

I love it!  Build thread please.  Tempted to buy one myself....  :classic_cool:

 

I really need to set up a time lapse camera in my garage.  I always forget to take pictures or document my builds well. 

20210316_162843.jpg

20210318_133341.jpg

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