Advice needed: is a Seven a good idea for me?

[Aardappel]

Hi everyone,

 

Would love to hear some opinions on my particular situation:

 

Drove a Seven (a Birkin) about 2 years ago, and fell in love with it. At the time it wasn't practical for me to get one, but things have changed (not commuting by car anymore, for one), so I am considering it again.

 

My 2 biggest issues are:

 

1) I am quite tall at 6ft5. Legs aren't a problem (the Birkin I drove didn't even have the pedals in the furthest location, yet it was ok to drive), but my eye-height is right at the top of the windshield. I couldn't decide whether it was easier to look over or under the bar (!). The seat already had very little padding, so I'd either need a custom windshield that's a few inches higher (and maybe also the rollbar), or even better, a custom floor that goes lower than usual. Any info on how easy this would be, and cost associated greatly appreciated.

 

2) I am not mechanically inclined. While I understand more about how cars function than your average driver, I've never done any work on any cars I've owned myself. I don't have my own garage (it will be parked in a parking garage) and I don't have the time for it either. As such, I will be dependent on having a good mechanic somewhere local (SF / Bay Area) that can take care of any and all work for me. Without such a person, a Seven will be too impractical for me. Any pointers to reliable people welcome.

 

It's not sure what Seven exactly I would get, but a Birkin sounds nice, not sure if I am ready for the Caterham premium. Something relatively basic (and thus reliable) would be fine with me, I am specifically NOT looking for top performance and a gazillion upgrades, but more for a package that will allow me to enjoy the awesome handling of a good Seven on the twisty roads around the bay area. It'll be used mostly for day trips and maybe to get groceries occasionally (yes, it will be my only car May take it to the track at some point but that's not a priority.

 

If after reading the above you think that my situation is just not very ideal for a Seven, feel free to suggest a better alternative for someone who is out to get the rawest, most direct handling experience possible (on public roads). An obvious one is an Elise, but I am not sure if the difference with my current car (a Cayman S) is big enough to warrant the switch. Then there's the usual Miata/FR-S/BR-Z/S2000/MR-2 options, but most of those I don't believe will be much of an improvement, only different.

[yellowss7]

Have you ever tried to get into a seven with the top up? Are you a former gymnast?:smilielol5: That alone might be a deal breaker for an everyday car.

 

Blubarixax is a few inches taller and has a lowerd floor and tall roll cage in his Caterham SV and fits fine. So it is doable. But if you have a taller rollbar built it may not fit with the top up.

 

You must be Hardcore.

 

tom

[supersportsp]

The lack of mechanical inclination would be my biggest concern. I don't do all the work on my car, but I do quite a bit of it. These things require a lot more care and fiddling than any regular production car. I know of only one person who daily drives their car, and he is not 6'5" and they have another regular car.

 

Even a pro-built Caterham is going to require more maintenance in 10k miles than your Cayman S would require in 150k miles.

 

Also, good luck driving one with the top up at 6'5". You have 3" on me and I never drive mine with the top on.

 

Just being realistic with my response, not negative toward your purchase decision.

[anthonyseven]

You'd probably fit in a Stalker just fine.

[powderbrake]

Switch from a Porsche Cayman to a Seven?

 

Only if you love doing work on cars, don't mind the great difficulty of entering it with the top in place, the noisy ride, and all the little quirks that make a seven a seven..... etc......etc........etc.......

 

You already own an awesome car for the twisty roads, and I assume it's reliable..... are you a masochist?

[Aardappel]

Thanks for the responses! Let me be clear to everyone: though this would be my only car, it would NOT be an every day car. I would use it most twice a week, like a sunday drive and maybe 1 trip around town. I use public transport most of the time. So a little unpracticality doesn't phaze me.

 

yellowss7: hadn't thought of that. I had certainly planned to only use it when chances of rain are near 0, but yes, should be able to drive it with the top up in case of emergency. I guess lowering the floor would be the best option, I'll have to find out how much that costs.

 

supersportsp: thanks for the honest feedback, I need that. Not a daily driver, but yes, if it would require mechanical fiddling constantly then that wouldn't be very practical for me, as it would need to go to the "shop" all the time.

 

anthonyseven: I heard the stalker isn't quite as close to the original 7 as a caterham or birkin... though if it is a lot more practical for me that could be a compelling argument. Is the Stalker considered the roomiest 7?

 

powderbrake: I don't mind some inconveniences. I'm in a situation where I can own a car, but I don't need one for anything practical. But yes, I don't work on cars, so it may be out of my reach for now. The cayman is of course a blast on twisties, but I've had it for 4+ years, and feel like a change.. if I decide against a 7, I'll probably end up getting an Elise or something else crazy just for the experience.

[rnr]

I'd suggest trying some of the other Sevens as well (Ultralite, Stalker, etc...) as they all have very different personalities. I wouldn't worry too much about a roof - there are 4 Ultralites in the Bay Area and none of us have roofs and 3 of us run brooklands screens. PM me if you'd like to get a ride in the my Ultralite any time.

 

Finding a reliable person to work on the Seven can be hard and after a few years I have basically given up on going to people for work and do as much of it myself as possible. Plus jim_rankin on this forum lives 15 minutes away from my house and as a fellow Ultralite owner has helped me out with many fixes

 

As for the Elise it is significantly different to the Cayman and I know 3 people that either owned both simultaneously or switched to the Elise from a Cayman. Much more of a momentum car that the Cayman and much rawer. You can easily use it every day if needed and I have put 67k miles on mine as a daily driver. There are also two excellent independant mechanics here who work on Elises which will make maintenance very easy.

[snookwheel]

A Seven as an only vehicle would be a challenge for us, but we don't have a robust public transit system in our area. Even so, our Stalker gets driven a few times a week mostly just for fun. It does have a bit more room than some of the other 7esc options out there, and I can say that maintenance has been close to zero. I did replace the rear brake cylinders a couple years ago... cost under $10 per side. We run a lot of Autocross events which does tend to increase our tire cost! Sit in a few different types, look at performance and cost of ownership, then pick one you like and have a blast!

 

Scott

[scannon]

In addition to the issues addressed above, I would be very concerned if the only place to park my Seven was in a parking garage. The temptation for vandalism, theft and just plain climbing in to try it on for size by anyone who has access to the garage would be a deal breaker for me.

[coffee break]

Insurance should be in the consideration with respect to where it's parked. Some insurers require a locked garage.

[xcarguy]

Something to think about. Several ‘car guys’ I know in the Little Rock area keep their cars at a mini storage facility. Another fellow Seven owner I know is co-owner with another automotive enthusiast in a building in an industrial area where they store and work on their cars (he lives in a high rise with garage parking only). There are several reasons for storing a car off property: no adequate storage at the Ponderosa; the insurance company requires that a‘specialty car’ be stored in an enclosed structure separate from the house (garage/shop not attached-not available); and gated security (in the case of a mini storage facility), just to list a few.

 

If it’s an affordable option, keep the ‘all weather’ Cayman, purchase a Seven and keep it off property. When you feel the urge to get some wind in your hair, go get the Seven out and take it for a blat . . . But there’s still the issue of maintenance; and maintenance will be a part of Seven ownership. :rofl:

Edited April 9, 2013 by xcarguy

[rnr]

I would be very concerned if the only place to park my Seven was in a parking garage. The temptation for vandalism, theft and just plain climbing in to try it on for size by anyone who has access to the garage would be a deal breaker for me.

 

+1. I didnt notice the lack of a garage in the first post.

[rikker]

Where do you live?

The climate will affect you a lot.

[Aardappel]

rnr: that's very generous of you.. I will certainly pm you, trying a different 7 would help a lot in deciding I am sure. I guess with the brooklands screen you always look over, which means you always wear sunglasses/goggles or helmet? I've driven an Elise only briefly, and while a lot of fun, the difference in "rawness" between it and the Cayman seemed a lot smaller than between it and the 7, but I hope I am wrong.

 

snookwheel: good to hear! I guess these cars could be reliable because they're so simple in design, yet possibly also less reliable because they're individually produced.

 

scannon: this particular garage is managed by valets only (yes, welcome to SF), so not too worried about vandalism etc, but still not ideal relying on them to handle the car.

 

coffee break: good point.. is this to insure it for this kind of car (kit car?). would insurance generally be a lot more expensive than a normal road car of equivalent cost?

[scannon]

The valets will be test driving your car behind your back. Expect donuts and damage. I would NEVER let anyone drive my Seven without me being in the passenger seat and a trusted friend in the driver seat. Not even to park the car.

[rnr]

I guess with the brooklands screen you always look over, which means you always wear sunglasses/goggles or helmet? I've driven an Elise only briefly, and while a lot of fun, the difference in "rawness" between it and the Cayman seemed a lot smaller than between it and the 7, but I hope I am wrong.

I always wear a helmet as the wheels can kick up little pebbles. At the very least I would wear ballistic glasses to protect the eyes.

The Elise is a definitely in between the Cayman and the Seven in terms of rawness but as a result it is also much more livable.

 

scannon: this particular garage is managed by valets only (yes, welcome to SF), so not too worried about vandalism etc, but still not ideal relying on them to handle the car.

I personally wouldnt trust a valet both in terms of joy riding plus to be able to handle a high hp Seven. Also many of our cars have odd starting procedures depending on who built them - mine has no key and you have the steering wheel off to get in and out.

 

coffee break: good point.. is this to insure it for this kind of car (kit car?). would insurance generally be a lot more expensive than a normal road car of equivalent cost?

Collector car insurance like Hagerty is significantly cheaper that regular insurance but you must have another car as your daily driver.

[centerfireman]

Depending on where in the Bay Area you live, I would highly recommend Rich Kamp at Sonoma Raceway (the old Sears Point) for an excellent resource for information, repairs and maintenance (he restores Lotuses, builds Caterham kits, etc.). I used a Seven as a daily driver for 6 years (when I was young and dumb!), so it can be done, but the concerns already expressed about weather protection and lack of an enclosed garage are certainly things to think about. Owning and driving a Seven is not a rational decision, so looking for rational reasons to own one is futile!! Often, after one's first test-drive, rationality goes by the wayside and you just look for a chance to own one...

[blubarisax]

One drive and you will throw caution to the wind!

[danilo]

Bought my First Lotus 7 in 74, a Series 3. First thing apparent is that the windshield frame ..is.. in one's eyes.

Slouching or sitting bolt upright are the only two possibles.

As mentioned; getting in out with top in place is a hands and knees adventure.

Not much fun in the rain... Seriously!

Note that these things Aquaplane at legal urban speeds.. 'mostly' due to light weight.

Noise also becomes a problem as well. The exhaust, invariably some laughably loud can (makes one mo' attractive to wimmin :-) emptying a foot or two from ones ear IS a genuine problem.

Having said that they are fun/exhilarating.. no arguements possible there.

Telligly though it was funderstood, even back then that average tenure/ownership was quite short. Recently read somewhere that typically 18 months is the median interval.

One other thing that will likely Wrankle here:-)

Buy the genuine article: Lotus Or Caterham.. No substitutes.

They Are superior (spare the flames) and as result have genuine resale advantage.

[Kitcat]

I agree that a test drive is on order. You mite be surprised at how different (for better AND worse) it is than you are expecting. If none are available, ride a motorcycle: the two experiences are similar, from a heat, noise (dis)comfort, exhilration, acceleration, visibilty perspective.

 

Daily driver: sure, if you want this more than anything. Kinda like using a steak knife to eat peas. But, your publc transportation system will do most of the heavy lifting on a day to day basis so you are really talking about a weekend car.

 

Caterham only? I have owned two of them and a Birkin and driven and seen most others. Keep an open mind, there are many reasons to own ''the real thing" and many not to. They do hold value well but buy-in is much steeper. And all suffer a huge depreciation hit between new and used, so buying used can be a $ saver.

 

My Caterham insurance is same $ as my other cars all thru State Farm. But, it is based on not exceeding 5K miles a year, premium is adjusted upwards after that.

Edited April 10, 2013 by Kitcat