General Zetec powered Caterhams/7's discussion

[Vovchandr]

I'm going to comb through some dyno sheets that I can see on auction sites and post them here for references

 

Power comes from a Ford Zetec 2.0-liter DOHC inline-four that was reportedly rebuilt in 2019 by Road-N-Race Automotive of Riviera Beach, Florida, with a 2.2L Zetec bottom end and a ported cylinder head. Other modifications are said to include:

• 85mm JE pistons
• ACL rod bearings
• TWM throttle bodies
• Kent Cams camshafts
• Oversized valves
• ARP head studs
• Fidanza aluminum flywheel
• Upgraded ECU with a programable MicroSquirt system
• Replacement coil packs and injectors

 

~188hp peak @7400rpm 

~140hp @ 5252

 

 

Edited May 9, 2023 by Vovchandr

[Vovchandr]

SVT at the crank with and without cams

 

~220 peak at 7100

~170 @ 5252

 

[das76]

@Vovchandr ^^^ that is my car now

[Vovchandr]

A 2.0-liter Ford Zetec twin-cam inline-four was built and installed by the seller in 2002 at approximately 13.5k miles. The fuel-injected engine features TWM individual throttle bodies, an ITG air filter, Kent camshafts, and an Electromotive WinTEC II engine-management system. Dynamometer paperwork shows that the car produced 178 horsepower and 138 lb-ft of torque at the wheels in 2002

 

178hp @ 7100

~130hp @ 5252

 

[Vovchandr]

The 2.0-liter SVT Zetec in-line four was reportedly installed at 15k miles and is equipped with a Pectel T6 ECU and Jenvey throttle bodies as well as a Raceline water rail, adjustable camshaft gears, a variable-camshaft-timing delete kit, and a Raceline wet sump kit.

 

~175hp @ 7000

~132hp @ 5252

 

[Vovchandr]

The 2.0-liter Ford Zetec inline-four was built by Quicksilver RacEngines of Frederick, Maryland, and a dynamometer graph is pictured in the gallery. Modifications include the following:

• Ford Racing cylinder head
• Brian Crower piston rods
• TWM fuel injection
• Raceline water rail
• Pectel T2 ECU

~230hp @ 7500

~ cross point @ 5252??? I think the scale on this graph is quite off.... the lines aren't crossing @ 5252 which is impossible more like 6750 as the cross point

 

Edited May 11, 2023 by Vovchandr

[Vovchandr]

1 hour ago, das76 said:

@Vovchandr ^^^ that is my car now

 

Double checked and found your car. But yeah that printout has been used more than once. Not sure if you printed your own but the sale thread for your car has this dyno sheet without a page number in the top right

 

I keep coming across the same dyno printout being used by multiple sellers..

 

Here is another one

 

For a more or less stock SVT

 

 

I'd love to see what you actually put down on a dyno on that SVT

Edited May 9, 2023 by Vovchandr

[Vovchandr]

Zetec with Lumenition  ITB's

 

150hp @ 7000

~120 hp @ 5252

 

[Vovchandr]

The car is powered by a Ford Zetec 2.0-liter engine that was built by Hasselgren Engineering in 2012 and is equipped with dry-sump lubrication, a ported cylinder head, Comp Cams XR camshafts, ARP head studs, billet I-beam connecting rods, a direct-injected intake manifold, and a programable Cosworth Pectel ECU

 

208hp @ 7100

~175 @ 5252

 

[das76]

@Vovchandr correct. As i was reading through paperwork i realized that wasn't a dyno chart of my exact car, but it was provided by Caterham USA to the buyer of what a SVT Zetec would put out - but I don't have a reason to believe that it's terribly inaccurate. I am also curious what my car puts out and will get it on a dyno one day. But what I do know is that regardless it's plenty fast for me. And James raced it successfully for many years and kicked @$$ in it. https://www.youtube.com/@jamesthunderroadstergtr/videos  (scroll down past his current vids with his new racecar)

Edited May 9, 2023 by das76

[fastg]

The print from Quicksilver RacEngines is highly suspect. It does not cross at 5252, and torque is plummeting while HP is going up! 

 

I think if possible you note if it's an engine dyno or a chassis dyno, makes a big difference. 

 

All interesting stuff. 

 

Just in case there is anyone that does not know about Dynos. Dynamometer only measures Torque, HP is calculated from the Torque. 

 

Mathematically, horsepower equals torque multiplied by rpm. H = T x rpm/5252, where H is horsepower, T is pound-feet, rpm is how fast the engine is spinning, and 5252 is a constant that makes the units jibe. So, to make more power an engine needs to generate more torque, operate at higher rpm, or both.

 

Graham 

[CarlB]

Horsepower and torque do not always cross at 5252. Go google the power curve of any high-performance high RPM motorcycle engine.

[CarlB]

When you are considering engines, I would suggest you look at the average power over the power band you need. The dyno sheet here are hard to read because of the size. I was trying to read the Quicksilver one because of the 5252 comment, but I want to point out the engine only has about 1000 RPM between peak torque and peak power. I have no idea what the engine was going to be used for, but it would be a dog on a racetrack or the street. It might work in a hydroplane or a land speed record car.  

[fastg]

 

[MV8]

The one I'd most like to drive is the stock or stage one for most area under the curve with no spikes or holes.

 

I spent some time as a motorcycle mech and had to drive everything I worked on. I much preferred the standard class bikes to the racers. They tend to surge with light to medium throttle and were more difficult to drive normally.

[inchoate]

2 hours ago, MV8 said:

The one I'd most like to drive is the stock or stage one for most area under the curve with no spikes or holes.

 

I spent some time as a motorcycle mech and had to drive everything I worked on. I much preferred the standard class bikes to the racers. They tend to surge with light to medium throttle and were more difficult to drive normally.

 

This.  People can get too caught up in the numbers and end up with a car or bike that's just no fun to drive.  Years ago I had a '67 Cooper S that made great numbers on the dyno but was miserable to drive.  I ditched the weber downdraft and put some SUs on it, it made less peak power but the area under the curve was worlds better.  Made it just lovely to zip around in.

[KnifeySpoony]

3 hours ago, CarlB said:

Horsepower and torque do not always cross at 5252. Go google the power curve of any high-performance high RPM motorcycle engine.

They do actually, assuming you're looking at hp and lb ft. 

[Vovchandr]

3 hours ago, CarlB said:

Horsepower and torque do not always cross at 5252. Go google the power curve of any high-performance high RPM motorcycle engine.

 

They absolutely always must as the math that is used to calculate hp from the tq dictates it as such. 

[CarlB]

Stupid of me. I wasn't thinking. I was thinking about torque peak. 

[Vovchandr]

Came across this graph on old California Dyno thread

 

Very interesting to see a bunch of different Zetecs (and 2 Duratecs, 1 being a 2.3) layed against one another with different setups. Picture was very low resolution so I did the best I could with deciphering it.

 

All but a few like the yllow one are very close to each other. Yellow being a stock ZX3 motor with no ITB's or Cams. The difference is pretty clear.

 

 

 

This is a detailed map for the orange "MoPho" one above. About 170hp