So, where are pro & con

[s2k7]

xxx

Edited January 24, 2014 by s2k7

[bigdog]

The bureaucrats in the government have never ever been able to run anything properly, fairly, Without mountains of red tape nor on budget. Why did the American people think all of a sudden they (bureaucrats) should try to run health care. You want to know why? There were enough poor people that heard the word free. That they were able to swing the election.

[slngsht]

Doesn't it speak for itself? :rofl:

 

I'd have a conversation with whoever wants to have it, but someone will get here and blow a gasket.

[Croc]

All I will say is that if the government cannot efficiently run a country then what hope do they have in establishing and running a mere website!

 

:leaving:

[xcarguy]

Obama care; the very term is an oxymoron. :rofl:

[nick47]

To be fair, the government has plenty of websites that work just fine. But this was too big and too visible. And too lucrative. It brought back memories of the California DMV fiasco 25 years ago, a big project to overhaul their computer systems. I was in the business at the time and everyone was telling us to go to Sacramento. It was like the second Gold Rush. I knew a lot of people who joined the project as contractors, and it drew mostly the worst of the worst. It was doomed from the start. $80 million later they threw in the towel.

 

Not saying that's what happened with the ACA website, and the website isn't Obamacare, but it doesn't bode well.

[locost7018]

The Obamacare website is now up. Simply click on the link below, then on the “apply now” button and you’re in. Give it a try! You can see how they've improved it without having to sign up for anything.

 

 

 

http://rexharrisonshat.com/healthcare/

[HOTTTCAR]

Is Obama care affecting your personal or family health care in any noticeable way?

 

For us not yet.

But we are on a much loved single payer goverment plan called medicare that has so far covered all of our medical bills....with a small supplemental.

Gale

Edited November 20, 2013 by HOTTTCAR

[bigdog]

The Obamacare website is now up. Simply click on the link below, then on the “apply now” button and you’re in. Give it a try! You can see how they've improved it without having to sign up for anything.

 

 

 

http://rexharrisonshat.com/healthcare/

 

Brilliant! That was just like chasing a chicken around the farm.

[jimrankin]

The biggest problem with a national health care system in the US is that it was started way too late. If it had been implemented right after WW2 it would be the "norm" here as it is, and successfully, in many industrialized countries. WW2 veterans were promised "lifetime healthcare" because when they were enlisted or drafted there was no "end date", it was for the duration of the war. At the end of the war this promise, that most vets didn't even know they were entitled to, was switched over to the VA system. A big opportunity was missed at that point as we had a surplus of government employees and the medical corporations and insurance companies hadn't taken over the healthcare system.

Hillary Clinton was trying to get a system on the table when the country was running at a budget surplus and gave up because it was lobbied out of any chance of going forward by "for profit" healthcare and party politics, and that was even before Bill blew it.

The majority of people covered by a healthcare plan in this country have it through their employer. Unfortunately, the majority of employees work for companies that do not provide that opportunity.

Here lies the problem. Try to find a health care plan on your own that won't break your budget or exempt covering anything related to existing conditions, such as a member of your family having had an asthma attack or high blood pressure. Most of them also base their part of the "coverage" on the gross hospital bill. They pay, lets say, 80% of the gross bill. you pay the other 20%. Any relatively minor hospital stay is at least $100,000.00 (more like $200K here in the bay area), your still out $20,000.00, more than most working families can afford. And by the way, the health care plan you had then knocks down the hospital bill to what they "allow", and minus your $20,000.00 they will in most cases pay less than you did.

If you don't have anything to risk, like a home or a 401K why buy healthcare insurance, since you can't be (at least here in California) refused treatment and the hospitals don't waste their time trying to get blood out of a turnip. On the other hand, if you have something they will find it and take it, no question about it.

The affordable health care plan will hopefully allow people with no means of buying private coverage, due either to cost or exempting existing conditions the opportunity to become covered.

Something to think about. I owned a union employee business for 30+ years and when I sold it I was paying right at $10.00 per hour for the health care portion of their benefits. Yes, $400.00 per week, $20,000.00 per year, not something the average non-covered normal working family can afford. What portion of that went to cover the cost to hospitals for the "non-covered, non-paying patient I don't know. Maybe if the majority of non-covered patients slowly become covered by this system the cost of coverage by businesses will decrease, improving the ability of covered companies to compete with companies who don't provide coverage to their employees.

Get party politics out of it, or better, get both sides involved in making it work, because what we had wasn't working for way too many hard working moderate/middle income people.

[nick47]

IMO the problem with health care in this country is that too many people who aren't care givers are making too much money off of it. Now they've managed to suck even more money into the system. It's politics, power, and money under the guise of altruism. I just dont think health care reform is ever going to happen here.

[coffee break]

I asked a retired doctor I know about this (ACA). Even though he is "retired" he volunteers at a clinic for the uninsured. He is not a fan of the president or the ACA. So I asked him, what country has a good health care system. In his opinion there isn't one. Any country that has a single system rations health care. There are more MRI machined in New York City than all of Canada.

It's something like "democracy is a lousy form of government, but there is nothing better"

Nothing simple about it, is there.

[speedwagon]

New york/Canada population is about 4/1 so C anada has about the right number of mri machines considering that many of the MRIs in this country are just about making money. I too like others here was an union contractor and during that time our health care was self funded and we were able to negotiate charges with hospitals and doctors. The cost was still high but everyone was covered. The benefit to me was that my employees were able to spend their time worrying about my jobs and not how to pay medical bills. We were very competitive in spite or because of the higher labor cost. Now I have the very best care-- VA we all should be so well off!! Private enterprise my hinney.

[yellowss7]

New york/Canada population is about 4/1 so C anada has about the right number of mri machines .

 

Wrong.... Canada's population. 35 million. NYC population 8.3 million.

[slomove]

.......Any country that has a single system rations health care. .......

 

ANY system must ration healthcare somehow. There is only so much money to go around. If there would be a $20 million cure for cancer available, we surely would "ration" it or go broke.

 

And as mentioned above, a bunch of people have to pay for the zillion MRI machines in NYC, another bunch won't be able to benefit without insurance and another smaller bunch is going to become rich with it. The Canadians may not be able to get their regular hemorrhoid MRI but since their life expectancy is 3 years longer than here in the US they are probably O.K.

 

Honestly, I would rather have it rationed by a government bureaucrat than an insurance claims manager whose bonus depends on claims rejected.

[nick47]

I don't think we're in danger of having healthcare rationed in this country, at least no more than it already is. If they need more money, they'll find a way to get it. They always do.

 

I'm curious though about a $20 million cancer cure. Who gets that money?

[slomove]

I don't think we're in danger of having healthcare rationed in this country, at least no more than it already is. If they need more money, they'll find a way to get it. They always do.

 

I'm curious though about a $20 million cancer cure. Who gets that money?

 

Well, the $20 million cancer cure was just an example of what would make the situation obvious. I am not aware that exists or affected people would ransack the pharmacies at gunpoint to get it.

 

My point was that healthcare is already rationed here, one way or the other. Your health insurance (assuming you have one), even if gold plated won't pay for everything you like or need or may have life time and other limits.

 

Given the exorbitant amount of money that flows into the system, the expense limits in the US are obviously quite generous but the question is if we really need to spend that money and be just as healthy. For my part, I could use some of the $12,000 that my employer spends annually on the company part of my health plan for something else.

 

For the whole country we spend way more per capita than anybody else (example $8600 in the US vs. $5600 in Canada) are less healthy and many people don't have any regular coverage. That is just insane.

[speedwagon]

WE are a third world nation and just not swift enough to see it. The barrons are in control and just let us vote.

[slngsht]

 

For the whole country we spend way more per capita than anybody else (example $8600 in the US vs. $5600 in Canada) are less healthy and many people don't have any regular coverage. That is just insane.

 

Due to our healthcare system? Jumping to a lot of conclusions there.

[slomove]

Due to our healthcare system? Jumping to a lot of conclusions there.

 

I did not say that. I know there are many factors at play.

 

But I think it is fair to say the ton of money that is spent in the US does apparently not help us live longer or be healthier. The waste in the current "system" is quite obvious and its growth rate is unsustainable. Unfortunately the ACA does not do much to reduce it (at least in the short term) but IMO better than doing nothing and watch the industry suck up more and more of people's wealth or go uninsured.