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Everything posted by Croc
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Thats one of the most common designations for a USA Caterham kit - it surfaces frequently. I had a 2003 Caterham with similar designation. The only other things I would expect to see on this Caterham are "3" for S3 or "O" for Other, both of which can also appear in comparable USA kits. An approach could be made to the Caterham historian to see what the archives have on this car but that just usually gives a build sheet with the same VIN. It mostly never explains why a VIN was coded the way it was by the factory.
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The Regular Summary of Classified Ads of Se7ens Found For Sale
Croc replied to Croc's topic in Cars For Sale
Week Beginning March 31, 2024 USA7s Classified Ads of Se7ens for Sale https://usa7s.net/ips/forum/26-cars-for-sale/ Still plenty of cars for sale on the USA7s classifieds. A well sorted Birkin from a long time owner. A few Caterhams. A near new and sorted Stalker AXR available. New Ads Found This Week Caterham 360S and 1600 S3 https://rockymountaincaterham.com/inventory/ Westfield https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/412840508129797/ Birkin https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/296067306849485/ Caterham https://bringatrailer.com/listing/caterham-super-7-4/ Repeat Ads From Prior Weeks Stalker AXR https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/418039880683991/ Caterham - 420R https://rockymountaincaterham.com/inventory/ Lotus 7 S2 https://www.motorclassiccorp.com/used-vehicle-1962-lotus-super-7-c-150/ and here https://www.ebay.com/itm/355589106868?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=4m1yw6uvr36&sssrc=2047675&ssuid=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY and here https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/398463026214290/ Westfield Seight https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/271475399262057/ Lotus 7 S2 https://motorsportsmarket.com/racecars/lotus-super-seven/ Westfield https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/westfield/se/2610959.html and here https://www.ebay.com/itm/166645741969?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=fbJmRN0DTES&sssrc=2047675&ssuid=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY Caterham https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/caterham/super-7/2767387.html Westfield Pre-Lit https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/listing/1983-westfield-lotus-taylorsville-nc-2778021 Birkin https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/listing/1967-lotus-7-new-rochelle-ny-2767880 Replica https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/710742907584046/ Birkin https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/954489739128791/ Locost https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/897203795271412/ Replica https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/326226250472080/ Dutton https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/670676918463658/ and here https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1077945503561717/ Replica https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/7372499592813693/ Canadian Ads for Se7ens Locost Project https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/295420320065513/ and here https://www.kijiji.ca/v-classic-cars/vancouver/lotus-super-7-and-new-mazda-13b-rotary-engine/1676891793 Locost Drive train for sale https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/720905223266813/ Locost V8 https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/2094845430887828/ Westfield https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1331025174227653/ Caterham https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/2050719618611304/ and here https://www.kijiji.ca/v-classic-cars/markham-york-region/caterham-lotus-super-7-concours-condition/1677025176 Exocet https://www.autotrader.ca/a/mazda/miata mx-5/chelsea/quebec/19_12807617_/?showcpo=ShowCpo&ncse=no&orup=55_11_57&pc=M4B 2J8&sprx=-1 Eva Beva Project https://www.kijiji.ca/v-classic-cars/mississauga-peel-region/1985-eve-beva/1674367159 Westfield https://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/lethbridge/2016-westfield-lotus/1671103155 Caterham https://7cars.ca/cars-for-sale/caterham-s3-360.htm -
Wanted, a half hood (hood sticks on order)
Croc replied to theDreamer's topic in Parts For Sale / Wanted
Have you tried the old time Caterham dealers like Rich at Kampena Motors or Josh at Rocky Mountain? The old parts stores sometimes have treasure hiding inside. -
Brake lights - usual issue is the pressure switch in the pedal box. Turn signals - usually dash toggle switch contact points Temp gauge - the Caerbont/Smiths gauges are not the best but even so check the sender unit first as they are well known for failing. Clicking sound - its should be the fuel pump. Should also hear a faint whine at idle. Think about getting a spare at this stage since you probably have the original one in the car.
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Welcome to USA7s Daniel!
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The Regular Summary of Classified Ads of Se7ens Found For Sale
Croc replied to Croc's topic in Cars For Sale
Week Beginning March 24, 2024 USA7s Classified Ads of Se7ens for Sale https://usa7s.net/ips/forum/26-cars-for-sale/ Some new options surfacing this week - two well priced and sorted Stalkers - both in red! A number of Caterhams, a project chassis, plus a restored Lotus 7 S2 are also for sale. New Ads Found This Week Westfield Pre-Lit https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/listing/1983-westfield-lotus-taylorsville-nc-2778021 Replica https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/326226250472080/ Palatov D2 (somewhat se7en-ish) https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2014-palatov-d2-4/?utm_source=dm&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=2024-03-23 Repeat Ads From Prior Weeks Stalker AXR https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/418039880683991/ Caterham - 420R https://rockymountaincaterham.com/inventory/ Lotus 7 S2 https://www.motorclassiccorp.com/used-vehicle-1962-lotus-super-7-c-150/ and here https://www.ebay.com/itm/355560451092?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=4m1yw6uvr36&sssrc=2047675&ssuid=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY and here https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/398463026214290/ Birkin Project https://www.copart.com/lot/79700493/2010-lotus-coupe-ca-sacramento Lotus 7 S2 https://motorsportsmarket.com/racecars/lotus-super-seven/ Birkin https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/listing/1967-lotus-7-new-rochelle-ny-2767880 Caterham Kit https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/caterham/super-7/2767387.html Westfield https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/westfield/se/2610959.html and here https://www.ebay.com/itm/166645741969?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=fbJmRN0DTES&sssrc=2047675&ssuid=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY Locost Project https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1459536144943085/ Birkin https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/889448222931484/ Locost https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/897203795271412/ Locost https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/385047247476776/ Dutton https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/670676918463658/ and here https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1077945503561717/ Replica https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/710742907584046/ Replica https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/7372499592813693/ Westfield https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/271475399262057/ Canadian Ads for Se7ens Locost V8 https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/2094845430887828/ Locost Project https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/295420320065513/ Westfield https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1331025174227653/ Caterham https://www.kijiji.ca/v-classic-cars/markham-york-region/caterham-lotus-super-7-concours-condition/1677025176 and here https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/2050719618611304/ Westfield https://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/lethbridge/2016-westfield-lotus/1671103155 Caterham https://7cars.ca/cars-for-sale/caterham-s3-360.htm -
I slide my foot underneath the clutch pedal as a rest - not an option for you?
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Yes this is an "approved" method. Sometimes you can adjust the spacers in the pedal box to move them around on the spindle from which the pedals hang. Failing that then you bend the pedal arm. Even so I have always found it incredibly difficult to heel and toe in my CSR. Much less difficult in the 420R.
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Black hides the oil stains from your car?
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The Regular Summary of Classified Ads of Se7ens Found For Sale
Croc replied to Croc's topic in Cars For Sale
Week Beginning March 17, 2024 USA7s Classified Ads of Se7ens for Sale https://usa7s.net/ips/forum/26-cars-for-sale/ Plenty of options for sale - Stalker, Caterham - completely assembled or partially. New Ads Found This Week Lotus 7 S1 https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1960-lotus-seven-2/ Caterham https://rockymountaincaterham.com/inventory/ Stalker https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/418039880683991/ Locost Project https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/915341150072986/ Replica/Locost https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/326226250472080/ Repeat Ads From Prior Weeks Lotus 7 S2 https://www.ebay.com/itm/355538936946?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=4m1yw6uvr36&sssrc=2047675&ssuid=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY and here https://www.motorclassiccorp.com/used-vehicle-1962-lotus-super-7-c-150/ and here https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/398463026214290/ Birkin Project https://www.copart.com/lot/79700493/2010-lotus-coupe-ca-sacramento Lotus 7 S2 https://motorsportsmarket.com/racecars/lotus-super-seven/ Caterham Kit https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/caterham/super-7/2767387.html Birkin https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/listing/1967-lotus-7-new-rochelle-ny-2767880 Westfield https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/westfield/se/2610959.html and here https://www.ebay.com/itm/166645741969?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=fbJmRN0DTES&sssrc=2047675&ssuid=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY Westfield Seight https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/271475399262057/ Birkin https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/889448222931484/ Locost https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/897203795271412/ CMC/Locost https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/385047247476776/ Replica https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/710742907584046/ Dutton https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/670676918463658/ and here https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1077945503561717/ Replica https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1274011583289508/ Locost Project https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1307240806616573/ Canadian Ads for Se7ens Caterham https://www.kijiji.ca/v-classic-cars/markham-york-region/caterham-lotus-super-7-concours-condition/1677025176 and here https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/2050719618611304/ Eva Beva Project https://www.kijiji.ca/v-classic-cars/mississauga-peel-region/1985-eve-beva/1674367159 Locost Project https://www.kijiji.ca/v-classic-cars/vancouver/lotus-super-7-and-new-mazda-13b-rotary-engine/1676891793 and here https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/295420320065513/ Westfield https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1331025174227653/ Caterham https://7cars.ca/cars-for-sale/caterham-s3-360.htm -
The Regular Summary of Classified Ads of Se7ens Found For Sale
Croc replied to Croc's topic in Cars For Sale
I like suggestions made by The Dreamer above. There is a lot of fraud on Facebook and Craigslist and Ebay. I have done all types of purchases over the years. Flown to see cars and sealed the deal. Bought internationally sight unseen. Survived Bringatrailer and many other in person auctions. Been absolutely annihilated after two bottles of red wine (thanks to some unsavory bad influencing members of USA7s!) and won on Ebay only to find out what I did when I see the email the next afternoon, bleary eyed and hung over. So I have tried it all. There is a map of USA7s members if you look at the top menu - anyone there available to see the car for you? You can pay for inspection services that are local to check the car for you. People do that all the time on BAT so a quick google will be your friend for this. Pull the Carfax to see if there is a lien. If there is then you know you need to get good assurances on how the money will settle. I have used escrow.com to do car transactions. Money released once conditions met - i.e. car picked up or title given to someone you trust. https://www.escrow.com/ -
Thanks for chiming in Josh. I thought that was your CSR? What cars is it up against? IMSA GT1 is like my BMW CSL race car?
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Its been around as long as 10 years on some cars. Its definitely not new. Its also increasingly difficult to turn all the data sharing off. In some jurisdictions, law enforcement have access to the data. This GM case is just going to be another class action in the courts. Those OBDII dongles that companies like Progressive and GEICO pitch on the promise of saving more money should never be used unless you drive like Miss Daisy. In any city, you get lots of jerky driving simply because you have to manage the idiotic traffic around you. Thats just giving the insurer more excuse to charge more premium for an environment you cannot control. The data I get through work shows any metro driver will be charged more and rural drivers charged less premiums. Net effect is a decent uplift in money charged at the overall insurance company - good for revenue. Where this will end up over time is all your auto driving data will be shared with governments and insurers and relevant other parties and there will be no opt out. Enforcement of driving rules will end up being electronic in the end. Certain commercial vehicles are already there. May take 20 years to get there for the rest of us but the trend is clear now.
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The Regular Summary of Classified Ads of Se7ens Found For Sale
Croc replied to Croc's topic in Cars For Sale
Ebay was not live last weekend but the car is also listed here: https://www.motorclassiccorp.com/used-vehicle-1962-lotus-super-7-c-150/ -
The Regular Summary of Classified Ads of Se7ens Found For Sale
Croc replied to Croc's topic in Cars For Sale
Thanks - will update -
The Regular Summary of Classified Ads of Se7ens Found For Sale
Croc replied to Croc's topic in Cars For Sale
Week Beginning March 10, 2024 USA7s Classified Ads of Se7ens for Sale https://usa7s.net/ips/forum/26-cars-for-sale/ There are a number of cars recently listed: A partially assembled great spec Caterham 420R A new and sorted Stalker M-Spec AXR Brand new Caterham 420R kit A restored 1961 Lotus 7 S2 Plus there are a number of older model se7ens for sale. Plenty of choice out there. New Ads Found This Week Locost / Replica https://www.ebay.com/itm/126364781237?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=GuWugxnSTxG&sssrc=2047675&ssuid=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY Locost Project https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/915341150072986/ Locost https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/764231078676237/ Repeat Ads From Prior Weeks Caterham Kit https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/caterham/super-7/2767387.html Birkin https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/listing/1967-lotus-7-new-rochelle-ny-2767880 Westfield https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/westfield/se/2610959.html and here https://www.ebay.com/itm/355459002029?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=fbJmRN0DTES&sssrc=2047675&ssuid=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY Lotus 7 S2 https://www.motorclassiccorp.com/used-vehicle-1962-lotus-super-7-c-150/ Birkin Project https://www.copart.com/lot/79700493/2010-lotus-coupe-ca-sacramento Lotus 7 S2 https://motorsportsmarket.com/racecars/lotus-super-seven/ Dutton https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1077945503561717/ and here https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/670676918463658/ Locost https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/402944772407890/ CMC / Locost https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/385047247476776/ Locost Project https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1307240806616573/ Locost Project https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/324557266627653/ Replica https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/7372499592813693/ Locost https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/897203795271412/ Replica https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/710742907584046/ Locost https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/910449053640139/ Westfield Seight https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/271475399262057/ Canadian Ads for Se7ens Westfield https://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/lethbridge/2016-westfield-lotus/1671103155 Caterham https://7cars.ca/cars-for-sale/caterham-s3-360.htm Caterham https://www.kijiji.ca/v-classic-cars/markham-york-region/caterham-lotus-super-7-concours-condition/1677025176 and here https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/2050719618611304/ Locost Project https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/295420320065513/ Westfield https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/2215792331961198/ -
I know who you are referring to. Talked to him a very long time ago.
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Hi Phil - Do you know who this was? I guess you were doing photography for the day at the circuit? CSR260s are pretty rare beasts. I was not aware of another one in the North East.
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Registering used Caterham in New York
Croc replied to Cboulderer's topic in General Sevens Discussion
Do they accept no windscreen - present the car with an aeroscreen? No need for padded visors then. -
Caterham CSR front suspension rocker bearing modification
Croc replied to repsna's topic in General Tech
Welcome to USA7s Chris! The only place I know for the OEM bearing and spigot is Caterham who sell it integrated with the rocker arm here https://caterhamparts.co.uk/csr/4770-rocker-assembly-front-csr-inc-bush-spigot.html I would call them directly as it only shows one part available which is not helpful when you are going to need two! Hans Per developed his solution which he explained in the first post of this thread. I am lucky as my CSR has not developed this problem yet - I checked it as part of my winter maintenance. I owned my CSR since new in 2010. -
The Regular Summary of Classified Ads of Se7ens Found For Sale
Croc replied to Croc's topic in Cars For Sale
Week Beginning March 3, 2024 USA7s Cars For Sale Classifieds https://usa7s.net/ips/forum/26-cars-for-sale/ There are a good number of se7ens recently listed for sale by owners on this page: A near new fully sorted Stalker at a very keen price Two new Caterham 420R kits - one partially assembled A new Caterham 360R kit A high spec Caterham 485 New Ads This Week CMC / Locost https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/385047247476776/ Repeat Ads From Prior Weeks Birkin https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/listing/1967-lotus-7-new-rochelle-ny-2767880 Caterham https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/caterham/super-7/2767387.html Locost https://www.ebay.com/itm/176232271985?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=f7M5NAjFQsa&sssrc=2047675&ssuid=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY and here https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/402944772407890/ Lotus 7 S2 https://www.motorclassiccorp.com/used-vehicle-1962-lotus-super-7-c-150/ Birkin Project https://www.copart.com/lot/79700493/2010-lotus-coupe-ca-sacramento Lotus 7 S2 https://motorsportsmarket.com/racecars/lotus-super-seven/ Westfield https://www.ebay.com/itm/355459002029?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=fbJmRN0DTES&sssrc=2047675&ssuid=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY and here https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/westfield/se/2610959.html Locost https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/910449053640139/ Locost Project https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/324557266627653/ Birkin https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/7136612709790847/ Dutton https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1077945503561717/ and here https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/670676918463658/ Locost https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/897203795271412/ Locost Project https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1307240806616573/ Replica https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/7372499592813693/ Westfield https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/271475399262057/ Canada Westfield https://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/lethbridge/2016-westfield-lotus/1671103155 Caterham https://7cars.ca/cars-for-sale/caterham-s3-360.htm Caterham https://www.kijiji.ca/v-classic-cars/markham-york-region/caterham-lotus-super-7-concours-condition/1677025176 and here https://www.autotrader.ca/a/caterham/super 7/vaughan/ontario/19_12525939_/?showcpo=ShowCpo&ncse=no&orup=2_3_3&sprx=-1 and here https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/2050719618611304/ Locost Project https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/295420320065513/ Superformance S1 https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/832452085194612/ Westfield https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1331025174227653/ and here https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/2215792331961198/ -
Lets keep in mind there is no one definition of handling. What handles well for each of you, likely may not be as good for any other individual in this thread. The current 911 is a great case for this. With the Porsche Active Steering System option (Porsche Ass? Probably another acronym?) where the rear wheels steer in a coordinated fashion to the front wheels, the intent was to make the 911 more lively, active and nimble. What I found is it was too nervous, unsettled and gave exactly the impression Matt Farah used to describe the Caterham - (paraphrasing) front end disconnected from back end/uncoordinated. And its not just me who thinks this, as I have heard a very experienced Porsche race instructor say the exact same thing. Yet a team of very experienced Porsche factory engineers dialed this feature into the model and thought it was good. Who is right? All of us, as we all have different expectations for how a car should handle. The car is just a dumb animal that reacts to our clumsy inputs. The level of electronic driver assistance has changed car character over time and made them somewhat all similar. I'm old school. I grew up learning to drive around the inherent problems in a car to make it go as fast as possible without any form of driver aids. So I am wired to trust me before I trust the car. The first time I drove a car with active suspension on a race track (a Caterham at Donington), I fought the effing thing for 10 laps until I came in and was given a good bitch slapping by the engineer that I needed to trust the car and let it go without fighting to control it. Once I overcame that mental issue (and trust me it was a big one), it was a revelation - it was genuinely better and much faster than the car without active suspension. Then again if you have ever selected the sport steering option in a new BMW then you know an engineer screwed up badly! Whether you agree or disagree with the journalist is irrelevant. He is a very experienced driver. He is quite a good communicator of what he is feeling and has identified an essential part of the car's character that struck him as important to communicate and it is definitely something a potential owner or casual reader should think about. Not every car journalist is as good at doing that.
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I think it is a valid comment relating to De Dion rear end cars. I can understand the sensation. I would not use the same words. Different people describe it different ways. Some say the De Dion is lively. Others say it is sensitive or unsettled or active. Some people like that and others do not. As I think of the problem, it derives from the inability of the De Dion rear end to absorb bumps or rough surfaces without transmitting some of the forces through to the chassis and rear end grip. As a result, the bumps unsettle the rear and makes it hard to put down power or sustain rear end grip in certain circumstances. I want to stress this is primarily a road observations where rough surfaces and camber changes make it more pronounced. On a race circuit, the smooth surface means this is a non-event for the most part unless you are running over kerbs. The feeling is either accentuated or suppressed by the suspension firmness. Softer suspension makes it far less pronounced. I know the journalist was driving a 420R but it does not say which suspension option out of the 4 was selected (road, sport, track, race)? The CSR does overcome this handling characteristic through its independent rear end. The CSR feels and drives as if it is a much heavier car. However, it was not as sales successful as the regular De Dion Caterham as: 1) It was a lot more expensive to make 2) A lot of people did not like the less active feel it gave on the road. The design limitations of the De Dion rear end cars are really evident if you drive a 620R. It just struggles to put the power down, even on a race circuit. The power overwhelms the rear end design - and not in a good way. The 420R its somewhat there but not especially intrusive. By the time you get down to a 310S, its unobtrusive. This topic is an illustration of why I have always felt the best handling Caterhams are those with softer suspension as this gives the ability to absorb bumps and rough surfaces that would otherwise throw a Caterham offline.
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The Regular Summary of Classified Ads of Se7ens Found For Sale
Croc replied to Croc's topic in Cars For Sale
That Lotus 6 for sale is the one I saw at the British Motor Museum in November last year. The article on that trip is in the articles section. Photos of the Lotus 6 I took at the time: