Deciding between Birkin and Caterham SV

[JeffC]

Hey guys,

 

Last weekend I went to visit Dick Brink at his shop in Arlington. He was so nice and helpful. I spent about four hours at his shop talking cars. We went over just about every detail about the Birkin, we used the his configuration program to price out a car I would like to build, I drove a couple of his Birkins, and he even took me out to lunch!

 

So I am trying to decide between a Birkin and Caterham SV.

 

I like the larger footbox you get with the Caterham SV. I wore Piloti shoes when driving the Birkin, and the footbox was so small I had trouble with my footwork. I suppose if I had some narrower shows, like Pumas, and more time with the car, the small footbox probably won't be so bad.

 

The extra width of the Caterham SV is nice, but the Birkin is not too narrow for me.

 

My problem with both cars is I am staring right at the top of the windshield. That makes it tough to see an approaching stoplight. I'm 6'2" and have a fairly long torso. I understand you can get a floor lowering kit for the Caterham. Does anyone here have that option? How is the floor lowered? Can you do the same thing in a Birkin? Are there other ways to lower yourself in a Birkin?

 

Thanks.

[Ian7]

"How is the floor lowered? Can you do the same thing in a Birkin? Are there other ways to lower yourself in a Birkin?"

 

Depending on your skills, wallet, or both, you can do pretty much anything you want to a space-framed car with alloy skins and floor, especially if you're starting with a naked kit. Move tubes fore and aft a bit, custom bend a floor pan with a pocket under your bum and voila!, lower seat.

[yellowss7]

you could spend some real bucks on the lowered floor option or you can do it on the cheap.

 

I found that pulling the seat bottom out and replacing it with a thin piece of high density foam works quite nicely to lower me so that I can see out the windscreen and keep my helmet below the roll bar. I posted a pic of this on here once before. I'll see if I can find the pic again.

 

Tom

[Davemk1]

I've never been in an SV. I think the added windshield height might be nice at my height (6'4") but I think the added width would be a bit of a bummer. I'm 6'4' and 185 pounds and I fit into my Birkin very well.

 

I installed an Ultrashield race seat and I modified things a bit to get my butt lower in the car. I removed the seat adjustment rails as well as the tubular cross members under the seat so the new seat is directly on the floor of the car. This makes it so I'm looking through the windshield about 1/3 of the way down from the top. It never splits my vision since making the change. I considered dropping the floor but decided against it as I thought the outer sill would dig into my left armpit if the seat was much lower than it is now.

 

I like how narrow the seating area is and how it locates me very well. I don't move around at all and it has a very secure feeling. The foot box is narrow but once I got used to it (as opposed to a 'normal' sedan) I have no trouble at all with the pedals. I wear a size 11 1/2 (Simpson) shoe and I wear driving shoes when I use the car. They've become my favorite shoes and I wear them all the time.

 

So with this seat and the pedal box all the way forward I have just the right amount of leg room and I'm good and low. I used to think that if money was no object that I'd get an SV but after making the changes and enjoying the smallness of the car in it's handling I don't think I'd trade.

 

My 2 cents. Enjoy the process.

 

dave

[JeffC]

Dave- Is the floor sheet metal thick/stiff enough to mount the seat directly to? I mean, does the floor flex at all with the seat mounted to it?

[scannon]

Caterham sells a kit for lowering the floors on either or both sides or you can DIY. The Caterham seats bolt to the floor but there is an ali channel that runs between the front and rear bolts.

 

The butt pocket on a Caterham seat is only about 1.5" thick and it is essentially sitting on the floor although there are seat tracks on the side to allow the seat to move fore and aft.

 

Skip

[Davemk1]

Dave- Is the floor sheet metal thick/stiff enough to mount the seat directly to? I mean, does the floor flex at all with the seat mounted to it?

 

You are correct.... the floor might be considered to be non-structural. My seat sits on the floor but it's mounted on the front edge (under the thighs) and on the back top (between the shoulder blades. So in effect the weight is being carried by those spots and not by the thin alloy floor sheet.

 

dave

[manik]

Lowered floors are standard on all Westfields. Some discussions over on the WSCC forums:

http://boardroom.wscc.co.uk/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=4;t=69376

 

tom

[slngsht]

Dave- Is the floor sheet metal thick/stiff enough to mount the seat directly to? I mean, does the floor flex at all with the seat mounted to it?

I'm not sure how stiff the floor is specifically on a Birkin. My floor easily supports my weight standing up. it's .060 aluminum.

[gjslutz]

I did as Dave did with my ULTRASHIELD seat and pedals. I'm 6'1&1/2" 210 LBS & wear size 12 shoes. With a narrow shoe and the pedals adjusted for me it fits well. I also tried out the SV and it fit with no work at all.

 

Gary

[Al N.]

having met Dave in person on my trip to Montana last summer, I can vouch that he is very tall (though very lean!). If someone of his height can make a Birkin work (and I know he drives the car to auto-xes, not like us trailer queens), then I'm confident that anyone shorter can make it work.

 

In terms of sizing the footbox, I will say that it may be a case of getting used to it. I can't really comment because I'm 5' 8" with 8 shoes. I've driven a Seven in workboots.

 

Although I am a former Caterham owner, I will say that the IRS Birkins look like a great value.

[oilteq]

Believe it or not, the Birkin pedal box is larger now than it was a few years ago. They enlarged it by making the transmission a tighter fit. With the older and smaller pedal box, I used tennis shoes or moccasins for the street. Tennis shoes just require a little twist so you avoid hitting two pedals at once. For autocross, I wore wrestling shoes, which gave me more than enough room.

 

Blaine

[oilteq]

By the way, you can attach the pedal pads to either side of the lever. So, you can pretty much space them out the way you want them.

[11Budlite]

By the way, you can attach the pedal pads to either side of the lever. So, you can pretty much space them out the way you want them.

 

You can also raise and lower the pedals on the lever. I ended up raising the clutch pad up one hole to make it easier to slip my left foot behind the clutch pedal for cruising on the highway.

[gjslutz]

Bruce, I did the same on my clutch pad. it sure is better as there is no room for a dead pedal.

 

Gary

[Davemk1]

Bruce, I did the same on my clutch pad. it sure is better as there is no room for a dead pedal.

 

Gary

 

Likewise...... I raised my clutch pedal pad and moved it to the outside and now my foot easily slips under it while cruising. I also move the gas pedal pad toward the inside and it's plenty comfy with my size 11.5 feet.

 

Dave