ottocycle Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 Hello all, Following in the 15" tires post, what are the best trackday tires I can get for a 14X6 rim? I currently have Falken Azenes 195-60-14 on the car and I do not like them at all. I cannot get any feedback from them. The car just breaks away without any communication. The best way I can describe it is that it makes me think it is like an early Porsche 911, grip and then gone. I purposely went with a narrow tire thinking I could get some heat into it but I think my car is too light for them (1250lbs). I do not care about wet grip and longevity and would be prepared to get a set of track only tires. My problem is that if I change to 13" wheels my gearing will suffer and 15" wheels will interfere with my headlights. I will make that leap if I have to but i wanted to explore my options first. Any ideas???? Dermot Bethesda, MD. Modified Fury/Hayabusa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHKflyer52 Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 Try playing with your tire presure's. I find that I need to run 22psi in the front and 24 or 26psi in the rear depending on the surface. My cars weight is 1249 lbs and I am running Toyo Sprectum Touring Radials P185/70R14 87S on the street and have used them at a couple of auto-x and they seem to work fairly well for me. I find that if I want to brake the rear loose all I have to due is push on the gas and then the fun begins and when it is wet it is a real fun ride if you want to get crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 I don't know your gearing of course, but if you go to 13", you will probably lose around six or eight mph on the top end, I believe, but accelerate slightly more quickly through the gears. And also more than likely you will have slightly less rotating mass, unless you get really heavy wheels. Do you approach redline in your top gear often, where the lost mph will be felt? Otherwise, I don't see a downside to going smaller. It should be noted that I am far from an expert at this kind of thing, but the theory is pretty straightforward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnCh Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 Martin, I'm surprised your car likes such high tire pressures. Usually 16-20psi is considered optimal. Have you experimented with lower pressures? As for tires, Toyo is supposed to launch the R888 in 205/55-14 soon, and still offers the RA-1 in that size. Nitto also offers the NT01 in 205/55-14. Recommended rim width is 5.5"-7.5, so they will work with your 6" rims" -John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbanker Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 Martin, I agree with John on tire pressure. I run 18 PSI all the way around on my 1500# Stalker, 205/50x15, Falken RT-615 street tires. Auto-x I drop down to 13 and 14 PSI on 13" dia. Hoosier slicks. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevet Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 Dermot, I have the same tires, and quite like them (but I do mostly street driving). I run them at 18psi - what pressure are you using? Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHKflyer52 Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 Martin, I'm surprised your car likes such high tire pressures. Usually 16-20psi is considered optimal. Have you experimented with lower pressures? As for tires, Toyo is supposed to launch the R888 in 205/55-14 soon, and still offers the RA-1 in that size. Nitto also offers the NT01 in 205/55-14. Recommended rim width is 5.5"-7.5, so they will work with your 6" rims" -John Hi John an All, I have tried lower pressures and my car seemed to be very twichey when running down the road and felt like it was pulseing when in a turn with lower presure which I figured was just the sidewalls flexing. I also have all my tires siped for better grip which might make a differance I feel for the street. My tires are wearing very well and do not show any sign of uneven wear and after spirited driving show that all the tread surface is being used without rolling onto the sidewalls. Maybe I should check my air gauge to see if it is reading the correct pressure as I use the sameone to check my tire pressures on the 7 all the time and it seems to be constant but with all of you saying that the pressures that I am running seem high I now am woundering and will check my gauge for sure and let you all know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boxologist Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 Kumho v710 for track and autoX. 195 to 225 widths. avoid standing or accumulating water. tirerack. hankook z214. 205 and 225 width. frisby racing tyre. the r888 is available in the same sizes. street tyres will probably only have the rt615 still around in 14". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottocycle Posted February 19, 2008 Author Share Posted February 19, 2008 Thanks guys, Sean, my local track has a long straightway that I am maxed out on by the time I am 3/4 way down, hence my reluctance to loose top end. As far as tire pressures are concerned I have run from 18 psi down to 12 psi (this helped generate some heat but still no feel). My main concern is the lack of feedback. I thought it might have been me (I am new to trackdays) but I took an instructor with me and spun once and he agreed with me over the lack of feedback. I am not looking for the Nth degree of grip, I want a tire that will "talk to me", and to me the Falkens are mute! I know my suspension is not optimized yet but the it should have better feedback than it does. I am looking for some scales and hope to corner weigh the car before the season begins which will help but does not address the main issues. Do any of you autoX or track guys have any ideas? Thanks, Dermot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnCh Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 A couple of notes on feel. Tires can definitely play a role, but don’t discount chassis setup. I am not familiar with the Fisher, but Westfields are notoriously sensitive in this area. Get it wrong and they are pigs. Get it right and they handle very well. My car has been more at the pig end of the spectrum, but I recently discovered some major set up issues that were a combination of some miscommunication with my shop, and my decision to err on the conservative side when it came to camber settings. Having partially addressed the issues (added more negative camber F/R, increased the rear ride height by close to an inch, and softened the front shocks while stiffening the rear), the car is transformed and now handles very, very well. It is a lot more confidence inspiring, has much better turn in, and can take throttle much earlier exiting a corner. Have you synched with the Fisher boards/mailing lists in the UK to see what settings people recommend for the Fury? -John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian7 Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 If as you say, track-day-only tires are ok, then contact Dave Handy at Sasco Sports at VIR; he can set you up with a range of options. Might want to try the Hoosier bias-ply semi-slick tire common to vintage racers. Should have much more "feel" than a DOT radial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHKflyer52 Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 Martin, I'm surprised your car likes such high tire pressures. Usually 16-20psi is considered optimal. Have you experimented with lower pressures? As for tires, Toyo is supposed to launch the R888 in 205/55-14 soon, and still offers the RA-1 in that size. Nitto also offers the NT01 in 205/55-14. Recommended rim width is 5.5"-7.5, so they will work with your 6" rims" -John Hi John an All, I have tried lower pressures and my car seemed to be very twichey when running down the road and felt like it was pulseing when in a turn with lower presure which I figured was just the sidewalls flexing. I also have all my tires siped for better grip which might make a differance I feel for the street. My tires are wearing very well and do not show any sign of uneven wear and after spirited driving show that all the tread surface is being used without rolling onto the sidewalls. Maybe I should check my air gauge to see if it is reading the correct pressure as I use the sameone to check my tire pressures on the 7 all the time and it seems to be constant but with all of you saying that the pressures that I am running seem high I now am woundering and will check my gauge for sure and let you all know. Hi All, Well I checked my gauge and it reads within a quarter pound of pressure when used to check tire pressure. The way I checked this is by using another gauge to verify the tire pressure of four tires and then check those four tires with the gauge that I was questioning. I know that is not very scientific but it is the only way I could figure to check the gauge without incurring any expense to me as the gauge cost less than what it would cost to have it calibrated professionally. I guess my car is just different or should I say I am different.....:crazy: Front tire pressure 21to22psi Rear tire pressure 24to25psi after checking gauge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slomove Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 I tend to agree with Martin. I suppose "optimal" tire pressure depends on tire type (and type os use...). For my ACB10 bias ply track tires I use 17-18psi with good results. I tried to run my previous Bridgestone S03 radial road tires on the track with this low pressure and the result that the side walls rolled off the rim in corners and complete loss of pressure (happened twice until I found out). After increasing to 21-22 psi that problem went away and the tire behaved and wore well. Now I have Yoko ES100 radial road tires and tried the same setup. I get bad wear near the tire walls, especially on the inboard side of the tire. Now I changed the camber to neutral and increased the pressure to 26 psi. Let's see if that helps..... Gert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnCh Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 Interesting to hear you had to increase the tire pressures so much between the S03 and ES100. The lower pressure for the ACB10 for track use makes sense since the tires get pretty hot under those conditions and the tire pressure increases by a larger degree than you would see under general road use. I wonder if part of the difference you are seeing between the S03 and ES100 is that the nature of the sidewalls and tread compounds of each tire is such that the ES100 generates less friction at road speeds, hence needs higher starting (cold) pressures to achieve the same hot pressure? -John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave W Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 I have ES-100s and have settled on 17.5 PSI, down from A/T's that I ran at 19 - 20 PSI. Some of the difference is likely to be the width of the wheel that you are using. But the ES-100s differently has stiffer side walls then my older tires. I'm running between .6-.7 neg camber. Dave W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slomove Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 Interesting to hear you had to increase the tire pressures so much between the S03 and ES100.......John Well, for now this is just an experiment to see if the horrible wear pattern improves (see below). I have no idea if it actually will work. As you can see from the various posts this is not really an exact science. Rather something between solid black magic and slightly superstitious beliefs. The only thing that is less scientific in the Se7en community is engine oil discussions :jester: Gert http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/upload/441905497_RightFront.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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