mcneil141 Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Hello folks, Newbie here, so take it easy on me:) I am looking for some advice. After searching the 7 forums and driving a Caterham Fireblade, I have decided my next fun car would be a LSIS. I would use the car primarily as a street car, with a autocrossing in mind, with a few track test days sprinkled in. Comfort and amenities are secondary; the 7 needs to be a performer. At first, I considered building my own frame, but with my work schedule, it would take me several years before I could finish. My dream purchase would be a BEC that runs well, but needs some love. (rewiring, paint, finishing, setup, etc.) Maybe even a well built Locost. It would not be a larger frame, and be fairly inexpensive. Ha ha. Here are the options I am considering. 1. Purchase a running car in need of TLC. There seems to be several Birkins and even some Caterhams available. I have found a "cheap" birkin at a lower price that would allow me to spend some money updating the car. Has a solid axle, however. 2. Purchase a kit. I don't want to engineer a car from the ground up. The Deman and Stalker look great, with the Deman slightly ahead because of the Hayabusa option. How long would it take to assemble a car, at a leisurely pace? 3. Purchase a used Caterham at the lower end of the spectrum. IE, no DeDion. Westfield? 4. The Superformance S1 seems like a great car, but is slightly over my budget, and I wonder if I would be happy with it's performance. I realize this is a wide range of cars. My background is in road racing, with several years spent prepping my own car, and eventually opening my own shop (not my daily grind, though). Thanks in advance! Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al N. Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 First, I would look through the classified here.... You don't state a price range, that would help....there is a sub $20k Cat for sale at Sevens and Elans right now. And have you read this thread yet? If you had to get your first Seven all over again... I think that's got some great advice for prospective buyers, from people who went through the same process you are going through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellowss7 Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Just a note, if you're planning on autoxing in an SCCA event. Motorcycle engined cars are not allowed in D or E MOD, where the other 7's will complete. You will be moved into B or A mod Running against race cars. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnCh Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 This site details a Westfield Megabusa build, so it will give you an idea of what is involved if you start with a Westfield kit. The site is architected as a blog, so the link will take you to the last entry. Just use the navigation at the top to start at page 1 and work your way forward. Lot's of good information. -John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southwind25 Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Wow , you sound almost exactly where we were about 5 months back. We are road racers (vintage) as well that wanted a car much like what your wanting. Heres what we decided upon and why: We found (or it found us?) a very low milage, 1999 chassis birkin with 1.6 x-flow. (i think considered series 2) We had the opportunity to drive a Caterham and Birkin both, both awesome cars with the ztech's. OHHhhh niiice!! They both seemed very well sorted out and surprised us in many ways besides the obvious handling and power. We found the Birkin seemed to have some cleaner design elements, but not by much. And the caterham might be a bit more robust in it's smaller details. We are somewhat traditionalists so the general concepts they held to...good and bad..appealed to us as well. We still like the aluminum over tube chassis. Yes the birkin has a solid rear axle, but it didnt seem to make a "significant" diffrence...(wish it was IRS though.) As well, we wish ours had the ztech..BUT since budget was a main concern, that was not to be. The xflow so far does a happy job...but whats better with these cars..ALL of them..is you can come in at an entry level, thrash them around a bit.. The x-flow gets out of it's own way very nicely..but dont expect the big performance here. Just big fun. It seems as if you are paying a bit for the nose badge on a caterham. But you can probably get specialty parts for it easier as well. since you have a shop probably not unlike ours..you can upgrade at a later time! you can put about any powerplant in one of these with some imagination (and money) you can go nuts with carbon fiber bits and roll bars and suspension upgrades, gearbox's wheels brakes...whatever...to your wallets desire. if i had my choice, and a bottomless wallet.. a caterham CSR superlight. second choice the new Birkin with IRS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDROCKT Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 I had the notion to do just what you are wanting to do. Back in 2001 I surveyed the market to buy a new Sevenesque toy. When I found Brian Anderson's Ultralite I knew it was for me. The car is totally streetable (though I never got the weather gear); dependable (and powerful) beyond belief with the Honda S2000 drivetrain and the Subaru WRX LSD based IRS sealed the deal. Virtually every part can be easily sourced locally and my tinkering has yet to knacker it up. I have been touring (USA2005 Houston to San Fran) (Ozark 2006) and racing the car every weekend possible ever since. You might want to ask around and see if you can find a used one to fit your budget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBs seven Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Hi Andy I had to jump in here after reading your post. May I start by saying that you have great taste by deciding on one of these crazy little cars , fun starts here ! I think that we may have already communicated once by email ? You refer to Westfield being at the lower end of the spectrum and that is what is bothering me. Westfield are very new to the USA but have been around in the UK for 26 years now and have a fantastic reputation , a huge following and even a race series.In the UK you either own a Westfield or Caterham depending on which you prefer or more importantly in my case (6ft,6ins) fit into. I see that you are in NC and would love for you to see our car which is also currently for sale.The universal first response when people see the car is "wow , fantastic build quality , everything fits so well" Please have a look at Westfields site in england and you can read about Westfields history www.westfield-sportscars.co.uk . Please feel free to call me any time to set up a visit. Doug Beckett 919 219 9470. I can also mail you out a brochure if you like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcneil141 Posted January 31, 2008 Author Share Posted January 31, 2008 Wow, Thanks for the quick responses! I fear that by responding now, it may limit the number of responses, but here goes. Al: I would love to stay under $20K. The thread you referred to is the one that prompted me to post. I'll look up the Cat now. Southwind: I will have a hard time resisting the modifications. I know where I can buy a low priced Birkin that would allow me to spend some money on upgrades. BTW, I will have a chance to drive a CSR with the 260HP engine (Cosworth?) very soon. Rdrockt: The Ultralite is an awesome choice, but one that I figured was way out of my budget. Perhaps I will look around for a used one. DB: I don't think that we have corresponded, but we are not far from each other. Less than a 2 hour drive. I don't consider the Westfield to be low end, I meant purchasing a lower-priced used car (with more miles, older, less equipped). The new cars are out of my budget. What are the opinions of the Superformance? Thanks for the advice, and keep them coming! Andy:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slngsht Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Andy, You are right about saving money for modding... it's the best part :thumbs: There are 2 superformance owners here. Both seem happy. You should PM them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S1Steve Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Andy, www.wirewheel.com has a S1 for sale. Good luck, Steve Novelli Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderbrake Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Andy: Everyone goes through the same questions when they start to think about an LSIS, and rightfully so. Get as many rides as you can. See how you fit in the cars. See the build quality. Experience the performance. Question the owner on his experiences. Think about the provenance of the car. Will you have to have a Lotus or Caterham, or will some of the other LSIS's which are not as true to the exact body shape of the Lotus or Cat keep you happy? A BEC is quite an experience, as the sound they make as the engine winds up is more F1-like than the 4 & 6 cylinder cars, but do not discount the 4's and 6's. On a track day, the lap times are more closely tied to the tires and the driver's abilities, and even more so at an autocross. The same goes for a live axle car vs an IRS. The Ultralites and the Stalkers have been the cars to beat at Run &Gun, one is an IRS and one is a live axle. Cats, birkins, locosts and the such have been highly competitive with crossflows, zetecs and duratecs at events all over the world. All the marques discussed are great cars, and you really can't go wrong with any of them. Your comment on the Ultralite not being affordable may take some more research on your part. They are susbstantially cheaper than a newer Caterham ( of course all the other marques are as well) and in the same general price range as a Stalker, Westfield , Birkin or Deman. Do some shopping, compare the prices. You may well find something in your $20k price range. I believe the Superformance is out of production, as they concentrate on building Cobras. (If this is not correct someone please set me straight) There are some advantages to driveability and reliability that go with the more "stock" engines. The Honda S2000, the Buick/pontiac/chevrolet V6 , and the Zetec are all reliable solid engines, and offer plenty of HP in their"stock" form. ( Yes I know that too much HP is barely enough) If you get near St.Louis, contact me, I will be happy to let you enjoy the Ultralite experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestTexasS2K Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 mcneil I will be selling my Ultralite S2k ( aka Mojo) chassis coming up for sale in about another month or so. We are currently building another chassis for this coming race season. Mojo will pretty much be a roller chassis it will need pedal assy, seats, radiator engine trans. The suspension will be intact probably will include wheels and tires with it as well. You can put the Busa engine in the car if you like. Brian has done several of those in the past. Or put the Honda engine in it. It will be pretty much be wired with lights, fuel cell etc. Havent thought alot about what to sell it for, but it is a good car with no major problems with the chassis or suspension. We were going to refresh it and sell it as a complete runner but we have two cars to build this year and a refresh is unlikely right now. It would be a good canidate for what you are looking for. PM me if you would like what I am thinking for selling price. We are just building a vehicle with a bigger cage for saftey issues is the only reason we are selling MOJO. it is the picture in my Avatar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestTexasS2K Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Mojo is currently in GA and you can go see and ride if you like. The engine in it is a little damaged but it runs good enough to give you an idea of what it is like. It will be making its way back to Tx in the next week or so. PM me if you want to go see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rv-4mike Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 Mcneil, I would take Loren up on his offer of a test driveof Mojo. I went to Texas last March and he let me drive it. That's what sealed the deal for me on an Ultralite kit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solder_guy Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 Mcneil, I would take Loren up on his offer of a test driveof Mojo. I went to Texas last March and he let me drive it. That's what sealed the deal for me on an Ultralite kit. Yeah .. If I didn't already have a Rotus in Atlanta .. I would be looking at Mojo! Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southwind25 Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 The S1 on wirewheel, sounds like a good deal actually, if you enjoy a non traditional "7". gee mine was more than that and all i got was a x-flow powerplant! :yawn: Matter of fact the early birkin they have might have some potential, but i would take a real close look at that first. The series 1 had a few teething problems from what i have heard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcneil141 Posted February 4, 2008 Author Share Posted February 4, 2008 Hello all, Thanks for the continued advice. Powderbrake: Thanks for the invite to drive yours! I have talked to WestTX, and his offer is very interesting... The S1 at Wirewheel is on hold, pending a visit from a buyer. The Birkin may need some TLC, and it is an early car (1984). The problem is that I don't really know what to look for. I am not scared of a project car, or even a restoration, but don't want to make a BIG mistake. Can anyone elaborate on the shortcomings of a series 1 car? TIA, Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solder_guy Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 Can anyone elaborate on the shortcomings of a series 1 car? I have heard of frequent (weekly) repairs .. and cracked frame tubes .. that fail. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbanker Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 Andy, How close are you to VIR? You may want to consider this option to try a SuperStalker at speed. http://www.rent-a-racecar.net/gpage5.html If road racing is your thing, this might be an option to really ring one out. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lotusman1951 Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 :7head: KISS Keep it simple s upid. Avoid RHD cars, 7s are low and you can't pass the typical rolling roadblock with the steering wheel on the wrong side. having owned 7s with 70-240hp most of the thrill is the closeness of the road, the instant steering and the ability to make children of all ages smile. Start at 100hp-get used to it, pass it on to the next newbie when you,if ever, become bored. Some on the list feel like they have alot invested, compared to what? Miatas? These are truly the cheapest, easy to maintain, truly joyous things in the motoring world. Go! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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